A philosophical question about teleportation

[ribonuge]

This is taken from an article and better describes what I was thinking about than I would be able to convey.

Suppose there existed a 'teleporting' machine that worked by scanning your body and creating an exact duplicate of you, atom by atom. Assume that the replica would have the same personality and memories that you have (that is, don't consider the possibility of your selfhood residing in an immaterial soul) and that the procedure is instantaneous, so from the point of view of the replica it has just been teleported, having a continuous experience from being at one place to being at another. Then, is there any reason to consider 'you' to be the version of you that remains at the same place, instead of the replica? If the machine works by killing the original 'you' at the same time that creating the replica, is stepping in the machine a form of suicide or just a convenient way of transportation?

Of course teleportation isn't probable for a very long time if ever, so this is purely hypothetical. Then again they have already succeeded with it at an atomic level...

 

[fix-the-spade]

It's suicide.

You have ceased to exist, you are dead and something else has replaced you. From my viewpoint that is unacceptable, especially as you will never go anywhere, I don't give two shits about what the copy does, I've just been killed and it isn't me.
If the teleporter pulled a David Bowie and made a copy but left me intact, I'd be killing that copy as fast as possible, then campaigning to make teleporters illegal since I'd have proof they were legalised murder...

 

[AndyFromMonday]

It's suicide. That "you" isn't exactly "you", it's a copy and even tho it will have all your memories and consider nothing ever happened that copy is just that, a copy.

 

[ZeLunarian]

No matter which way you look at it. YOU are still being destroyed and a replica is being made.
When they master time travel teleportation should be a sinch.

 

[ribonuge]

I have the same thoughts about cloning. If they make a total copy of you, bit by bit, your mind, your memories (obviously, today's cloning can't do that yet, but maybe in the future), and if it behaves exactly like you and has the same feelings and flaws, doesn't that negate the existence of the soul?

I suppose I'd consider it suicide though. The users above me have given far better reasons than I.

I was going to mention cloning aswell but I felt that teleportation covers the question a little better.

It doesn't copy you. It de-constructs you then re-constructs you. They have already teleported something, So it is completely possible!

It does create a replica by analysing your atomic structure. The point of it is, when you are reconstructed is that you or is it a different person with your memories etc? Basically does your original consciousness cease to exist or does it remain through the dematerialisation process.

 

[tomtom94]

Ooooooh hang on hang on hang on. I actually studied a short story in Philosophy based around this concept. I want to find that short story.
We concluded that it was not teleportation, it was basically very strange.

EDIT: Can't find the short story, so:
It's not teleportation per se, but as an object has technically been transferred across space, you could claim it as such.

 

[AgentNein]

Great question. If the teleportation machine did indeed work sort of like a fax machine, scanning our cellular makeup, brainwaves, etc and then sending that info to another machine that recreates us, then yes the original would be effectively destroyed. My double would be somewhere with my memories, thinking he's me, but I'd be gone. MY PERSONAL consciousness would not be transferred, it'd just be duplicated and the original destroyed.

Then again, I'm not made of the same junk I was when I was born. I'm pretty sure at the age of 27 every part of me has been replaced over time. Am I still the same person I was?

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

I guess it's technically not true teleportation, but if the reconstruction is the same as me in every possible way, then as far as I care it is me.

The only way it could get nasty is if the original wasn't destroyed, or when you consider the possibility that there is a certain immaterial aspect to the self that is lost during the process (like a soul).

 

[Mr Wednesday]

It is not suicide, and I would have no problem doing it.

The personality is what makes a person. Since the personality remains intact, the person has not died.

No, not it does not, not in the slightest, it simply has to do with behaviour.

What we "are" is an entity that experiences. The entitiy is, presumably local to our corporeal form. A soul, self, whatever, we are, to put it crudely, ourselves.

Another self, no matter how identical, would not be me.


The real question is whether our self would survive the transport of the molecules invovled in teleporting. But if the machine explicitly just creates a new you, then the answer is fairly ovbious here.

 

[AgentNein]

Here's a question that illustrates one of my points really well. Lets say you own a boat called The Pelican. Over the years you've done repairs to that ship, replaced parts that needed to be replaced...one day you realize that you've effectively replaced every part of that boat over the span of 30 years or so. Then you build a new boat with the scraps of the old boat (which you kept because you're a pack rat), which one can rightfully be said to be The Pelican?

