A new religion is born!

[cuddly_tomato]

Religion makes a gap in this notion, it separates believers from non-believers, elits from underlings, thus making it impossible to achieve peace and equality.

But there is real reason it should. All it takes is for people of different faiths, religions, and beliefs to agree to get on and not try to overwhelm or destroy one another. Best way to achieve it is not to wipe out all religions bar for one (atheism). The answer is to remove religious belief (or lack of religious belief) from interfering in peoples lives. In other words, have complete religious freedom with no state sponsorship, promotion, or favouritism shown to any particular religion.

Kinda like what these people think [http://www.au.org/site/PageServer].

I could hardly agree, it seems to me that life is meaningless without an afterlife. I would also like to note that I do care about the future of the world, this is merely a promonant question on my mind for those who wouldn't believe in something beyond themselves and their senses.

Religion should be about how you live your life. About how the tenets of your faith influence what you do in this world. You should not be acting upon the promise of rewards after your death and, this is important, if you are only behaving yourself because you believe in Hell you are not a good person.

 

[hvitulf]

Why is it that I've found many of the greatest ideals in my religion most prominant in those who do not have my beliefs? What you say is the very basis of religion, its purpose. I personally am a fan of the quote "Religion is the worst thing that happened to God, and Politics is the worst thing to happen to religion." When your not insulting me and mine, you make good points. I like that you acknowledge that there is good in religion, and I understand skepticism. However, unlike you, I do not have faith in mankind to return my favors, and God has never once failed me. I believe, not because I am brainwashed into it, or that I lack reasoning or intelligent thought, I believe for the sake of myself and those around me and for the shere logic of it. The very concept of God is a being who is all, this all including nothing. No matter what one worships, with this reasoning, God, sentient, imaginary, or an alien, or exactly as described by the Pope himself, or religious texts, one will be worshiping an aspect or peice of God. I believe that we all have a place in the world, whatever it be, and it is our roll to fill it. God is a being who is infinite and exhists in the realms of non-exhistance, an unfathomeable being. Humans have long sought to define this, and I will not attempt such, because the definition of all is inconsequencial to my salvation. I will love this world and the people in it for my own reasons, and I respect you for doing the same. I simply can't believe that we are a cosmic accident.

 

[Princeps senatus]

First, try to get some grammar lessons Look at the thread title... And no, I'm not promoting ANY form of religion or church, those things make our world stand still...

I hear that....do tell, what's a relgion???

Oops... I so did not see that... well relgion is a fictional religion. Problem solved, now I just need to send that to the Oxford English Dictionary and it should be in the next edition.

 

[Necrophagist]

Religion makes a gap in this notion, it separates believers from non-believers, elits from underlings, thus making it impossible to achieve peace and equality.

But there is real reason it should. All it takes is for people of different faiths, religions, and beliefs to agree to get on and not try to overwhelm or destroy one another. Best way to achieve it is not to wipe out all religions bar for one (atheism). The answer is to remove religious belief (or lack of religious belief) from interfering in peoples lives. In other words, have complete religious freedom with no state sponsorship, promotion, or favouritism shown to any particular religion.

Kinda like what these people think [http://www.au.org/site/PageServer].

I could hardly agree, it seems to me that life is meaningless without an afterlife. I would also like to note that I do care about the future of the world, this is merely a promonant question on my mind for those who wouldn't believe in something beyond themselves and their senses.

Religion should be about how you live your life. About how the tenets of your faith influence what you do in this world. You should not be acting upon the promise of rewards after your death and, this is important, if you are only behaving yourself because you believe in Hell you are not a good person.

Your idea is noble, but unrealistic. Religion and blind ideologies naturally separate people. If one believes god is A and another believes that god is B and both are completely convinced that they are correct, then they are bound to isolate each other and learn to hate each other. So long as these barriers exist in society, we will never have peace.

Which is why atheism and the utter rejection of religion is the only chance for peace in the world.

