A potentially original take on piracy? Probably not, but interesting.

[MasochisticAvenger]

My opinion on piracy has, and always will, remain the same. The only time pirating something is acceptable to me is when you cannot reasonably acquire it legitimately. So for example, since Bandai isn't releasing anymore Gundam to the U.S. (and no one else has picked it up as of yet), I think it's acceptable to download it. Same with a lot of japanese only shows like Kamen Rider or Super Sentai (and no, I do not consider learning Japanese and getting a multi-regional DVD player simply so I can buy the DVDs from a second-hand dealer to be reasonable).

I just wanted to see if it was any good I can kind of get behind. The only reason I ever got into Gundam in the first place was because I pirated a few of the episodes of Gundam Wing, and I've gone on to buy every bit of Gundam that has been released on DVD. However, I do believe there has to be some cut off point. Something like the first five episodes of a series (assuming the series has more than five episodes) or the first thirty minutes to an hour of the game. Basically if you play through the entire game on the pirated copy, even if you claim you didn't like the game, you should buy it no questions asked.

Also, I do have to say it's getting harder and harder to feel any sympathy for the industries. I do believe people have the right to protect their work, but not to abuse it. Things like movie reviews getting taken down because they contain clips from the movies, or game companies trying to claim Used Games are equivalent to Piracy, really need to stop. Oh and it's only tangentally related, but things like "You gave my game a bad score so you played it wrong and must re-review it" can go to hell as well.

 

[thraza]

some people need exspencive PC for certain jobs i cant think of any but if you are going to school you need a PC (it can be pathetically weak but its probably a little more or less the price of a console). also in my case i drop games somewhat quickly but most of the games that draw in my attention i payed for like terraria minecraft black ops and battlefield 3. i generally use pirating for demoing game or games i am certainly never going to buy but are interesting e.y.e it was interesting and fun to begin with but fell apart quickly if there was a company made demo of just the beginning i would have wasted a lot of money. a better example would be mirrors edge good demo not so good game

 

[Epona]

Also, I do have to say it's getting harder and harder to feel any sympathy for the industries. I do believe people have the right to protect their work, but not to abuse it. Things like movie reviews getting taken down because they contain clips from the movies, or game companies trying to claim Used Games are equivalent to Piracy, really need to stop. Oh and it's only tangentally related, but things like "You gave my game a bad score so you played it wrong and must re-review it" can go to hell as well.

After seeing all of these game companies supporting SOPA, I am surprised there are still people who care about these companies. Stockholm syndrome maybe? I mean shit! These companies were in support of a bill to take away a free and open internet and people are still like "those mean pirates picking on those poor game companies".

 

[zehydra]

Was the game you purchased the one that was cracked and uploaded as a torrent? No? Then they didn't it steal from you.

This is the sort of analogy you're trying to make: You buy a pair of sunglasses. Right after you pay for your sunglasses, somebody shoplifts a pair. That person didn't steal the sunglasses from you, they stole it from the store. It would have made no difference if you had bought orange juice or a nice sweater instead of the sunglasses. They stole the sunglasses, and the sunglasses belonged to the store. End of story.

The point is, is that honest people keep the games' industry afloat, and if everyone were to listen to the pirates' reasoning, then we wouldn't have a games industry anymore.

He feels like his legitimacy is going to waste.

Imagine it this way: Suppose you keep donating to a fund, but people keep stealing from it. They aren't stealing from you, but it makes it feel like what you're doing is a waste of time.

That's the point he's trying to get across.

 

[marcapasso]

Government should make a entertainment tax to subsidize the movie, music and gaming companies to make free for us movies, music, games and other things that are part of our culture.
I'm not a big fan of piracy but make free for many people books and music that is important, because its culture.
Culture must be free for all.

 

[Evill_Bob]

I think most of you are missing the point of his post. The piracy stuff is just setting the stage for his point. Bostur got it but I don't know how many others. As long as the general populace wants comfort. They really don't care how the government is run as long as they can have a comfortable way of living. They could be living in a Monarchy, Dictatorship, or a Republic but it doesn't matter as long as they have food, shelter, and entertainment. That's kind of how the USA is right now and has been in the past especially before becomming a superpower, it's on a sharp economical decline but as long as the people have something to do they won't mind. But take away something that they are used to and then there are people who are suddenly poor and working a deadend job, or no job at all, and with nothing to do but remind themselves of their situation. Many people don't understand PIPA/SOPA so a few companies and representitives think they can get away with it before they do. Sadly a lot of people dismiss the internet as "a thing nerdy kids play", yes those words have been said and somehow managed not to visiously stab them, so their entertainment is television and movies. So only a portion of the population will get up in arms about this legislation while the other part will have no idea why they're so pissed off before they go back to the newest season of American Idol, Survivor, and bullshit news (take your pick, there isn't one left on the air with their integrity intact).

