A DOTA 2 question: Tips for melee?

[archaicmalevolence]

Also, I am amazed at your bad courier use coming from SC2, wtf? Just assing 1 to your hero and 4 to the courer mang, you should feel right at home microing that shit.

There's like 6 buttons on that fucking thing! Ain't nobody got time for that!

Really though, I'm still traumatized from that time I called it up during a bot game and they killed it. I don't want to be the guy who got the courier killed.

As for the TP, NEVER start with a TP, then ALWAYS have a TP after min 6 at most. The only one that can skip a TP scroll after that is your 1.

Yeah I think I'm going to start ditching the TP scroll. I think it's overkill early on, that's 135 I could spend on a stat item.

As for Iron will into HotD (the "better hat") humm... I wouldn't reccomend it if you are not a 1 and def not for a noob, BUT you should have decent enough micro, so if you buy it, just dominate a good neutral creep, asign it to a hotkey (mine is usually 2) and then at 53 secs use it to creepstack ancients.

When you say "a 1" I assume you mean alone in a lane?

A TP early game can be a devastating item if the opposing team does decide to dive onto another tower early game, which can happen. So it's not really wasted to buy one incase, even if there isn't one you'll still have a TP ready. NEVER skip your team as a 1, I would only really advocate for it as spectre, you always need that TP to help out teamfights, it doesn't matter if you're a hard carry who needs his farm if the enemy team is just endlessly pushing towers on the other side of the map and your team can't defend against it by themselves.

Don't always stack ancients each time you get a HotD, since not many heroes can farm a full stack of ancients solo, they need to co-ordinate with their team. It's typically better, and sometimes safer just to stack a medium or hard camp in your own jungle.

A "1" also means the priority for farming. Which goes from 1-5, with 1 being the highest (typically the hard carry), and 5 being a hard support.

When it comes to melee laning, even if the other hero is ranged and you're solo, or otherwise. It's best to be aggressive if you're a hero who can afford to, or will come out on top.
For example, there's no point being passive early game against a Drow, as a Juggernaut. Just walk right up to her and whack her away from the creep wave, show dominance in lane. Since, in that scenario, Drow is a much weaker hero, and is pretty squishy herself against any form of harass.
Although in other situations, e.g. 1 melee vs 2 range. All you can do is either sacrifice the lane, leech exp, try for ganks, or just farm the wave using any spells you have and/or pull the creep wave.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

A "1" also means the priority for farming. Which goes from 1-5, with 1 being the highest (typically the hard carry), and 5 being a hard support.

Ah. Makes sense. I lack the iterative game knowledge to make determinations like that on the fly. I have a general idea of some of the more prominent/obvious carries and supports, but it's not always clear to me, and occasionally I get a bunch of guys in my single draft and I'm like "Huh? Who are these guys?".

Hey, is Huskar a carry? Because that ************ seems to win games all by himself every time he shows up. They should change the name of the game to Huskar's Heroes.

For example, there's no point being passive early game against a Drow, as a Juggernaut. Just walk right up to her and whack her away from the creep wave, show dominance in lane. Since, in that scenario, Drow is a much weaker hero, and is pretty squishy herself against any form of harass.

I made the mistake yesterday of being aggressive early with Luna.

Luna is not a good harasser. =(

 

[archaicmalevolence]

Yes, Huskar is a carry. Although he's fairly weak in comparison to most others, The again, he's somehow better in pubs than in scrims.

 

[Zyst]

Melee laning at higher levels becomes about managing your Area of Influence and punishing like fuck when it is intruded. Then you want to create a 'presence' through the last step. A very good melee player with a decent support will be able to zone their opponents and a 1v1 melee vs ranged if he's good should be able to last hit while taking some damage but remember that 2 last hits ~~ 3 tangos which heal you back up easily. Also Quelling blade is very good on melee, specially when you are still getting the hang of last-hitting or if your enemy is denying you a bit too much. It's cheap and over the course of the game pays for itself pretty quickly (Especially on hard carries who go for a Battlefury, makes you farm all the faster)

Also this really fucking sucks but when queueing with my friend I notice sometimes people at lower skill levels don't buy couriers despite of whatever role they are. If it comes down to that even if you are the hard carry just buy the courier, with proper last hitting it doesn't even matter it'ss 150 gold, quite irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and won't gimp your early game massively (unless you are, for instance mid melee against mid ranged) in which case it might make stuff troublesome.