 

[ZeLunarian]

Great question. If the teleportation machine did indeed work sort of like a fax machine, scanning our cellular makeup and then sending that info to another machine that recreates us, then yes the original would be effectively destroyed. My double would be somewhere with my memories, thinking he's me, but I'd be gone. MY PERSONAL consciousness would not be transferred, it'd just be duplicated and the original destroyed.

Then again, I'm not made of the same junk I was when I was born. I'm pretty sure at the age of 27 every part of me has been replaced over time. Am I still the same person I was?

Brain cells and certain nerve endings aren't replaceable... also im sure your eyes stay the same throughout your life... skin however :S

But generally speaking I don't see how in such sci-fi this isn't such a big deal. if this technology that did exactly this were to exist tomorrow. I doubt it would be generally accepted.

 

[erto101]

This makes me wonder... if the replica thinks it's me and i "die" how would it ever be discovered? Anyway i would say that it's just A.I. cloning and therefore unacceptable(for my moral standard,that is)

 

[jasoncyrus]

This is taken from an article and better describes what I was thinking about than I would be able to convey.

Suppose there existed a 'teleporting' machine that worked by scanning your body and creating an exact duplicate of you, atom by atom. Assume that the replica would have the same personality and memories that you have (that is, don't consider the possibility of your selfhood residing in an immaterial soul) and that the procedure is instantaneous, so from the point of view of the replica it has just been teleported, having a continuous experience from being at one place to being at another. Then, is there any reason to consider 'you' to be the version of you that remains at the same place, instead of the replica? If the machine works by killing the original 'you' at the same time that creating the replica, is stepping in the machine a form of suicide or just a convenient way of transportation?

Of course teleportation isn't probable for a very long time if ever, so this is purely hypothetical. Then again they have already succeeded with it at an atomic level...

So basically...its like the prestige then? Created a perfect copy of him and he rigged it to kill the original.

EDIT: Why would anyone want a cloner that killed one anyway? Instant free labour and cannon fodder. It would change the whole world works. Wars for example would no longer be about technology...they'd be able clone rushes and meat grinders. Imagine an army of 5 billion fighting 5 billion. It would be truely incredible, would make a fortune on PPV.

 

[Keava]

Well thats one type of theoretical teleportation where matter is being changed into data stream. There are other 'possibilities' that focus more on transfering actual matter from point A to point B.

But yes with the described method its pretty much the same deal as it goes through every living organism. Our cells die and are reconstructed all the time, i dont remember the exact numbers but after a while you have very little of the original cells building you. Considering you have about 5-75 trillion cells in your body that pretty much ensure that each day you have something new inside you on avarage. Does it make you less human?

 

[Deleted]

The feelng of being a 'copy' would be too much to bear.

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

Then again, I'm not made of the same junk I was when I was born. I'm pretty sure at the age of 27 every part of me has been replaced over time. Am I still the same person I was?

The question of whether you're 'the same person' is more a semantic issue if you ask me (what does 'the same person' mean?), but you raise a good point. The individual cells in your body are constantly dying and being replaced without it truly affecting your being, so would it be that different if it happened to all of your cells at the same time? In the end, if the copy is perfect then the result is the same: You're no different one second before the event than you are one second after the event, except that in the case of teleportation you're suddenly in a different location.

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

(patch coming soon to remove my asshole personality)

Is there any way to distribute that patch to the rest of the world? There are far too many people around with that particular bug...

 

[Galad]

Can such a machine actually create life, even hypothetically speaking?

Is this, again, hypothetical process, any different from cloning?

 

[viking97]

that would work pretty well. its hardly suicide considering your not actually dead. what would the do with all the bodies though? plus someone could shut off the power mid teleport and you'd be dead.

 

[Red Right Hand]

To answer that you need to first define wht makes me "me". And I think if you replace me perfectly then you have created what makes me "me", so no it's not suicide, if you then exist in another form. I personally see nothing wrong with doing that because the only immoral thing about murder is the loss of a human life but that's not happening in this case.