 

[Necrophagist]

Why is it that I've found many of the greatest ideals in my religion most prominant in those who do not have my beliefs? What you say is the very basis of religion, its purpose. I personally am a fan of the quote "Religion is the worst thing that happened to God, and Politics is the worst thing to happen to religion." When your not insulting me and mine, you make good points. I like that you acknowledge that there is good in religion, and I understand skepticism. However, unlike you, I do not have faith in mankind to return my favors, and God has never once failed me. I believe, not because I am brainwashed into it, or that I lack reasoning or intelligent thought, I believe for the sake of myself and those around me and for the shere logic of it. The very concept of God is a being who is all, this all including nothing. No matter what one worships, with this reasoning, God, sentient, imaginary, or an alien, or exactly as described by the Pope himself, or religious texts, one will be worshiping an aspect or peice of God. I believe that we all have a place in the world, whatever it be, and it is our roll to fill it. God is a being who is infinite and exhists in the realms of non-exhistance, an unfathomeable being. Humans have long sought to define this, and I will not attempt such, because the definition of all is inconsequencial to my salvation. I will love this world and the people in it for my own reasons, and I respect you for doing the same. I simply can't believe that we are a cosmic accident.

I used to harbor beliefs quite similar to these. It's one step away from atheist. Keep your head up, you're almost there.

 

[runtheplacered]

Why do you people insist on doing this. Taking shots at people's cultures and beliefs by saying things like "isn't that a paradox?" is categorically uncool.

Things like this always cause arguments and uncomfortable situations that would simply not exist otherwise on these forums.

I encourage everyone to not cause problems by creating threads or posting in threads around the topics of religion. Given that the primary demographic on these forums is teen to twenty something, I am sure we can all agree that the wisdom and worldliness needed to maturely and, more importantly, respectuflly discuss these issues (as has been repeatedly demonstrated)

This is a video game site, not a theology site, let's talk about Mario not Mohamed.

Why do people insist on telling others what they should and shouldn't talk about? If we wanted to talk about video games, then this would be in the gaming section, rather then off-topic.

You can argue about any topic you can possibly think of. Arguing in itself is fine. That's a great way to learn. I've learned plenty of things while having arguments with others. When it turns into spiteful insults, then you have a problem, but fixing the problem is as easy as just walking away.

Anyway, this topic is obviously meant as some lighthearted humor. It sounds like you could use a little bit yourself. Just as anything can be debatable, anything can also be made fun of. And everything should be made fun of, to keep our perspectives in check.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

Religion makes a gap in this notion, it separates believers from non-believers, elits from underlings, thus making it impossible to achieve peace and equality.

But there is real reason it should. All it takes is for people of different faiths, religions, and beliefs to agree to get on and not try to overwhelm or destroy one another. Best way to achieve it is not to wipe out all religions bar for one (atheism). The answer is to remove religious belief (or lack of religious belief) from interfering in peoples lives. In other words, have complete religious freedom with no state sponsorship, promotion, or favouritism shown to any particular religion.

Kinda like what these people think [http://www.au.org/site/PageServer].

I could hardly agree, it seems to me that life is meaningless without an afterlife. I would also like to note that I do care about the future of the world, this is merely a promonant question on my mind for those who wouldn't believe in something beyond themselves and their senses.

Religion should be about how you live your life. About how the tenets of your faith influence what you do in this world. You should not be acting upon the promise of rewards after your death and, this is important, if you are only behaving yourself because you believe in Hell you are not a good person.

Your idea is noble, but unrealistic. Religion and blind ideologies naturally separate people. If one believes god is A and another believes that god is B and both are completely convinced that they are correct, then they are bound to isolate each other and learn to hate each other. So long as these barriers exist in society, we will never have peace.

Which is why atheism and the utter rejection of religion is the only chance for peace in the world.

Not true. There are many different faiths and cultures in the UK now, all getting along peacefully. Same in a lot of other countries. Problems only occur when one particular brand of religion decides it is going to be "the truth" and seeks to erradicate all the others.