I am aware I wasn't very clear but it's something you naturally get a feel for as you play more and more. As a ultra-old-fag who has been playing DotA for over 7 years I guarantee that point will eventually come. You won't even realize but suddenly going vs a ranged as melee doesn't mean you are not going to get a single last hit in the first few minutes of the game.

If things are going like shit buy a helm of the dominator or any kind of lifesteal/sustain and farm the jungle as best as you can without forsaking your lane. Learn to last hit under the tower (incredibly vital, learn what % a tower hit will do to a creep at what point in the game, how many hits it takes to kill that creep and you'll for instance hit the creep once let the tower hit it twice and then hit it again for the gold) this is very easy to calculate because towers hit exactly at 1 second intervals.

Good luck man and hang in there, it takes a while to be able to enjoy 100% of DotA but it's definitely worth it.

EDIT: >Luna is not a good harasser. =(

You are so fucking wrong it hurts mate. She has one of the strongest nukes in the game.

 

[Tanakh]

Also, I am amazed at your bad courier use coming from SC2, wtf? Just assing 1 to your hero and 4 to the courer mang, you should feel right at home microing that shit.

There's like 6 buttons on that fucking thing! Ain't nobody got time for that!

Really though, I'm still traumatized from that time I called it up during a bot game and they killed it. I don't want to be the guy who got the courier killed.

As for the TP, NEVER start with a TP, then ALWAYS have a TP after min 6 at most. The only one that can skip a TP scroll after that is your 1.

Yeah I think I'm going to start ditching the TP scroll. I think it's overkill early on, that's 135 I could spend on a stat item.

As for Iron will into HotD (the "better hat") humm... I wouldn't reccomend it if you are not a 1 and def not for a noob, BUT you should have decent enough micro, so if you buy it, just dominate a good neutral creep, asign it to a hotkey (mine is usually 2) and then at 53 secs use it to creepstack ancients.

When you say "a 1" I assume you mean alone in a lane?

Ohh mang! Its been a while since I laughted sooo hard. Good God! Bots too SRTONK!!!11

Anyway, never press those buttons, i just reassing the hotkeys. Usually what i do is press 4 to select it (just once so my camera is still near my toon), press 8 to open the shop, buy whatev i need (usually pressing F5 multiple times to auto buy the items i queued to buy) then press G for it to Give it to me and if its flying press F to get them Fast. You buy and use it insanely fast and never left your toon alone (which is on 1 anyway, so just i stroke away).

As for the TP, you never start with it because it's an unsless item to fight, last hit, harass, get map vision or really ANYTHING you wanna do in the first 4-6 mins. Then if you are not 1 you NEED to have it, like ALWAYS, it is probably your first or second most important item, because with it you can teleport to ANY FUCKINGWHERE in your side and do cool pro shit like defending towers, pushing towers, prevent ganks, initiate ganks; it is especially imporant for a 3, 4 or 5, if you don't have one then you are either bad and should feel bad, you are amazingly good and doing important shit with other tools (like smoke ganks) or are playing for the lulz.

Ahh... 1 as in most farm. In DotA heroes are only labeled "carry" and "support" at the lowest level of game strategy (namely almost any mm pub game and even some pro games), Sven for example is either a carry or support, same as gyrocopter, necro and shit. Usually when talking "serious" tips and strat, one names the toons by:

1 - Most farm (usually ez lane carry)

2 - Second most farm (usually middle)

3 - Third most farm (usually solo offlaner or offensive jungler)

4 - Fourth most farm (usually the ez lane support creeppulling)

5 - Least farm (usually the ez lane carry babysitter)

This is however VERY flexible in roles(one of the things i love of DotA). Your mid can be most farm for example, your solo offlaner can be second most. The important think is to know what the fuck you are doing, if for example a 1 dies below a tower and takes 7-10 secs to die, then your support are either retards or dont care because a simple TP scroll could have turned that lost of a carry into a double kill for your team, it doesn't matter if you are playing 2-1-2 and you are the support of the other lane, you SHOULD have a TP for that (especially if your lane is going well).


Anyway, you wont see too much of this on mm pubs, and TBH playing the "right way" is probably less sucessful there than just going Drow, Luna, PL, Zeus or some shit and just playing greedy as fuck without giving a regard for strats. Still... i try to play to be better at the game, not to win, so I will do whatev the team needs even if they suck.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

You are so fucking wrong it hurts mate. She has one of the strongest nukes in the game.

I would sort of...poke at them...with my little...whirling thing. And then I would spontaneously explode. When she's first starting out she has less HP than a faberge egg. I'm assuming to harass with her you hang back and spam the nuke when you can, as opposed to trying to auto-attack from time to time? I like plinking.

