A hypothetical question, especially for the atheists and skeptics in the audience...

Schadrach

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If you were forced to choose some person, place, thing, or event throughout all of human history as "most likely to have been the result of supernatural or divine influence (christian or otherwise)", what would it be?

No, you aren't allowed to choose "nothing, because I don't believe in that shit" as the whole point is to see what people end up picking when forced to actually choose, and that isn't an answer, it's a refusal to answer.
 

BathorysGraveland2

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Well, how the fuck can I answer it?! It's all well and good you saying I can't choose nothing, but there is no logical alternative. I do not believe in the divine, I do not believe in spirits or magic, or anything superstitious. So how can I say what is most likely to have happened from those things if I do not believe they exist in any shape or form? How?!
 

McMullen

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I think you might be misunderstanding what skeptic and atheist mean. Part of being a skeptic is not accepting explanations that rely on unprovable claims, which is what supernatural means. Being atheist is pretty similar with respect to the divine. Being skeptic or atheist simply doesn't support the idea that something is likely to have been supernatural; that's not one of the ways that we explain or understand things. I know you asked for answers, but the question simply doesn't apply to the people you're asking.

However, the question "What do you think is least likely to ever have a satisfactory rational explanation", is answerable. For me, it used to be the question of why anything at all exists. However, certain physics researchers such as Lawrence Krauss have been finding that the idea of "nothing" might actually be a mistake; in other words, it's possible that there's no such thing as nothing. Virtual particles and the impossibility of reaching absolute zero are some of the more familiar manifestations of this; even if you take out all the energy and matter from a volume, the volume will still be occupied by particles and thermal noise; they'll just be positive and negative, summing to zero energy. Things exist because it's a fundamental property of the cosmos that things must exist everywhere. This is by no means a solved problem yet, but it shows that we may have an adequate answer sooner than I used to think.

Now I suspect that the most unexplainable problem is the quest for the ultimate laws of physics, where everything about the laws of nature can be expressed as one equation. The history of physics so far seems to show that physics is fractal; Every new revolution improves things dramatically and is largely correct, but there's always a particular area where the theory breaks down and needs elaboration in order for the description of the universe to continue past the problem. This trend could very well be broken, but it is beginning to look like fully describing the universe could demand more resources and space then are contained in it, and every discovery is much harder than the last.
 

Elfgore

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Good ole' Bathory pretty much answered the question. But... if I really have to put an answer, I think I can think of one.

Divine Intervention has to be the only way Baka and Test hasn't yet gotten a season 3. There is no other possible explanation in existence on how such a hilarious show only got two seasons. Clearly, it's a conspiracy created by all religions on the planet to hurt our entertainment industry. I can't believe I've never thought of this before.
 

Queen Michael

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That people sponsored Uwe Boll's kickstarter is almost certainly the work of Satan.
 

broca

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I really can't think of a single thing from human history that fits, but if i look at all history the answer would obviously be the creation of universe.
 

Vegosiux

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Schadrach said:
No, you aren't allowed to choose "nothing, because I don't believe in that shit" as the whole point is to see what people end up picking when forced to actually choose, and that isn't an answer, it's a refusal to answer.
So basically, you're expecting us to not give the honest and truthful answer? Basically, you're expecting us to lie?

That's easy.

The invisible gnome on the top of my head was placed there by the Great Elder Ones. The beauty of it is in that you can't prove I don't really believe that is the most important event in human history.
 

LetalisK

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BathorysGraveland2 said:
Well, how the fuck can I answer it?! It's all well and good you saying I can't choose nothing, but there is no logical alternative. I do not believe in the divine, I do not believe in spirits or magic, or anything superstitious. So how can I say what is most likely to have happened from those things if I do not believe they exist in any shape or form? How?!
The same way a rail car isn't currently hurtling towards your mother on one track and another towards several fat men on the other but still able to answer that question. Jesus christ dude, it's a hypothetical.

OT: Creation of the universe would be my answer. Seems like something of sufficiently epic proportions for some divine influence to fuck around with.
 

LetalisK

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Vegosiux said:
Schadrach said:
No, you aren't allowed to choose "nothing, because I don't believe in that shit" as the whole point is to see what people end up picking when forced to actually choose, and that isn't an answer, it's a refusal to answer.
So basically, you're expecting us to not give the honest and truthful answer? Basically, you're expecting us to lie?

That's easy.