What you are proposing is exactly the same. Why not utterly reject all religions and ateism except for Hindu and force everyone to follow that? Or Islam? Or Christianity? What gives atheism to right to force its views down everyone elses throats?

This is what I was talking about earlier when I touched upon anti-religious bigotry. There is no real difference between yourself and the likes of Jerry Falwell or Abu Hamza. Your core beliefs may be different, but your extremism and ideology is the same. You have the profound belief that you hold "The Truth", and want everyone else to follow your particular "Truth". You don't see yourself simply as someone who believes something, but as a saviour.

Seems I have heard that one before, when those idiots come knocking on my door to tell me all about Heaven and Hell.

 

[hvitulf]

Why is it that I've found many of the greatest ideals in my religion most prominant in those who do not have my beliefs? What you say is the very basis of religion, its purpose. I personally am a fan of the quote "Religion is the worst thing that happened to God, and Politics is the worst thing to happen to religion." When your not insulting me and mine, you make good points. I like that you acknowledge that there is good in religion, and I understand skepticism. However, unlike you, I do not have faith in mankind to return my favors, and God has never once failed me. I believe, not because I am brainwashed into it, or that I lack reasoning or intelligent thought, I believe for the sake of myself and those around me and for the shere logic of it. The very concept of God is a being who is all, this all including nothing. No matter what one worships, with this reasoning, God, sentient, imaginary, or an alien, or exactly as described by the Pope himself, or religious texts, one will be worshiping an aspect or peice of God. I believe that we all have a place in the world, whatever it be, and it is our roll to fill it. God is a being who is infinite and exhists in the realms of non-exhistance, an unfathomeable being. Humans have long sought to define this, and I will not attempt such, because the definition of all is inconsequencial to my salvation. I will love this world and the people in it for my own reasons, and I respect you for doing the same. I simply can't believe that we are a cosmic accident.

I used to harbor beliefs quite similar to these. It's one step away from atheist. Keep your head up, you're almost there.

I'm sorry to give you false hope my friend, but I will not be an atheist, perhaps agnostic, but I can not in my right mind take a gamble on eternity. The way I see it, we are where we are on a billion to one chance if it was all an accident, or we are where we are because of a sentient force of creation at the least. doing the math, I have it that there is a 999,999,999 to 1 chance that there is a God. I'll take my chances, If I'm wrong, then no harm done.

 

[Playbahnosh]

I could hardly agree, it seems to me that life is meaningless without an afterlife. I would also like to note that I do care about the future of the world, this is merely a promonant question on my mind for those who wouldn't believe in something beyond themselves and their senses.

Even if you don't believe in some kinda afterlife, you still live on in your children and grandchildren. No one goes away from this world without leaving something behind.

Yes, there are things beyond our senses, in fact, most things in this world are beyond our senses. That is why it's important to seek the betterment of our future and technology, so we can one day see those things beyond our reach right now. If we want that to happen someday, we need to leave the future generation with incentive and resources to continue our work. That's why we should care about our children, because we continue to live in them, as a thought, as a notion.

Well said, sir.

An afterlife is not necessary to have meaning in your life. We are animals, ones that have no fate in the act of death but to decompose. Find meaning in the life you have now - one where you act right not for fear of punishment by some non-existent god, but because it makes your life better. Be a good person for goodness' sake. God need not exist for life to be joyful. Quite to the contrary, shedding ancient beliefs in lies and superstition frees us to truly love and live our lives.

I couldn't say it better myself. That's exactly what we need. Shedding ancient beliefs and superstitions, doing away with institutions based on these superstitions that separate us from each other, and live for the future, helping to make a better life for us, for all living things, and there we will find purpose and joy.

Religion had it's purpose back in the day, thousands of years ago, when it was an institution for population control and authority. But now, that institution is worn-out, expired, and its became a barrier, an anchor in the past. What joined people together back in the day now separates people on a global scale, and the myths and superstitions it based on hinders all efforts for developing a better future.