 

[zehydra]

Also, I do have to say it's getting harder and harder to feel any sympathy for the industries. I do believe people have the right to protect their work, but not to abuse it. Things like movie reviews getting taken down because they contain clips from the movies, or game companies trying to claim Used Games are equivalent to Piracy, really need to stop. Oh and it's only tangentally related, but things like "You gave my game a bad score so you played it wrong and must re-review it" can go to hell as well.

After seeing all of these game companies supporting SOPA, I am surprised there are still people who care about these companies. Stockholm syndrome maybe? I mean shit! These companies were in support of a bill to take away a free and open internet and people are still like "those mean pirates picking on those poor game companies".

do you have a list of the game companies that were? I know EA was, but that's all I know. I also know that some withdrew their support after shit went down.

 

[zehydra]

piracy isn't theft it,s breach of copyright laws
eventually piracy is going to be the only way to get some older games/movies/songs the original storage media is going to degrade and getting the media as soft ware (as in computer only) is going to be the only way to enjoy it.
personally I would never pirate a game unless I want to try it out (developers if you release demo,s you might end up with less piracy.)
I would only pirate if there is no alternative. (IE the game not being on GOG or Steam or the storage medium being unreadable/obsolete like a cassette tape,floppy drive or proprietary media like a game cart granted if I legally own the original system)

I'm a similar way. I've pirated numerous roms, but it's only when Nintendo doesn't even produce them anymore. I feel no obligation to purchase a used game over pirating old roms since the money's not going to Nintendo either way.

 

[Wintermoot]

piracy isn't theft it,s breach of copyright laws
eventually piracy is going to be the only way to get some older games/movies/songs the original storage media is going to degrade and getting the media as soft ware (as in computer only) is going to be the only way to enjoy it.
personally I would never pirate a game unless I want to try it out (developers if you release demo,s you might end up with less piracy.)
I would only pirate if there is no alternative. (IE the game not being on GOG or Steam or the storage medium being unreadable/obsolete like a cassette tape,floppy drive or proprietary media like a game cart granted if I legally own the original system)

I'm a similar way. I've pirated numerous roms, but it's only when Nintendo doesn't even produce them anymore. I feel no obligation to purchase a used game over pirating old roms since the money's not going to Nintendo either way.

my thoughts exactly.
if a dev wants to make money on old games simply re-release them for a lower price like the Fallout collection (FO1-2 and Tactics) considering there are emulators for every machine until the the previous generation you can easily emulate the intended machine on a Windows or Mac computer (and even on some consoles)

 

[Epona]

Also, I do have to say it's getting harder and harder to feel any sympathy for the industries. I do believe people have the right to protect their work, but not to abuse it. Things like movie reviews getting taken down because they contain clips from the movies, or game companies trying to claim Used Games are equivalent to Piracy, really need to stop. Oh and it's only tangentally related, but things like "You gave my game a bad score so you played it wrong and must re-review it" can go to hell as well.

After seeing all of these game companies supporting SOPA, I am surprised there are still people who care about these companies. Stockholm syndrome maybe? I mean shit! These companies were in support of a bill to take away a free and open internet and people are still like "those mean pirates picking on those poor game companies".

do you have a list of the game companies that were? I know EA was, but that's all I know. I also know that some withdrew their support after shit went down.

No, but every company that is a member of the ESA minus the few companies that came out in opposition. I know that Square Enix, Sony and Nintendo were in support of SOPA. Not sure about Microsoft because there were conflicting stories about them not belonging to the ESA. EA apparently refused to take a stance on SOPA, which probably means that they didn't want to come out and say they supported it. If the opposed it, I am sure they would have made that known. EA is a member of the ESA.

http://www.complex.com/video-games/2012/01/ea-refuses-to-oppose-sopa-despite-over-130000-that-do

 

[Atmos Duality]

Government should make a entertainment tax to subsidize the movie, music and gaming companies to make free for us movies, music, games and other things that are part of our culture.
I'm not a big fan of piracy but make free for many people books and music that is important, because its culture.
Culture must be free for all.

That's an incredibly bad idea.

Logically, government subsidy should be limited to absolute essentials with restrictive production costs; as hip as it sounds to say "culture is a necessity", it isn't. Culture is the byproduct of a stronger, stable core of essentials.

It's a luxury, and as such, it's best subject to full-competition within a market.

 

[TheScientificIssole]

Jealous that they are saving money?