Ohh mang! Its been a while since I laughted sooo hard. Good God! Bots too SRTONK!!!11

Oh give me a break. It was like my first or second time playing. I didn't even know what last hitting was, I just wailed on creeps and thought I was doing good.

In all honesty, I remapped the keys the moment I started playing and I still can't remember what I set the courier to, and I've been too lazy to check. It's something I do need to work on though. There's been a few times now when I knew damn well I should've been using the courier and instead had to lug my slow ass back to base to buy something.

Anyway, you wont see too much of this on mm pubs, and TBH playing the "right way" is probably less sucessful there than just going Drow, Luna, PL, Zeus or some shit and just playing greedy as fuck without giving a regard for strats. Still... i try to play to be better at the game, not to win, so I will do whatev the team needs even if they suck.

That is definitely way more coordination than I anticipate seeing in public games at my level. Frankly, I'm delighted if my teammate doesn't tower dive and die in the first 2 minutes.

 

[Tanakh]

That is definitely way more coordination than I anticipate seeing in public games at my level. Frankly, I'm delighted if my teammate doesn't tower dive and die in the first 2 minutes.

Dude, you are like a HS girl tempting me to just ignore my values! I would sooo just smurf a new account and play with you. Damn, i need to stop teaching at high schools and reading your posts.

Nway, hit me at Free Gold!! on stream and we can do some shit in the week if you want.

 

[Tanakh]

I would sort of...poke at them...with my little...whirling thing. And then I would spontaneously explode. When she's first starting out she has less HP than a faberge egg. I'm assuming to harass with her you hang back and spam the nuke when you can, as opposed to trying to auto-attack from time to time? I like plinking.

Ohh... well, no man, not like that. You want the nuke and the shit to hit harder (in that priority order), the bouncing whirling thing only in VERY situational cases when you know what the fuck you are doing. Your attack has shitty range and you are fragile, so use your attack only to last hit, use your nuke to harrass (and if you are decent use it to harrass when they want to last hit to prevent it), poke them just when it's super safe.

Only go for a kill after level 6 (and peferably when their creepwave is non exsistant) OR if they are being greedy and offering you their butthole.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Dude, you are like a HS girl tempting me to just ignore my values! I would sooo just smurf a new account and play with you. Damn, i need to stop teaching at high schools and reading your posts.

Nway, hit me at Free Gold!! on stream and we can do some shit in the week if you want.

Maybe I AM a High School Girl. You don't know. I could be! (spoiler = I'm not)

But no...don't smurf. Smurfing is evil. Smurfs belong on the third layer of hell, along with traitors and clowns.

 

[Brainwreck]

Pointy end is what you hit 'em with.

 

[Tanakh]

A TP early game can be a devastating item if the opposing team does decide to dive onto another tower early game, which can happen. So it's not really wasted to buy one incase, even if there isn't one you'll still have a TP ready. NEVER skip your team as a 1, I would only really advocate for it as spectre, you always need that TP to help out teamfights, it doesn't matter if you're a hard carry who needs his farm if the enemy team is just endlessly pushing towers on the other side of the map and your team can't defend against it by themselves.

Early? Yes, but we were talking bout starting items, not eary game ones. By 2-4 you should have your TP if stuff is going fine, 4-6 if shit is tought, but buying it as a starter is a waste of gold almost everytime.

As for skipping TP as 1, depends on what you are trying to achive. Luna might want it, but a PL, PA? Very debatable. Black is a good example of a pro carry player that doesn't want or uses TPs early or almost at all; i dont like his style but it works and I would think it works even better in pubs, the only time he will TP is for a fight he thinks its soo onesided it's free gold, after being racing for like 20 mins and having everything he wants OR if there is more EZ safe farm in a different lane.

 

[Tanakh]

Pointy end is what you hit 'em with.

Best post in the thread by far. Follow this advice and you will be golden.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

snip

As a melee hero, you CANNOT lane alone. You need to go with a ranged hero. If you can convince your team to get a support hero, such as Wisp, do it. If nothing else, cancel the enemies attempts to harass you. Grab ANY ability that either increases your ability to survive or ability to farm. Even if it is just something that allows you to eat neutral creeps, get it.

 

[archaicmalevolence]

snip

As a melee hero, you CANNOT lane alone. You need to go with a ranged hero. If you can convince your team to get a support hero, such as Wisp, do it. If nothing else, cancel the enemies attempts to harass you. Grab ANY ability that either increases your ability to survive or ability to farm. Even if it is just something that allows you to eat neutral creeps, get it.

