A (fun?) philosophical thought experiment: Death Clocks

[SaikyoKid]

So I was driving home from work, and for me that's a good hour and change to get home. Now that's a good while for my mind to start thinking on things and one thing that popped back into my mind was an old music video I saw. I can't remember the band or the song, but in it there was a particular guy who saw clocks above peoples heads that ticked down to the exact moment they were about to die. My mind started to think about it more and then an interesting question popped into my head: What would it be like to live in a world where everybody knew the exact moment everyone else was going to die?

A world without any kind of order is nothing but chaos and discord, so here are some basic ground rules for how the world would work:

1. Everything is essentially the same except that now everybody is born with a digital timer above their heads that ticks down to the exact moment you're going to die. It doesn't interfere with everyday life, if you try to touch it your hand will just go through it and such, but everybody who looks at it, yourself included, can see it plain as day. There is no way to hide it and it only appears just after you are born.

2. Everybody is born with a random amount of time.

3. There is also no way of adding to it or taking away from it. If you try to get out of dying the way you were supposed to, the universe will simply kill you another way. If you do something stupid that would kill you in this world and you still have time left on your clock, you will still live but must live with the consequences. (i.e. If you were to lose a limb, you wouldn't die right away but would live out the rest of your time without said limb.)

4. You do, however, have a very limited control over how you die, specifically what you're doing beforehand. If you're in the city when your time is up, then there is a much larger spectrum of ways to go. If you want to specifically go in your sleep, you may want to buy a heavy dose of sedative to knock yourself out before the timer hits zero.

So I guess here's my basic question to my fellow Escapians: Would you want to live in such a world that death is no longer a surprise? I can think of a slew of pros and cons to such a place, but I'd rather people try to come up with some of their own. Plus, my post is already getting kinda big now... For those wondering, I came to my own conclusion that living in such a world wouldn't be such a bad thing in the long run.

TL;DR Would you be willing to live in a world where people could see how much time they and everybody else has to live?

 

[Dimitriov]

That sounds awful. As much as people have an innate curiosity for the world, the satisfaction of that curiosity requires mystery.

That is one mystery that I think it is best to leave alone.

 

[rayen020]

alot of people would start living their lives to the fullest. so thats good, but then theres like that moment where a baby is born and it has like three hours on it's clock... yeah no good.

for some people it would be good and make them live their life to the fullest. others i think it would probably drive them insane. and then there are the people who would try to make their clocks wrong by committing suicide or something...

 

[IzisviAziria]

Do the rules rules negate you being able to choose the specific way in which you die? It sounded like you're not supposed to have any control over it, according to the 3'rd rule, where he said, "If you try to get out of dying the way you were supposed to, the universe will simply kill you another way." which I am taking to mean that you are given a certain time/place/way to die, and you don't get control over it?

Either way, I'd probably prefer it. Think of all the cool shit you could pull off if you knew that this wasn't your time to die?

I pull this one every time I see this conversation pop up, but I'm gonna relate this one to Big Fish. For any that have seen, you'll know what I mean. For those that haven't, watch this, from 12:00-12:35

I pretty much just agree with everything the boy said.

 

[tthor]

this is a very interesting idea..

People would likely celebrate their funeral before they die, having a sort of sendoff party.

Death would probably be looked at with a lot more acceptance, tho the thought of seeing your life literally ticking away might drive some people mad, especially around the halfway-2/3rds of the way thru their time- bringing about a whole different sort of midlife crisis.

Preparing for a person's death would be made much simpler, as they would have time to get ready and prepare things - for example, if a government leader's time was ticking down, they'd have time to set up the next leader before the old leader dies.

 

[SaikyoKid]

Do the rules rules negate you being able to choose the specific way in which you die?

Wait, I think I misread that. In essence, you really won't have much control over the method of your demise. You will die in some fashion when your time is up. You can choose what you do in the last few moments before hand though, so for example if you really don't care too much about it you could be in the city. Plenty of opportunity for freak accidents and the like. If you'd like to go peacefully in your sleep though, you can always invest in heavy sedatives in your last hour or so and be asleep when your timer hits.