We should do away with religion (the institution and not kill all religious people before someone misunderstands...again), and build a society based not on myths, politics, ethnics, race or borders. We are all human beings and we all live on the same planet. We don't need borders and tenets to separate us, because we are all inherently one, and we should live, think and work for a better future as one. That's the only way...

 

[Hunde Des Krieg]

You can't just make up a religion. That's just a scam, like scientology.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

We should do away with religion (the institution and not kill all religious people before someone misunderstands...again)

Nobody misunderstands. To remove one creed (or several) in order to replace it with your own because you believe you own The Truth(TM) is fundamentalism and religious bigory.

You are the very thing you would likely profess to despise, a religious extremist. Just because you are anti-religious doesn't really make it any better.

By the way, in order to succeed you would have to kill people. History has shown us you can't destroy a faith without destroying the people who support that faith. Stalin and Mao both tried and failed.

 

[Necrophagist]

Religion makes a gap in this notion, it separates believers from non-believers, elits from underlings, thus making it impossible to achieve peace and equality.

But there is real reason it should. All it takes is for people of different faiths, religions, and beliefs to agree to get on and not try to overwhelm or destroy one another. Best way to achieve it is not to wipe out all religions bar for one (atheism). The answer is to remove religious belief (or lack of religious belief) from interfering in peoples lives. In other words, have complete religious freedom with no state sponsorship, promotion, or favouritism shown to any particular religion.

Kinda like what these people think [http://www.au.org/site/PageServer].

I could hardly agree, it seems to me that life is meaningless without an afterlife. I would also like to note that I do care about the future of the world, this is merely a promonant question on my mind for those who wouldn't believe in something beyond themselves and their senses.

Religion should be about how you live your life. About how the tenets of your faith influence what you do in this world. You should not be acting upon the promise of rewards after your death and, this is important, if you are only behaving yourself because you believe in Hell you are not a good person.

Your idea is noble, but unrealistic. Religion and blind ideologies naturally separate people. If one believes god is A and another believes that god is B and both are completely convinced that they are correct, then they are bound to isolate each other and learn to hate each other. So long as these barriers exist in society, we will never have peace.

Which is why atheism and the utter rejection of religion is the only chance for peace in the world.

Not true. There are many different faiths and cultures in the UK now, all getting along peacefully. Same in a lot of other countries. Problems only occur when one particular brand of religion decides it is going to be "the truth" and seeks to erradicate all the others.

What you are proposing is exactly the same. Why not utterly reject all religions and ateism except for Hindu and force everyone to follow that? Or Islam? Or Christianity? What gives atheism to right to force its views down everyone elses throats?

This is what I was talking about earlier when I touched upon anti-religious bigotry. There is no real difference between yourself and the likes of Jerry Falwell or Abu Hamza. Your core beliefs may be different, but your extremism and ideology is the same. You have the profound belief that you hold "The Truth", and want everyone else to follow your particular "Truth". You don't see yourself simply as someone who believes something, but as a saviour.

Seems I have heard that one before, when those idiots come knocking on my door to tell me all about Heaven and Hell.

England is in religious bliss? Are you seriously trying to say there are no religious divisions in the UK? I have a few victims of some subway attacks who would BEG to differ. Oh and some people who were put through awful torments during the inquisition, the Wars of Religion, the establishment of the Church of England ... the list goes on and on. The history of religion is the history of human subjugation, suffering, and senseless violence.

And I'm not saying that we atheists should FORCE everyone to abandon their beliefs. I'm talking about a perfect world where everyone would think rationally and set aside their silly religions to live in peace. Alas, we will never be rid of the disease of delusion. Hence, the world will never know peace.

 

[hvitulf]

I could hardly agree, it seems to me that life is meaningless without an afterlife. I would also like to note that I do care about the future of the world, this is merely a promonant question on my mind for those who wouldn't believe in something beyond themselves and their senses.

Even if you don't believe in some kinda afterlife, you still live on in your children and grandchildren. No one goes away from this world without leaving something behind.

Yes, there are things beyond our senses, in fact, most things in this world are beyond our senses. That is why it's important to seek the betterment of our future and technology, so we can one day see those things beyond our reach right now. If we want that to happen someday, we need to leave the future generation with incentive and resources to continue our work. That's why we should care about our children, because we continue to live in them, as a thought, as a notion.

Well said, sir.

An afterlife is not necessary to have meaning in your life. We are animals, ones that have no fate in the act of death but to decompose. Find meaning in the life you have now - one where you act right not for fear of punishment by some non-existent god, but because it makes your life better. Be a good person for goodness' sake. God need not exist for life to be joyful. Quite to the contrary, shedding ancient beliefs in lies and superstition frees us to truly love and live our lives.

I couldn't say it better myself. That's exactly what we need. Shedding ancient beliefs and superstitions, doing away with institutions based on these superstitions that separate us from each other, and live for the future, helping to make a better life for us, for all living things, and there we will find purpose and joy.

Religion had it's purpose back in the day, thousands of years ago, when it was an institution for population control and authority. But now, that institution is worn-out, expired, and its became a barrier, an anchor in the past. What joined people together back in the day now separates people on a global scale, and the myths and superstitions it based on hinders all efforts for developing a better future.

We should do away with religion (the institution and not kill all religious people before someone misunderstands...again), and build a society based not on myths, politics, ethnics, race or borders. We are all human beings and we all live on the same planet. We don't need borders and tenets to separate us, because we are all inherently one, and we should live, think and work for a better future as one. That's the only way...

Wow, you almost had me going, until you guys started talking about forcing your own religion down my throat. Being good for goodness' sake, humans are violent and will always find reasons to fight, the eradication of a system of beliefs would only leave a gap to be filled by another method for seperating us. You have a nice idea, but it is unreasonable and restrictive, just as other beliefs can be. Good is defined by us, and thus is not a natural construct, why should I think you care about me? He who fears nothing is a danger to himself and those around him.

 

[fuckwit]

I say we should believe in the CPU.

 

[Necrophagist]

Why is it that I've found many of the greatest ideals in my religion most prominant in those who do not have my beliefs? What you say is the very basis of religion, its purpose. I personally am a fan of the quote "Religion is the worst thing that happened to God, and Politics is the worst thing to happen to religion." When your not insulting me and mine, you make good points. I like that you acknowledge that there is good in religion, and I understand skepticism. However, unlike you, I do not have faith in mankind to return my favors, and God has never once failed me. I believe, not because I am brainwashed into it, or that I lack reasoning or intelligent thought, I believe for the sake of myself and those around me and for the shere logic of it. The very concept of God is a being who is all, this all including nothing. No matter what one worships, with this reasoning, God, sentient, imaginary, or an alien, or exactly as described by the Pope himself, or religious texts, one will be worshiping an aspect or peice of God. I believe that we all have a place in the world, whatever it be, and it is our roll to fill it. God is a being who is infinite and exhists in the realms of non-exhistance, an unfathomeable being. Humans have long sought to define this, and I will not attempt such, because the definition of all is inconsequencial to my salvation. I will love this world and the people in it for my own reasons, and I respect you for doing the same. I simply can't believe that we are a cosmic accident.

I used to harbor beliefs quite similar to these. It's one step away from atheist. Keep your head up, you're almost there.

I'm sorry to give you false hope my friend, but I will not be an atheist, perhaps agnostic, but I can not in my right mind take a gamble on eternity. The way I see it, we are where we are on a billion to one chance if it was all an accident, or we are where we are because of a sentient force of creation at the least. doing the math, I have it that there is a 999,999,999 to 1 chance that there is a God. I'll take my chances, If I'm wrong, then no harm done.

Oh, it's as if I'm having a conversation with my younger self. I had a blog, wrote papers, and had arguments stating the very same as you. The thing is, rejecting the idea of god isn't a gamble at all. Imagine if you meet someone on the street who has a box, and he says, "listen, if you'll just give your life, all your energies, a portion of your money every week, and listen to ONLY that which I have to say, you can have what's in the box." Imagine you ask what's in the box, and he says, "You can only know when you've given every last second of your life to me. But trust me, it's worth it."

Would you REALLY give your life to this person in exchange for some mystery prize that can only be obtained at the low, low cost of EVERYTHING? I applaud your open-mindedness, and I'm glad you aren't shackled by dogma or ideology. But to be honest, there is nothing to be gained, in this life or any other, by harboring a belief in god.


Rationally, if there turns out to be a god, then this god certainly isn't the god of Abraham and Isaac. That's certain, 100%. Most people who study the formation of this god agree. The rest are crazy or stupid or insecure or any number of insulting character traits. It's almost certain that Zeus doesn't exist. It's nearly certain that Mythras, Isis, or Baal don't exist. So, god, is there is such a thing, is nothing like what we've come to understand god as. Therefor, according to our definition of what god is, GOD does not exist. There may be some cosmic creator out there, but it is not god. It's something else. Let's call it Cheese.

So we die, and Cheese takes our soul aside. What do you think the conversation would be like? Cheese might say, "I gave you so many clues as to my existence, but you never came to the conclusion that I, Cheese, am your creator. So you have to burn in suffering for all time." Which is unlikely. Because Cheese didn't really leave any clues. So Cheese might say, "You spent your entire life serving this "god" character, and it made you into a real dick, you know? You only served those who believed in the same "god" as you, you judged and belittled, and you limited your life. So, you get to burn. Bye." But this is unlikely since Cheese, our creator, would know us quite well, would have instilled a sense of insecurity that would lead us to believe in fairy tales.

More than likely, Cheese does not exist either. It's unnecessary. And being unecessary, if Cheese does exist and we have that cosmic conversation, it will likely be limited to, "Hell, I'm Cheese. I created everything. Let's hang and be happy."

Therefor, god does not exist, even to the agnostic. No gambling required, no struggling, no worries, no need for faith. Life is good.

 

[Playbahnosh]

We should do away with religion (the institution and not kill all religious people before someone misunderstands...again)

Nobody misunderstands. To remove one creed (or several) in order to replace it with your own because you believe you own The Truth(TM) is fundamentalism and religious bigory.

You are the very thing you would likely profess to despise, a religious extremist. Just because you are anti-religious doesn't really make it any better.

By the way, in order to succeed you would have to kill people. History has shown us you can't destroy a faith without destroying the people who support that faith. Stalin and Mao both tried and failed.

Why do I have to explain myself over and over again? Meh...

Okay, if you say I'm a fundamentalist bigot, just tell me what's wrong with my theory? Every single religion on Earth is centered around an imaginary being and worshiping said being while shutting out anyone who doesn't belong to that group. Segregation, and the worst kind at that. And in some cases it's not only just segregation, but inciting anger and hate against other groups by making them the enemy, a danger to the group. That's the problem.

What I propose, is a world without segregation, hate and ancient myths. A world, when all of Earth's population is working for a single goal: the betterment of all our lives. Technology, education and embracing our humanity. Seriously, what's wrong with that?

And for the record, I have no problem with "god". Maybe there is a being out there who we can't yet comprehend. Maybe through our common struggle for a better life, we will find that "god", I don't know. But the thing is, you don't know either. No one knows.

 

[Necrophagist]

I could hardly agree, it seems to me that life is meaningless without an afterlife. I would also like to note that I do care about the future of the world, this is merely a promonant question on my mind for those who wouldn't believe in something beyond themselves and their senses.

Even if you don't believe in some kinda afterlife, you still live on in your children and grandchildren. No one goes away from this world without leaving something behind.

Yes, there are things beyond our senses, in fact, most things in this world are beyond our senses. That is why it's important to seek the betterment of our future and technology, so we can one day see those things beyond our reach right now. If we want that to happen someday, we need to leave the future generation with incentive and resources to continue our work. That's why we should care about our children, because we continue to live in them, as a thought, as a notion.

Well said, sir.

An afterlife is not necessary to have meaning in your life. We are animals, ones that have no fate in the act of death but to decompose. Find meaning in the life you have now - one where you act right not for fear of punishment by some non-existent god, but because it makes your life better. Be a good person for goodness' sake. God need not exist for life to be joyful. Quite to the contrary, shedding ancient beliefs in lies and superstition frees us to truly love and live our lives.

I couldn't say it better myself. That's exactly what we need. Shedding ancient beliefs and superstitions, doing away with institutions based on these superstitions that separate us from each other, and live for the future, helping to make a better life for us, for all living things, and there we will find purpose and joy.

Religion had it's purpose back in the day, thousands of years ago, when it was an institution for population control and authority. But now, that institution is worn-out, expired, and its became a barrier, an anchor in the past. What joined people together back in the day now separates people on a global scale, and the myths and superstitions it based on hinders all efforts for developing a better future.

We should do away with religion (the institution and not kill all religious people before someone misunderstands...again), and build a society based not on myths, politics, ethnics, race or borders. We are all human beings and we all live on the same planet. We don't need borders and tenets to separate us, because we are all inherently one, and we should live, think and work for a better future as one. That's the only way...

Wow, you almost had me going, until you guys started talking about forcing your own religion down my throat. Being good for goodness' sake, humans are violent and will always find reasons to fight, the eradication of a system of beliefs would only leave a gap to be filled by another method for seperating us. You have a nice idea, but it is unreasonable and restrictive, just as other beliefs can be. Good is defined by us, and thus is not a natural construct, why should I think you care about me? He who fears nothing is a danger to himself and those around him.

Answer this question, without qualification.

Is it better to be good or to be bad?

I won't play games with you, this isn't a logic puzzle, just answer the question to the best of your ability. I promise I won't use circular logic or try to confuse you. All I'm asking is for your honest, thoughtful answer.

 

[cuddly_tomato]

England is in religious bliss? Are you seriously trying to say there are no religious divisions in the UK? I have a few victims of some subway attacks who would BEG to differ. Oh and some people who were put through awful torments during the inquisition, the Wars of Religion, the establishment of the Church of England ... the list goes on and on. The history of religion is the history of human subjugation, suffering, and senseless violence.

And I'm not saying that we atheists should FORCE everyone to abandon their beliefs. I'm talking about a perfect world where everyone would think rationally and set aside their silly religions to live in peace. Alas, we will never be rid of the disease of delusion. Hence, the world will never know peace.

You have got the world so wrong it is not even funny. I am going to try this one more time....

Can religion really be to blame for those things? Let us put our money where our mouth is and try the scientific method should we?

Hypothesis- Religion leads to war, death, and unrest.

Observation- Christians, Atheists, Hindus, and Buddhists live side-by-side peacefully in England.

Therefore- hypothesis is incorrect.

NO! Do NOT go on about how there is unrest elsewhere. The fact that I can cite locations where different religious groups live together and get on is enough to disprove the hypothesis. So you are scientifically incorrect in your assumptions.

Now, I want you to use your brain for a minute, not just your blind hatred. For years there was conflict between the Protestants and Catholics of Northern Ireland. Why? Religious differences? On the face of it yes. But if you aren't blinded by hate, and decide to look deeper, you can see immediately that this is an overly simplist and just plain wrong view.

When Loyalists chucked stones into a Catholic estate they weren't thinking, "Transubstantiation my dick!" There was far more too it. Circumstances.

Same with Islam. Modern Islam is shaped by events in Palestine and Iraq (among other places), and thus they have come to the reasonable conclusion that the West has it in for them. This has become embroiled in their religion, but it is the circumstance which is driving it. However "unreasonable" a religion seems, there is always a reason for that "unreason" which is tied to real world events.

The Christianity of a peasant farmer in Mexico is different from the Christianity of rich Vicar in Lancashire, and the Islam of a Glasweigan shop keeper is different from that of a Palestinian fighter.

