A different type of tax

[Trunkage]

So Australia made Google and some news sites make a deal to pay journalists for their work. I can’t remember the article number but something similar was proposed in the EU - sites and social media had to pay a charge to link news

Treasurer hails deals between publishers and Google a "world first" for original journalism

www.9news.com.au

Look, we had a tax the rich thread. Is this maybe a different way of ‘taxing’ tech companies? Forcing them to pay for thing like news? Also, not tax at all because it’s just going to go into Murdoch and Packers pockets rather than workers. I don’t think this is going to cure anything but still wanted to hear some thoughts

 

[Agema]

So Australia made Google and some news sites make a deal to pay journalists for their work. I can’t remember the article number but something similar was proposed in the EU - sites and social media had to pay a charge to link news

Look, we had a tax the rich thread. Is this maybe a different way of ‘taxing’ tech companies? Forcing them to pay for thing like news? Also, not tax at all because it’s just going to go into Murdoch and Packers pockets rather than workers. I don’t think this is going to cure anything but still wanted to hear some thoughts

This isn't a tax as such. The point here is the belief that Google "piggy-backs" off news services by showing their content whilst keeping the advertising revenues, and this is particularly harmful to local news who are deprived of income to keep their operations going. Thus this is really about trying to improve the viability of (local) journalism.

 

[Trunkage]

This isn't a tax as such. The point here is the belief that Google "piggy-backs" off news services by showing their content whilst keeping the advertising revenues, and this is particularly harmful to local news who are deprived of income to keep their operations going. Thus this is really about trying to improve the viability of (local) journalism.

Yes. It's not a tax

Here's the situation as I see it
2020 Oz: $0 tax off Google
2021 Oz: still $0 tax but now they have to pay $30m into the local economy. As far as I see it, there isn't a loophole to escape this payment

That has to be better than nothing

 

[Trunkage]

Facebook bans all Australian news. Also emergency service announcements

Facebook bans Australian publishers and people from sharing or viewing news content

www.9news.com.au

 

[Agema]

Facebook bans all Australian news. Also emergency service announcements

Facebook bans Australian publishers and people from sharing or viewing news content

www.9news.com.au

Oh, fuck Facebook. They can find a solution if they want, in fact they almost certainly have a contingency solution already designed. They just want to try playing hardball first to kill a law that might cost them money - not least because they know if they give in to one country, it gives precedent to everywhere else, too.

 

[Trunkage]

So, It may surprise you that Australians being banned from seeing news on Facebook has been taken rather well. Everyone's been reasonably happy not hearing from them.. except...

The federal government got rid of Family Courts about one week before an inquest into them was about to be released. That seems like a well thought out plan having families go to real court rather than mediation

 

[Agema]

So, It may surprise you that Australians being banned from seeing news on Facebook has been taken rather well. Everyone's been reasonably happy not hearing from them.. except...

Maybe I was over-optimistic about Facebook being able to deal with it.

It turns out Facebook has also cut off charities, government agencies, and even their own company's FB page. Yes, that's right people: Facebook Australia blocked Facebook.

 

[stroopwafel]

Maybe I was over-optimistic about Facebook being able to deal with it.

It turns out Facebook has also cut off charities, government agencies, and even their own company's FB page. Yes, that's right people: Facebook Australia blocked Facebook.

Can't say they aren't consistent.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Can't say they aren't consistent.

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

 

[Satinavian]

Didn't work in the EU and i don't think it is a good idea.

 

[Schadrach]

As far as I see it, there isn't a loophole to escape this payment

Delist any news site that demands payment to be allowed to link to them? Google isn't *required* to include any particular site on it's search engine...

Oh, fuck Facebook. They can find a solution if they want, in fact they almost certainly have a contingency solution already designed. They just want to try playing hardball first to kill a law that might cost them money - not least because they know if they give in to one country, it gives precedent to everywhere else, too.

Weren't you one of the "private companies can deplatform who they want" folks when the conversation regarded deplatforming conservatives or even actively working against alternative platforms?