Actually many melee heroes can lane alone, and are preferable if they do. Such as dark seer or beastmaster. It comes down to personal skill, hero skill-set, and who your opponent is. Also to be honest wisp is a horrendous hero to support in lane, as he has no real way early game to guarantee saving your carries life.

 

[Skin]

[/quote]

In all honesty, single draft is what got me interested in the game in the first place. I like the random/lotto nature of it. I'm a guy who always played random in SC2 ladder as well.

My understanding of CM is that it is for Very Serious People, and I'm not sure I want to go there with DOTA yet. I'll be playing SC2 again when HOTS launches and that's quite enough competitive stress.

EDIT: Oh right...the TP scroll. Uh...you will mock me, but I STILL don't have a good handle on the courier yet. The one time I resolved myself to finally use it someone else was monopolizing it.

Whatever floats your boat m8. Just know, you have never really truly experienced Dota until you play a 5 v 5 game with a team of your own against another team. The difference is indescribable.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

And the trick to avoiding Razor's Q is to not run away from him. Run towards him if you can. Razor's Q does less damage the closer you are to him, if you run away then you're going to take a ton. And if you're melee, you get to hit him too.

That is VERY interesting. I had no idea. They always try and run away! Tee hee!

Good tips all around, especially about not worrying to much about farm and maybe dragging the neutrals into the lane. Thanks for that.

I really need to rebind my damn keys and figure out what I mapped the courier to.

 

[archaicmalevolence]

Razor's Plasma Field isn't the most important thing to dodge about him though, as his static link is what makes him so powerful, he wants you to stay close to him. The hero is built around that skill. It's better depending on the enemy razor's skill build, to just get the heck away from him unless you have an ally nearby, and can intermediate between being inside his link range.

Also the short lane is Radiant bottom, and Dire top.

Although compared to agility melee heroes, strength heroes don't need as much comparable farm in general, there are still a few strength melee carries that need substantial farm, or they will fall behind quickly.

 

[Tanakh]

That is VERY interesting. I had no idea. They always try and run away! Tee hee!

Good tips all around, especially about not worrying to much about farm and maybe dragging the neutrals into the lane. Thanks for that.

I really need to rebind my damn keys and figure out what I mapped the courier to.

Careful with the creeppulling tough, if you don't know what you are doing chances are you will push the lane, screwing your lane balance and losing more than what you gained, this is a decent guide http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=377503 just read the "III.ii.ii Lane control". A common noob mistake is to think sinlge creep pulls will push the creeps toward your tower when that does exactly the opposite or that the main reason to creep pull is to get gold when it really has several aspects that being just one.

Also, patch day http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=72559 !! Some nice stuff there.

Finally... well, i am not sure i consider razor a good 1v1, most of the competitive level 1v1 heroes are just better (batrider, TA, QoP, a well microed Syllabear will either shut him down or just don't give a crap about him), it is however fun and easy to play. As for his wave of electicity, use your judgement, running towards him will diminish the damage but might be a far worse option.

Edit: I'll leave this here, because its a VERY nice decition tree and creep pulling just because you want or to get some gold is one of the sings of being BAAAAAAAAD:

I always lol when the opponents give me a free level 3 as DS in 1 vs 2/3 due doing stupid shit like single stack creep pull or doing bad basic lane control. Wich leads me to:

Actually many melee heroes can lane alone, and are preferable if they do. Such as dark seer or beastmaster.

A DS in a solo vs 2 lane should be lower/same level as the support, a DS vs a 3 lane should be totally shut down and be forced to leave or feed. Then again... that requires stuff like lane wards and good players on the support.

 

[DustyDrB]

Give Brewmaster a try. Why?

Enemy heroes will miss you. A lot.

He counters heroes who rely almost totally on right-clicking (Drow, Troll, Huskar, Viper, etc). And once you get your ultimate (which does require some microing, as it splits Brewmaster into three spirits who each have their own abilities), you are a monster in the mid-game. You taper off some towards the end, but you're still super tanky and the ult still has a couple stuns/disables (and those kind of abilities never stop being useful). Also, your Q ability does some heavy damage in an area around you and slows enemies' movement and attack speed (adding even more ability to counter right clickers).

Super fun hero. You do require some farm, though. Not as much as other heroes, but you still need some. I usually go with Arcane Boots over the recommended Phase Boots at least early on, since he does have mana problems.