 

[SaikyoKid]

That sounds awful. As much as people have an innate curiosity for the world, the satisfaction of that curiosity requires mystery.

That is one mystery that I think it is best to leave alone.

But wouldn't people who have curiosity for the world know how to best spend their time on the world if they knew when it was up? I know there is a LOT in this world I'd love to go see and explore and if I knew just how finite my time was I think I would certainly do everything in my power to see it all.

 

[Eomega123]

How does this universe deal with those who try to commit suicide to beat the system? What if someone with decades left on the clock shoots themselves in the head, or detonates an atomic bomb, or duct tapes themselves to a space shuttle? You can only survive so much, no matter what that clock says. What if some people, confident in their temporary immortality, decided to catapult themselves to the moon, or go on a shooting spree somewhere with a 'shoot to kill' policy, or find out how much arsenic they can chug? The first thing that will happen when you establish these rules is people are going to find way to game the system.

 

[SaikyoKid]

How does this universe deal with those who try to commit suicide to beat the system? What if someone with decades left on the clock shoots themselves in the head, or detonates an atomic bomb, or duct tapes themselves to a space shuttle? You can only survive so much, no matter what that clock says. What if some people, confident in their temporary immortality, decided to catapult themselves to the moon, or go on a shooting spree somewhere with a 'shoot to kill' policy, or find out how much arsenic they can chug? The first thing that will happen when you establish these rules is people are going to find way to game the system.

Well, that's why the system will keep you alive regardless of what it is you're trying to do to get out of it. Shoot yourself in the head? You'd better enjoy those last couple of decades with a nice breeze going between your eyes. Blows off that atomic bomb? Well, you'd probably spend the rest of your time smeared on the pavement. Your body may only be able to survive so much, but your consciousness will still be around even if you're blown to bits.

Albeit, this is more just a thought experiment and there's no real way to test just how far such a system would be able to go. For the sake of argument though, lets just say that as long you've got time on your clock, your consciousness will still be attached to some remnant of your body. Even if it's at an atomic level. Maybe say whichever piece of your brain is still intact?

 

[Eomega123]

How does this universe deal with those who try to commit suicide to beat the system? What if someone with decades left on the clock shoots themselves in the head, or detonates an atomic bomb, or duct tapes themselves to a space shuttle? You can only survive so much, no matter what that clock says. What if some people, confident in their temporary immortality, decided to catapult themselves to the moon, or go on a shooting spree somewhere with a 'shoot to kill' policy, or find out how much arsenic they can chug? The first thing that will happen when you establish these rules is people are going to find way to game the system.

Well, that's why the system will keep you alive regardless of what it is you're trying to do to get out of it. Shoot yourself in the head? You'd better enjoy those last couple of decades with a nice breeze going between your eyes. Blows off that atomic bomb? Well, you'd probably spend the rest of your time smeared on the pavement. Your body may only be able to survive so much, but your consciousness will still be around even if you're blown to bits.

Albeit, this is more just a thought experiment and there's no real way to test just how far such a system would be able to go. For the sake of argument though, lets just say that as long you've got time on your clock, your consciousness will still be attached to some remnant of your body. Even if it's at an atomic level. Maybe say whichever piece of your brain is still intact?

The psychologists and doctors of this world are NOT going to be happy, seing as these humans can remain conscious without a functioning brain, pretty much invalidating everything they've ever concluded. Does the brain even serve a function in this world? (I know this is supposed to be a philosophical discussion, but the mechanics of this are really bothering me.)

 

[SaikyoKid]

The psychologists and doctors of this world are NOT going to be happy, seing as these humans can remain conscious without a functioning brain, pretty much invalidating everything they've ever concluded. Does the brain even serve a function in this world? (I know this is supposed to be a philosophical discussion, but the mechanics of this are really bothering me.)