The invisible gnome on the top of my head was placed there by the Great Elder Ones. The beauty of it is in that you can't prove I don't really believe that is the most important event in human history, and I don't have to prove that I do.
No, he's asking you to treat a hypothetical question like a hypothetical question rather than an affirmation of fact.
 

Vegosiux

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LetalisK said:
The same way a rail car isn't currently hurtling towards your mother on one track and another towards several fat men on the other but still able to answer that question.
But I know what it would look like if a rail car was currently hurtling towards my mother on one track and another towards several fat men on the other; or at least I can paint a good mental picture of that. I've seen several rail tracks, fat people, rail cars, and of course, my mother. Not hard putting that into one picture.

(I'd still refuse to answer that hypothetical, or rather, I'd answer "I'd shoot/maim/roll my eyes furiously at the guy who is forcing me to choose, whichever applicable")

I do not know what I would be like if I was an entirely different person. Like, a different person, that has different thought processes. If I imagine I'm Batman, I'm still myself under that mask. But I can't imagine myself as a not-atheist, because I have never been a not-atheist and have no idea how my perception of reality would work if I was a not-atheist. Maybe I wouldn't even be here, reading this post.
 

LetalisK

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Vegosiux said:
But I can't imagine myself as a not-atheist,
Good, because he's asking the exact opposite and wants what an atheist would consider most likely. He's asking "If there was a divine influence, where would it most likely be?" which is not a question an atheist is incapable of answering any other way than "But there is no divine influence". Trust me, you're not betraying your beliefs by answering it.

Edit: And if you have no interest in answering a hypothetical as a matter of principle as it seems...what is the point of coming into a thread that says in the title "A hypothetical question"?
 

Vegosiux

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LetalisK said:
Good, because he's asking the exact opposite. He's asking "If there was a divine influence, where would it most likely be?" which is not a question an atheist is incapable of answering any other way than "But there is no divine influence". Trust me, you're not betraying your beliefs by answering it.
As an agnostic atheist, I would have to answer "No place we have ever seen, been to or known about", but that's basically the same thing as far as the OP's satisfaction with the answer goes, as I got the impression the question was asked in context of "stuff we do know about".

Edit: And if you have no interest in answering a hypothetical period...what is the point of coming into a thread that says in the title "A hypothetical question"?
That was more me taking a stab at overly simplistic hypothetical that give us an arbitrary decision with no reason to pick either of the options presented at all, or no reason not to pick any of the options not presented, really. Not an opposition to hypothetical in general. And sorry about the multiple negatives.
 

TheYellowCellPhone

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At what point in history do you think, OP?
Queen Michael said:
That people sponsored Uwe Boll's kickstarter is almost certainly the work of Satan.
Uwe Boll is the fucking greatest thing ever. His movies are outstandingly weird, but they're outstanding masterpieces at the same time.


We are blessed to have him in our presence.
 

kurokotetsu

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LetalisK said:
BathorysGraveland2 said:
Well, how the fuck can I answer it?! It's all well and good you saying I can't choose nothing, but there is no logical alternative. I do not believe in the divine, I do not believe in spirits or magic, or anything superstitious. So how can I say what is most likely to have happened from those things if I do not believe they exist in any shape or form? How?!
The same way a rail car isn't currently hurtling towards your mother on one track and another towards several fat men on the other but still able to answer that question. Jesus christ dude, it's a hypothetical.

OT: Creation of the universe would be my answer. Seems like something of sufficiently epic proportions for some divine influence to fuck around with.
But in accepting his hypothetical question I feel that I would be renouncing to my skeptical attitude if I thought that any event has a probability that isn't zero with oír any facts it si the same as admiting that there id the possibility that that thing exists, without any proof. At least that si wat I feel. But McMullen said it much better
 

lacktheknack

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Queen Michael said:
That people sponsored Uwe Boll's kickstarter is almost certainly the work of Satan.
This guy gets it.

There's a lot of serious/silly events to pick from (the father and son who survived riding a megatsunami in Alaska, the perfection of the moon covering the sun in a solar eclipse, the continued existence of North Korea's non-irradiated landscape, etc), but I'm going to go with the guy who got struck by lightning seven times, and the one time he dodged it, it struck his wife. Clearly someone is trying to get his attention.

Alternatively, the Bloop was actually Cthulhu turning over in his sleep.

I'm not sure why people are having such a hard time with this, but I'm religious, so maybe I'm just out of touch with my inner furious skeptic.
 