 

[CaitSeith]

So Australia made Google and some news sites make a deal to pay journalists for their work. I can’t remember the article number but something similar was proposed in the EU - sites and social media had to pay a charge to link news

Treasurer hails deals between publishers and Google a "world first" for original journalism

www.9news.com.au

Look, we had a tax the rich thread. Is this maybe a different way of ‘taxing’ tech companies? Forcing them to pay for thing like news? Also, not tax at all because it’s just going to go into Murdoch and Packers pockets rather than workers. I don’t think this is going to cure anything but still wanted to hear some thoughts

The only thing this accomplish is to dissuade the Google and others from linking to Australian news articles. Besides, it's about paying to the news publishers, not to the journalists directly (how much money the latter will get depends of the goodness of the hearts from the former).

 

[Avnger]

Weren't you one of the "private companies can deplatform who they want" folks when the conversation regarded deplatforming conservatives or even actively working against alternative platforms?

A private company can deplatform anyone they want for almost any reason. As the owners of private property under the current US legal and economic systems, that's their right. That does not mean that they are always correct morally or ethically when exercising that right.

For example, I have a right to free speech. I would be well within my legal rights to curse out anyone I walk past outside; that doesn't mean I would be correct to do so, however. I might be correct to curse out some people (for example someone harassing me) but others I would be wrong to curse out (passersby minding their own business).

 

[Agema]

Weren't you one of the "private companies can deplatform who they want" folks when the conversation regarded deplatforming conservatives or even actively working against alternative platforms?

Yes, and I'd maintain that it is their right. I don't however have to respect them for it.

After all, they have been incredibly swift and aggressive in deplatforming news services in Australia rather than help fund the journalism they make money off. Particularly compared to, say, their willingness to block people undermining US democracy or whipping up genocides in developing world countries.

Just so we can be clear where their priorities lie.

 

[Trunkage]

Yes, and I'd maintain that it is their right. I don't however have to respect them for it.

After all, they have been incredibly swift and aggressive in deplatforming news services in Australia rather than help fund the journalism they make money off. Particularly compared to, say, their willingness to block people undermining US democracy or whipping up genocides in developing world countries.

Just so we can be clear where their priorities lie.

Compare that to the chances Alex Jones and Trump got...

 

[Gordon_4]

So, It may surprise you that Australians being banned from seeing news on Facebook has been taken rather well. Everyone's been reasonably happy not hearing from them.. except...

The federal government got rid of Family Courts about one week before an inquest into them was about to be released. That seems like a well thought out plan having families go to real court rather than mediation

I personally would be pleased as punch to see them de-platform themselves out of the country entirely.

 

[Trunkage]

Just wanna make sure I give.... credit... I suppose.. to Google. The $30mil that was initially talked about was the deal with Google and Murdoch for news links to be able to be used on Google. So the tech companies may be splitting on this, some willing to toe the line and other fighting it.

Also, a lot of tech companies are still miffed about the Australian laws put in place after the Christchurch shooting

 

[Gergar12]

Facebook bans all Australian news. Also emergency service announcements

Facebook bans Australian publishers and people from sharing or viewing news content

www.9news.com.au

Zuck the Cuck in action.

I mean I wish the EU would form their own tech companies, why did they miss the tech boom, and let China and the US invest heavily in it, and get high returns?

 

[Satinavian]

I mean I wish the EU would form their own tech companies, why did they miss the tech boom, and let China and the US invest heavily in it, and get high returns?

There are probably many reasons.

The market fragmentation and all the different languages make it hard for some service or some community to get really huge.

There was little trust in grandiose pure software internet based ideas after the .com bubble.

The EU and even more some countries within have always had much stronger customer data protection and most of those "tech companies" are based on collecting, using and selling such data.


It is also not that the EU lacks tech companies. It just lacks the whole "Big Data" industry and is generally quite distrustful towards it.

 

[Agema]

I mean I wish the EU would form their own tech companies, why did they miss the tech boom, and let China and the US invest heavily in it, and get high returns?

Firstly, the USA has Silicon Valley: a vast concentration not just of skills, expertise, labour supply, but also specialised tech finance that can fund things absurdly up the wazoo with so much money that they can expand madly without having to make a profit. China has been a closed shop that has effectively isolated and protected itself from competition to build up its own industry, where much European stuff has been bought out by foreign firms.

Europe has a pretty good tech industry, it's just not got so much in the way of homegrown massive multinationals.