I know, I'm trying to come up with some finite way of explaining how it'd work but I'm quite short on time and I'll admit I didn't really think that bit all the way through. I figured a world where chopping yourself in half and still having a good couple years ahead of you without immediate medical attention would sorta say it was a kind of different world to begin with, but I do see what you're trying to get at... Maybe for now lets say that your brain does the usual functioning of your body if it remains intact, but lets also say it contains your consciousness or your soul, so to speak. Even if you blow it to pieces or even basically obliterate the brain, your consciousness is still contained in a portion of it, in this case whichever portion the timer decides to stay above, until the time is over and done with. If you do harm yourself that badly, then I suppose you'd basically be stuck in a limbo state without any of your basic senses to interact with the outside world. Almost like a "I have No Mouth" kind of situation?

I hope that helps settle at least a few of your irks for a while. I do have to turn in for the night though, but if you still have some troubles with it, just quote me again. I'd love to work it out a little more. I have to admit, it is kinda fun to see how deep I can delve with it. ^^

 

[Berenzen]

It would not be as bad as a Machine of Death- if you haven't read that collection of shorts, I highly recommend you do.

That being said, it would be psychological torture in it's own sense, as people would try their damnedest to change their destiny. I mean, what would happen if you had 4 hours left on your clock and you shot yourself in the head, completely destroying your brains, therefore have no central nervous system, which drives our 'life'. What if you started to travel at the speed of light? Would the clock be relative to the universe, or to you?

Honestly, I would hate to live in a world that was like that, as the idea of not knowing when your are going to die is a huge motivating factor for humans, we try to escape it. If we know exactly when we die, the the idea that it is inevitable and unbeatable would kill human productivity and motivation.

 

[Astoria]

Isn't that sorta what that new movies about? In Time or whatever it's called? Anyway, I think that would be awful. It's better not knowing so you aren't living in fear all the time.

 

[Eomega123]

What about transhumanism, IE, augmentation and putting our brains into machines. Say a baby is born with an infinite timer, meaning his brain will be uploaded into a subatomic computer designed to survive the destruction of the universe and spark the creation of a new one. What if, seeing his infinite timer and deciding to mess with the system, he does not enter the computer, and his body is destroyed, but his conciousness travels alongside the computer to the new universe? What if a non-infinte timer person gets hooked up to a transhumanist machine? Does this timer apply to animals too, especially considering evolution? What about plants? Single cells? Does a braindead person still have a consciousness? What about 'dead' people who are brought back through the wonders of science? If the timer only measures consciousness, regardless of the destruction of the physical form, does it even matter to anyone besides that indiviual? I could cut your head off and, regardless of whatever that timer says, you're dead to the world. Is there a god? What is the meaning of life? My mind is full of fuck!

 

[Jonluw]

A set time of death implies a determinitstic universe, so I suppose such a world would lead to massive existentialism and depression.

Also, I imagine crowds would gather around any person who has little time left, which in turn would cause people with little time to stay inside.

I'd sort of want it just to feel like a shinigami though.

 

[Greedy_Smurph]

I think the video you refer to, OP, is...

<youtube=_JQiEs32SqQ>

Can anyone help me with the embedding

EDIT: Thanks Trigger!

 

[TriGGeR_HaPPy]

I think the video you refer to, OP, is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JQiEs32SqQ

Can anyone help me with the embedding

without the fullstop at the start.
(or you can use square brackets if you want...)

So, in your case, you'd type: <.youtube=_JQiEs32SqQ> or [.youtube=_JQiEs32SqQ]
again, without that first fullstop.

Should end up like this:
<youtube=_JQiEs32SqQ>

EDIT: Any time. ^_^

As for the topic at hand... No, I don't think I'd like to live in such a world. However, if I had to (for whatever reason), I agree with other people in that at least you could take advantage of it. If you know you're not going to die for years and years, why not go mountain climbing, or sky diving, etc? ^_^

 

[CrustyOatmeal]

there is a movie similar to what you described

<youtube=fdadZ_KrZVw>

 

[Supertegwyn]

I wouldn't love to live in that world. Would be somewhat horrible to know that every time I procrastinate I am just burning time towards my death.