LetalisK

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kurokotetsu said:
LetalisK said:
BathorysGraveland2 said:
Well, how the fuck can I answer it?! It's all well and good you saying I can't choose nothing, but there is no logical alternative. I do not believe in the divine, I do not believe in spirits or magic, or anything superstitious. So how can I say what is most likely to have happened from those things if I do not believe they exist in any shape or form? How?!
The same way a rail car isn't currently hurtling towards your mother on one track and another towards several fat men on the other but still able to answer that question. Jesus christ dude, it's a hypothetical.

OT: Creation of the universe would be my answer. Seems like something of sufficiently epic proportions for some divine influence to fuck around with.
But in accepting his hypothetical question I feel that I would be renouncing to my skeptical attitude if I thought that any event has a probability that isn't zero with oír any facts it si the same as admiting that there id the possibility that that thing exists, without any proof. At least that si wat I feel. But McMullen said it much better
Much in the same way Superman vs Goku debates renounce the disbelief in either of those characters existing.
 

Queen Michael

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kurokotetsu said:
LetalisK said:
BathorysGraveland2 said:
Well, how the fuck can I answer it?! It's all well and good you saying I can't choose nothing, but there is no logical alternative. I do not believe in the divine, I do not believe in spirits or magic, or anything superstitious. So how can I say what is most likely to have happened from those things if I do not believe they exist in any shape or form? How?!
The same way a rail car isn't currently hurtling towards your mother on one track and another towards several fat men on the other but still able to answer that question. Jesus christ dude, it's a hypothetical.

OT: Creation of the universe would be my answer. Seems like something of sufficiently epic proportions for some divine influence to fuck around with.
But in accepting his hypothetical question I feel that I would be renouncing to my skeptical attitude if I thought that any event has a probability that isn't zero with oír any facts it si the same as admiting that there id the possibility that that thing exists, without any proof. At least that si wat I feel. But McMullen said it much better
Or as I like to put it:

Regardless of which event you mention, I as a skeptic feel that there's a 0% chance that the event in question involved anything supernatural or divine. So the question we're basically asked is "Of these events, which all have a 0% chance of being supernatural in any way, which one has the highest chance of involving something supernatural? Which 0% chance is the highest?" and the thing is, if the chance is always 0% then you can't pick a specific one.
 

kurokotetsu

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LetalisK said:
kurokotetsu said:
LetalisK said:
BathorysGraveland2 said:
Well, how the fuck can I answer it?! It's all well and good you saying I can't choose nothing, but there is no logical alternative. I do not believe in the divine, I do not believe in spirits or magic, or anything superstitious. So how can I say what is most likely to have happened from those things if I do not believe they exist in any shape or form? How?!
The same way a rail car isn't currently hurtling towards your mother on one track and another towards several fat men on the other but still able to answer that question. Jesus christ dude, it's a hypothetical.

OT: Creation of the universe would be my answer. Seems like something of sufficiently epic proportions for some divine influence to fuck around with.
But in accepting his hypothetical question I feel that I would be renouncing to my skeptical attitude if I thought that any event has a probability that isn't zero with oír any facts it si the same as admiting that there id the possibility that that thing exists, without any proof. At least that si wat I feel. But McMullen said it much better
Much in the same way Superman vs Goku debates renounce the disbelief in either of those characters existing.
Not the same. That hypothetical question doesn't go to one of my core believes. If I ignore that it is like asking me "If you were into bestiality, what kind of duck would you have relstions with?" It is asking me to go to a place I can't even imagine. This question isn't addressed to me, it is addressed to someone that isn't a skeptic at heart. It is not asking me to be me, it is asking me to be someone completely different, so it isn't different than saying "answer this as a complete stranger" which I may do, but I would be just Viviana a random answer.
 

Newtonyd

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Myself.

I've never found a morale system that I can follow as closely as my own. Thus, if I can choose a person to most likely be the chosen avatar of some other-wordly powers exerting themselves on humanity for their own good, I must choose myself.

Of course that's a pretty silly thing to believe, but I cannot think of a more honest answer to this hypothetical question.
 

DementedSheep

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The disappearance of all my pens and erasers. That shit must be supernatural. Clearly I have pissed of some spirit of an old accountant or something who decided to take revenge by fucking with my stationary.


I would give you a serious answer (well...more serious than that anyway) but at this moment I honestly can't think of anything.