I think he is right! How did we not see it before?
What about the number line, tell me at which point it stops.
What about the number line, tell me at which point it stops.
A conundrum if you will.
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What you're contending is that infinity doesn't exist across space, but you're forgetting that it exists in both space AND time. Either way, I myself can't say if there is such a thing as infinity or not. To paraphrase Christopher Hitchens, as I do every time I find a topic about infinity, if it should be undeniably discovered either that the universe was finite or infinite, I should find either conclusion equally mindblowing.
Half Point. Since we break the loop by entering. But, like I said from the parts you cut, assuming that something MAY be, because you can't see it, is a Logical Fallacy.Alipax said:
EDIT: Yeah, not the part you edited. The second post. Sorry, they got mixed into my brain.
ive gotta headache now. i really enjoyed this thread lol makes you think.
i believe nothing lasts forever.
i believe nothing lasts forever.
People can talk all they want about the universe being infinite, time being infinite, e.t.c., but really, are any of us in any sort of position to be saying these things with any kind of authority? Any talk of the "finite"-ness or "infinite"-ness of time or space is merely talking speculation.
Infinity is an IDEA. Regardless of its physical manifestations, I can still count into infinity, it is something that I can think about, so it DOES exist as an IDEA. It is impossible to empirically observe, since you cannot measure something that is infinite.
Infinity is an IDEA. Regardless of its physical manifestations, I can still count into infinity, it is something that I can think about, so it DOES exist as an IDEA. It is impossible to empirically observe, since you cannot measure something that is infinite.
Could be considered infinite if it's expanding at a higher speed than that needed to reach its edge. In the same way it's 'impossible' to get into space without a means of attaining the escape velocity. My two pennies, anyway .
Things can be conceptually infinite, take Zeno's paradox for instance:Alipax said:
In order to cross X I must cross X/2, in order to cross X/2 I must cross (X/2)/2, in order to cross (X/2)/2 I must cross ((X/2)/2)/2 ad infinitum.
It puzzled philosophers for ages since it predicates that movement is impossible because in order to get from A to B I must always cross half the remaining distance.
Yeah, we do. As light moves further away from us it stretches its spectrum and 'red-shifts'. Observation stations have noticed that sections of light from specific parts of the universe are moving further into red-shift so they must be moving away from us. There's also some jibber jabber about cosmic microwave background radiation, but I'm a doc (well okay, I'm not yet) not an astronomer.Frozen Donkey Wheel2 said:
But the universe is expanding, Scientific American did a special report on quantum physics last month which was all predicated on the concept of an expanding universe, I'd post here in spoiler tags but that'd be illegal and I cba to scan it.
oddly enough, I said the exact same thing to my father yesterday.
so yes, I do think this is true.
so yes, I do think this is true.
I would say that infinity is one of those things that we can only understand through some other medium, like mathematics. Just like we can't see a fourth spatial dimension except by mathematical translation, there are aspects of reality that we never evolved the capacity to perceive with our senses. No matter how hard you try, you can't "see" infinity, because it goes on forever and the means we use to see do not. That does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist.
As far as the universe being infinite, that is difficult to say and your answer will depend on what cosmological theories you subscribe to. Some people imagine that the universe is infinite emptiness, and that the stuff we see is simply flying through that emptiness. But some people have an idea called Dark Energy or Vacuum Energy, which is basically the "cost of having space." According to Quantum Field Theory, every fundamental field must be quantized to every point in space--for example, the gravity of planet Earth exerts a minute but definitely real and quantifiable effect on the entire rest of the universe, and on every point within it. It doesn't affect things on a large scale beyond a certain distance (the old inverse square law), but it affects everything to some degree.
The universe appears to be expanding, and therefore this Dark Energy is thought to exert a negative pressure effect (that is, it pushes everything apart). However, if the universe were infinite, then there would be infinite Dark Energy as well, and the universe would be accelerating apart infinitly fast, which means we would have experienced the Big Rip already. The fact that there is a universe at all would imply that it is finite, that there is a limit to the amount of Dark Energy out there.
For another weird brush with infinity, read about these things called Fractals. You can find images of them on the internet because they are very pretty and interesting to look at. They are infinitely complex mathematical objects--if you graph them, you can zoom in on any section and you will keep finding detail no matter how far you zoom in. Likewise, you can zoom out and you will keep finding bigger and bigger structures that incorporate what you see at first. It is also interesting to note that you tend to see a trait called self-similarity--that is, the fractal seems to repeat its patterns as you zoom in and out, repeating them at all different scales. Many objects in nature exist as fractals--shorelines, sponges, etc. Basically, they are infinity contained within a finite space. A fractal sponge has infinite surface area but finite volume. A fractal line, like a Koch Snowflake, is infinitely long but is a closed loop.
Whatever its true nature is, it is a wonderfully fascinating universe we live in!
As far as the universe being infinite, that is difficult to say and your answer will depend on what cosmological theories you subscribe to. Some people imagine that the universe is infinite emptiness, and that the stuff we see is simply flying through that emptiness. But some people have an idea called Dark Energy or Vacuum Energy, which is basically the "cost of having space." According to Quantum Field Theory, every fundamental field must be quantized to every point in space--for example, the gravity of planet Earth exerts a minute but definitely real and quantifiable effect on the entire rest of the universe, and on every point within it. It doesn't affect things on a large scale beyond a certain distance (the old inverse square law), but it affects everything to some degree.
The universe appears to be expanding, and therefore this Dark Energy is thought to exert a negative pressure effect (that is, it pushes everything apart). However, if the universe were infinite, then there would be infinite Dark Energy as well, and the universe would be accelerating apart infinitly fast, which means we would have experienced the Big Rip already. The fact that there is a universe at all would imply that it is finite, that there is a limit to the amount of Dark Energy out there.
For another weird brush with infinity, read about these things called Fractals. You can find images of them on the internet because they are very pretty and interesting to look at. They are infinitely complex mathematical objects--if you graph them, you can zoom in on any section and you will keep finding detail no matter how far you zoom in. Likewise, you can zoom out and you will keep finding bigger and bigger structures that incorporate what you see at first. It is also interesting to note that you tend to see a trait called self-similarity--that is, the fractal seems to repeat its patterns as you zoom in and out, repeating them at all different scales. Many objects in nature exist as fractals--shorelines, sponges, etc. Basically, they are infinity contained within a finite space. A fractal sponge has infinite surface area but finite volume. A fractal line, like a Koch Snowflake, is infinitely long but is a closed loop.
Whatever its true nature is, it is a wonderfully fascinating universe we live in!
Ok, I have to point out that the mirror example is more based on the properties of light than the concept of an infinite loop. Aside from that, there are many reasons humans will never be able to comprehend the universe as a whole but because of that it's impossible to say whether or not it is infinite.
I have to disagree with you here, just because the universe conceivably could have a limit does not mean that it is bound by the same rules as earth... it is entirely possible that there is a bubble of existence that is our entire universe and that there is in fact nothing beyond it. Just because we lack the knowledge and experience to describe it doesn't mean its not possible, it just means we haven't figured it out yet.Frozen Donkey Wheel2 said:
Black holes have infinite gravity.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the the universe." -Albert EinsteinAlipax said:
That is one of those "theoretical infinities". If the circumstances were right it would be infinite.Alipax said: