A Person Uses Transgender Law To Expose Gender Discrimination

[RikuoAmero]

I'm not going to say he's a very nice guy. The article even says he has "grown to hate women".

But that's irrelevant to his argument. His argument is completely correct, such pricing is completely sexist. If it went the other way, where women had to pay more, you can bet that feminists would be campaigning hugely against it, and rightly so. (Hell, lets take if further: Imagine that black people had to pay $35 while white people could enter for $20.)

Yet, because this is discrimination against men the issue is being trivialised and he's being told to "man up".

Sexism is sexism. Saying it's okay for one said to be discriminated against is just going to make it harder to stop discrimination on both sides in the long run. (Note that the law he's fighting explicitly says it's okay to discriminate based on sex, that's a law that should be fought.)

Plus one to this. It matters not how much of a douchebag the guy is, he is ultimately correct.

 

[Bobular]

I personally believe he should carry on his heroic campaign for social justice. Next he should start dressing as a woman and walk through a lot of doors, when someone holds it open for him he should yell at that person for their clearly sexist behavior. Then there is all those companies that sell women's clothing & underwear but not men's they need to be taken down as well. These kinds of things are the major problems facing our society today and need heroes to stand up against them.

So, are we supposed to ramble angrily against feminism or against trans rights here?

Why pick just one? Ramble about trans feminists, that strange subset of people who campaign to put trans women on top and hate trans men and all none trans people. They've clearly gone too far and they're everywhere these days.

It feels like calling sun screen racist because black people don't have to use it as much.

I never realized that, I blame my white privilege, I will stand up with my black brethren and campaign to shut down sun screen companies forever! Or wait, is it racist because white people have to use it more therefore have to pay out for it more? I'm so confused. Either way DOWN WITH SUN SCREEN!

[/silly][serious]

That law as its presented in the linked article does seem like it could be abused, I'm not against the idea of lady's nights or things like that as I don't think its discrimination. I think the line is drawn at intent, if your doing an offer to entice in female customers then that's OK, but if your doing an offer to drive away male customers then that's where I think you've got a problem.

I just think this guy is not putting his point across in a good way, if he really wanted to protest he should gather some like minded guys together and protest out side establishments that offer these kinds of offers, ask the guys going into these places if they're happy with the current situation and if they're not then to join him in boycotting the establishment. I don't think he'd get many guys complaining about lady's night though to be honest.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

So, are we supposed to ramble angrily against feminism or against trans rights here?

Well, you don't want to get labelled a mangina/cuckold/SJW, do you? I guess we hafta...

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Well it probably still doesn't balance out the gender pay gap anyway. Oh and there is the tampon tax due to apparently being considered a luxury item to our right-wing government; shock-fucking-horror there. I wonder how bitter he is that ladies generally get more free drinks on nights out. Whatever will he do to prove to us all of this terrible hypocritical injustice? I am on the edge of my seat in anticipation. If you hate women, why do you claim you want to be one? Hmm. Meanwhile, might I suggest a little counseling? That bee in the bonnet has built a nest it seems.

 

[Wrex Brogan]

What a ****.

 

[Elijin]

Isnt this sort of discrimination essentially an apology?

"We're sorry you're going to be hit on a dozen douchebags while you try enjoy a nice night out, here's a cheaper door price."

I mean sure its more like 'We need to lower the price so women will find it more appealing to put up with people's bullshit' rather than the apology...but...yeah.

Nah, it's a marketing tactic. cheaper cover prices mean more girls in the bar, which in turn attracts more guys paying the full cover charge. The reason the system has become so universal and persisted so long is because it works.


Businesses care more about their bottom line than gender politics.

As to the topic... meh. It's not my place to tell anyone what hill to die on.

Yeah but that marketing exists because venues weren't getting enough female customers. At least I know many places like that, maybe its a where you live deal. But yeah, low female turnouts due to the interactions at these events. So incentivations to get women to take the plunge.

 

[K12]

We've got a new civil rights hero now... you can move aside Rosa Parks. (that joke works in two ways)

1. Gender dysphoria and the right to be accepted as your chosen gender doesn't work like that, they checked his license and it said "male" therefore he is legally male. This is the kind of misunderstanding that arises when your view of gender dysphoria and transgender rights isn't from psychologists, law-makers or experienced experts but from right-wing bloggers reposting the dumbest sounding comments they found after hours of trawling tumblr and twitter.

2. Discount pricing for women technically is sexist and I think you may have a chance arguing that it is unlawfully discriminatory if you didn't act like a totally clueless hateful fuckwit in the process.

This feels vaguely similar to a situation in the UK where there used to be a company called "Sheila's Wheels" that only offered car insurance to women [since women are safer drivers and have fewer accidents on average] and that is no longer allowed... and insurance companies now can't use gender as a factor when calculating insurance premiums.

3. The discount pricing is less about "female privilege" and more about balancing out the fact that women get harassed groped and risk being date-raped. Without the discount pricing fewer women would turn up, which means that fewer men would turn up as well and the event fails to make a decent profit.

 

[Phasmal]

I'm really not interested in the opinions of someone who hates women.

What a cockhole.

 

[JimB]

Do you think this guy has a point or he is being an insensitive jerk?

Horner has a fact. He does not have a point. Ladies' Night is sexist, but they're approximately as sexist against women as they are against men, since the goal of such a thing is to attract lots of women as a selling point for the bar ("Hey guys! Pussy inside! Inquire within!"), which he doesn't even consider. If he had a genuine point about such pricing being a violation of the ERA, then the method of approach is to take the law to court, not to spout transphobic garbage about how he feels like a woman "in this moment" that buries any validity beneath a mountain-sized grudge he has against women.

If he sincerely thinks there is a sexist problem in Las Vegas that needs to be addressed, then he is the sloppiest, most useless shitminstrel of an advocate for thinking this childish outburst is the way to expose it.

 

[RaikuFA]

Read the first post, immediately thought of this:

I'm really not interested in the opinions of someone who hates women.

What a cockhole.

Yeah pretty much. Guy ain't Rosa freaking Parks, just a troll in real life.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Hey, if he says he's a woman then he's a woman. I thought that was the whole point. If it doesn't matter what your DNA says, what your biology says you are, or what you have lived your life as for decades, if you say you're suddenly a woman, you must be treated as such and anyone who says differently is transphobic, right? Besides, who are any of you to judge? You should all check your privilege.

I'm trans so I can say with quite a bit of authority that's not how being trans works in the real world. In support groups and close inter personal situations the claim might be enough, but in general practice if you claim to be trans, but aren't presenting as the sex opposite the one you were assigned at birth. If you just claim to be trans to get "special benefits of trans status", without doing anything else to show it, you're rightly going to get called out on that shit. Claiming to be trans when you're not trans is a transphobic tactic of invalidating trans identites after all. Also trans people don't switch pronouns, or expect to be treated as they wish, until they start transition and present as the gender they identify as at least part time. Further more unless that person is full time, they don't expect to be respected as the gender they identify as, unless they're presenting as the gender they identify as at the time.

Also DNA? Well there's strong evidence that transgenderism has genetic factors, so a genetic, or DNA argument is out the window. Biology? Well considering how transgenderism is physically identifiable in the brain, by a person having physical neurological structures of the gender they identify as, not the sex they physically are. Also reducing someone to their sexual anatomy is total sexism rooted in in the concept that all men are sexual predators and all women are helpless. Genitals don't define a person's personality, the brain does, that means what the brain says about who a person is is what matters. Lived experience? The majority of trans people know we're trans from a very young age, many live a lie about themselves for years, or decades, depending on when they transition. Also the assumption you made here totally ignores people like me, who transitioned durin childhood. I didn't have decades of living as a male for decades, I started social transitioning at age 5.

Hey, if he says he's a woman then he's a woman. I thought that was the whole point. If it doesn't matter what your DNA says, what your biology says you are, or what you have lived your life as for decades, if you say you're suddenly a woman, you must be treated as such and anyone who says differently is transphobic, right? Besides, who are any of you to judge? You should all check your privilege.

Literally no one has claimed that's how gender dysphoria and transitioning works

Edit: Apart from transphobic people who refuse to acknowledge trans people's identities.

Yeah basically, the assumptions in Lysander's posts are rooted in cissexism and transphobia... And really because these sorts of biases are always targeted at trans women, it's also transmisogyny.

OT: So the guy doesn't even attempt to look like he's in transition, demands special treatment, and is known misogynist... Yeah that's pretty typical of an internet slacktavist MRA/Redpill bigot...

Also ladies night promotions aren't sexist, they're demographic marketing that works as follows: Demographically men spend more in bars, men go to bars with more women in them, bars give women a special deal for free, or cheap drinks to attract women... More women in the bar attracts more men who spend more money on average. That's not sexism, it's basic economics.

The guy exploiting protections for transgender people to make a point that's meaningless and sexist on his part... Yeah he's not just an insensitive troll, what he's doing is criminal fraud, because he's defrauding the state's law on protections that don't apply to him. He needs to be charged with a crime for that, it's a misdemeanor, but it's still more than just trolling, it's criminal fraud.

 

[sageoftruth]

All I can really take away from this is, transgender law is pretty complicated. Law isn't something I spend much time thinking about, but this sounds like a sign that people will need ways to legally identify themselves as a particular gender, otherwise, transgender law can be freely exploited by anyone.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

All I can really take away from this is, transgender law is pretty complicated. Either we create a system for legally recognizing people as male or female, or we just shrug and go with a system that anyone can abuse.

Actually transgender legal protections are insanely difficult to abuse, while the people who abuse them do such as blatant false flag political move... There really isn't any incentive to abuse trans protections in the law. For instance trans bathroom access laws don't make peeping in a public restroom any less illegal, there are already people who peep int their own restrooms, and trans people are easy to identify in these situations. No trans person who hasn't transitioned is going to have the need to, or will, use trans protections, that means any trans person who needs to be verified is transitioning, or has transitioned. Which in turn means there is a medical and often legal record of the transition, which means proving transness is rather easy. Gender non-conforming people are outliers, but also fairly easy to identify when evaluated.

Your idea is either throw the baby out with the bathwater in a way that hurts the most vulnerable in society, or anarchy... Which is unrealistic when there is a middle ground. That middle ground is to punish people who abuse the system, because they're not flipping hard to identify.

 

[MCerberus]

I haven't met anyone at a lady's night ever. That could be specific to bars (I don't drink) but everywhere I go that has a lady's night just seems pointless. I've had my heart ripped to shreds by a "won't work out" started by a chance meeting at a comic shop. My friend and I used to go to book stores together where we met a pair of women that did the same (still chat occasionally). These places had lady's/women's nights, but why would I be happy with someone who doesn't share my interests that was just lured out by discounts?

Unless all these places are counting on it just being alcohol leading to hookups in the creepy "you can't legally consent" way.

 

[sageoftruth]

All I can really take away from this is, transgender law is pretty complicated. Either we create a system for legally recognizing people as male or female, or we just shrug and go with a system that anyone can abuse.

Actually transgender legal protections are insanely difficult to abuse, while the people who abuse them do such as blatant false flag political move... There really isn't any incentive to abuse trans protections in the law. For instance trans bathroom access laws don't make peeping in a public restroom any less illegal, there are already people who peep int their own restrooms, and trans people are easy to identify in these situations. No trans person who hasn't transitioned is going to have the need to, or will, use trans protections, that means any trans person who needs to be verified is transitioning, or has transitioned. Which in turn means there is a medical and often legal record of the transition, which means proving transness is rather easy. Gender non-conforming people are outliers, but also fairly easy to identify when evaluated.

Your idea is either throw the baby out with the bathwater in a way that hurts the most vulnerable in society, or anarchy... Which is unrealistic when there is a middle ground. That middle ground is to punish people who abuse the system, because they're not flipping hard to identify.

Well, if that's the case then I think this thread is officially concluded. I don't see any practical argument to be had from this incident other than the structural integrity of transgender law. My only question is, how do you legally prove that someone was abusing the system?

 

[happyninja42]

Seriously, he's crusading against the "injustices" of Ladies nights in bars and pool parties? As a single guy I love places that make an effort to attract cute girls in, because many bars that don't are complete sausage-fests! That's not an injustice, it's to everyone's benefit to reduce the sausage-fest ratios!

Members of the male, gay community might disagree with you on that injustice.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

All I can really take away from this is, transgender law is pretty complicated. Either we create a system for legally recognizing people as male or female, or we just shrug and go with a system that anyone can abuse.

Actually transgender legal protections are insanely difficult to abuse, while the people who abuse them do such as blatant false flag political move... There really isn't any incentive to abuse trans protections in the law. For instance trans bathroom access laws don't make peeping in a public restroom any less illegal, there are already people who peep int their own restrooms, and trans people are easy to identify in these situations. No trans person who hasn't transitioned is going to have the need to, or will, use trans protections, that means any trans person who needs to be verified is transitioning, or has transitioned. Which in turn means there is a medical and often legal record of the transition, which means proving transness is rather easy. Gender non-conforming people are outliers, but also fairly easy to identify when evaluated.

Your idea is either throw the baby out with the bathwater in a way that hurts the most vulnerable in society, or anarchy... Which is unrealistic when there is a middle ground. That middle ground is to punish people who abuse the system, because they're not flipping hard to identify.

Well, if that's the case then I think this thread is officially concluded. I don't see any practical argument to be had from this incident other than the structural integrity of transgender law. My only question is, how do you legally prove that someone was abusing the system?

Well currently it's all false flag stuff, so you just point out that the abuser has done nothing to transition... As unfair as this will sound to my trans fellows on the forum, anyone who uses a trans protection, then breaks the law in that context, is also abusing the system. Luckily the vast majority of trans people are law abiding and use the protections properly. Just because a trans person can use the facilities that feel safest, or/and match the ones of their identity, doesn't make any illegal activity in those facilities more legal for them. Anyone who isn't trans who uses trans protections to abuse things like ladie's night... Well they haven't even tried to crossdress to make the point yet... Although attempting to abuse ladie's night isn't illegal, it's just a shitty thing to do. If said person filed a lawsuit because they were 'discriminated against', it'd be fairly easy to prove the case a frivolous abuse, by looking into their history.

Law is always complicated, but these things aren't that difficult to prove in court all considered.

 

[The Lunatic]

Well, yeah. I mean, it's obviously sexist to charge differently based on gender.

Likewise, it'd be pretty racist to charge differently based on skin colour.


So, I do agree that this kinda stuff should really be shown the door.

Is this the guy to do it? Noooooope.