But the thing is, you don't know either. No one knows.

I don't know, which I why I have refrained from claiming I do. You will not find a single post of mine which claims anything on a particular belief structure. But you have repeatedly called all religions fairy stories, said they are centred around "imaginary beings", and called for religion to be "erradicated". If a Christian came on and told you that Christianity was the only way, and that Atheism should die out, he would be doing exactly what you are. You talk about segregation and about anger and intolerance of different belief systems - you are doing the same yourself. There is a level of hypocracy there that I truly wish you could see for yourself, that might mellow your views a bit.

 

[hvitulf]

I could hardly agree, it seems to me that life is meaningless without an afterlife. I would also like to note that I do care about the future of the world, this is merely a promonant question on my mind for those who wouldn't believe in something beyond themselves and their senses.

Even if you don't believe in some kinda afterlife, you still live on in your children and grandchildren. No one goes away from this world without leaving something behind.

Yes, there are things beyond our senses, in fact, most things in this world are beyond our senses. That is why it's important to seek the betterment of our future and technology, so we can one day see those things beyond our reach right now. If we want that to happen someday, we need to leave the future generation with incentive and resources to continue our work. That's why we should care about our children, because we continue to live in them, as a thought, as a notion.

Well said, sir.

An afterlife is not necessary to have meaning in your life. We are animals, ones that have no fate in the act of death but to decompose. Find meaning in the life you have now - one where you act right not for fear of punishment by some non-existent god, but because it makes your life better. Be a good person for goodness' sake. God need not exist for life to be joyful. Quite to the contrary, shedding ancient beliefs in lies and superstition frees us to truly love and live our lives.

I couldn't say it better myself. That's exactly what we need. Shedding ancient beliefs and superstitions, doing away with institutions based on these superstitions that separate us from each other, and live for the future, helping to make a better life for us, for all living things, and there we will find purpose and joy.

Religion had it's purpose back in the day, thousands of years ago, when it was an institution for population control and authority. But now, that institution is worn-out, expired, and its became a barrier, an anchor in the past. What joined people together back in the day now separates people on a global scale, and the myths and superstitions it based on hinders all efforts for developing a better future.

We should do away with religion (the institution and not kill all religious people before someone misunderstands...again), and build a society based not on myths, politics, ethnics, race or borders. We are all human beings and we all live on the same planet. We don't need borders and tenets to separate us, because we are all inherently one, and we should live, think and work for a better future as one. That's the only way...

Wow, you almost had me going, until you guys started talking about forcing your own religion down my throat. Being good for goodness' sake, humans are violent and will always find reasons to fight, the eradication of a system of beliefs would only leave a gap to be filled by another method for seperating us. You have a nice idea, but it is unreasonable and restrictive, just as other beliefs can be. Good is defined by us, and thus is not a natural construct, why should I think you care about me? He who fears nothing is a danger to himself and those around him.

Answer this question, without qualification.

Is it better to be good or to be bad?

I won't play games with you, this isn't a logic puzzle, just answer the question to the best of your ability. I promise I won't use circular logic or try to confuse you. All I'm asking is for your honest, thoughtful answer.

The terms "better," "good," and "bad," are all relative, and if they are not defined for me then I may define them as I wish. To act on base instinct would have made me violent and short tempered as well as willing to cheat, lie, and do whatever it takes to survive and live how I wanted to, but is base instinct "bad?" That depends on what you call "bad."

 

[Playbahnosh]

Answer this question, without qualification.

Is it better to be good or to be bad?

I won't play games with you, this isn't a logic puzzle, just answer the question to the best of your ability. I promise I won't use circular logic or try to confuse you. All I'm asking is for your honest, thoughtful answer.

It's irrelevant, because there is no such thing as inherent good or bad.

Read this: Embrace The Horror, by David Wong
(don't pay attention to the site it's on, read the article, worth it)

The article will make it clear why there is no "good" or "bad" in the universe.