Kinda lost you there. I don't give two shits about piracy, but don't act like it's an investment.

 

[Epona]

Jealous that they are saving money?

Kinda lost you there. I don't give two shits about piracy, but don't act like it's an investment.

Let me clarify.

I am wondering if the anti-piracy folks are just jealous because the pirates are saving money by getting the game for free. I am trying to understand all the hate.

You wanna pirate Skyrim, go ahead, I don't care. I paid $60 for it but I don't care if or how you get your hands on it. I am just trying to figure out why people care what other people do in this regard. I know Bethesda employees aren't missing any meals. I think people are just jumping on the anti-piracy bandwagon, like a witchhunt.

 

[DracoSuave]

All the while the game industry was growing, there was piracy. I refuse to believe that piracy is killing the industry.

'I refuse to believe that nuclear weapons can damage countries because it hasn't destroyed one yet.'

You wanna pirate Skyrim, go ahead, I don't care. I paid $60 for it but I don't care if or how you get your hands on it. I am just trying to figure out why people care what other people do in this regard. I know Bethesda employees aren't missing any meals. I think people are just jumping on the anti-piracy bandwagon, like a witchhunt.

Sigh.

Because it would be 40-50$ if piracy weren't putting a dent in the profit margins, allowing them to price it more competitively.

l2economix

 

[NightHawk21]

I have only ever pirated if i was curious about a game, but there was no demo (or the demo wasn't enough to show off the game).

Every game i have ever pirated, and liked, i bought.

If i had bought every game that i wasn't too sure about, then games like Duke Nukem would have been a commercial success - although i did bite the bullet and buy it on release day without pirating - big mistake, but reinforces my point.

My argument is, if there wasn't pirates the games industry would be flooded by crap games, because they would be making money off of it.

Another example - i pirated Skyrim, because i hated oblivion, so i thought i'd give skyrim a try. I LOVE it, and immediately went out and bought it brand new!

Having said all this, i rarely do pirate.

That's my school of though too (with Skyrim as well). My skyrim example was a bit different though because I just got a new PC and red the specs and hit most of the minimum, some recommended, some I was just under and didn't know how the game would play. Worked fine and bought. Also I think that although not everyone should pirate, there are cases where piracy leads to sales. For example, I bought god of war used (I know publishers, go ahead and throw me in hell), which while not the same thing as piracy IMO, it serves the same purpose from OPs perspective (ie. used sales generate nothing for publisher like piracy). I played the game enjoyed it and bought the next one new. Just something to think about.

 

[cthulhumythos]

That's semantics. If you steal a game, physically, from the store (a hard feat nowdays, since most games are locked up behind the counter andthe stuff on the shelves are just empty cases), then you don't have a pirated game, no, but you have committed theft.
If you pirate a game, you have committed piracy, which is basically the same as theft, though not exactly.

..."Basically the same, but not exactly". In other words, "not the same", because the only way for something to be "the same", is to be "exactly the same."

"The same, except for..." is not "the same." Yes, semantics, but pretty freakin' important semantics.

Thank you, that's all we needed to hear.

Get your facts straight already. Piracy is not theft. It's still an offense, but it's a different one. The same way joyride is not grand theft auto.

... no, dude, it's totally stealing. youre taking something without paying for it; money doesn't go to the seller because no one bought it. it's theft.

obviously there could be more nuance to the situation; but pirating a game that you were capable of purchasing is theft. i realize that that is still pretty broad, but i can't really condense all situations where downloading is ok/ isn't ok into one post.

 

[ablac]

Was the game you purchased the one that was cracked and uploaded as a torrent? No? Then they didn't it steal from you.

This is the sort of analogy you're trying to make: You buy a pair of sunglasses. Right after you pay for your sunglasses, somebody shoplifts a pair. That person didn't steal the sunglasses from you, they stole it from the store. It would have made no difference if you had bought orange juice or a nice sweater instead of the sunglasses. They stole the sunglasses, and the sunglasses belonged to the store. End of story.

But if everyone but him stole the sunglasses then there woudlnt be any sunglasses and the price is higher to pay for the money lost due to people stealing sunglasses therefore he pays to subsidise the thief.

 

[DracoSuave]

That's semantics. If you steal a game, physically, from the store (a hard feat nowdays, since most games are locked up behind the counter andthe stuff on the shelves are just empty cases), then you don't have a pirated game, no, but you have committed theft.
If you pirate a game, you have committed piracy, which is basically the same as theft, though not exactly.

..."Basically the same, but not exactly". In other words, "not the same", because the only way for something to be "the same", is to be "exactly the same."

"The same, except for..." is not "the same." Yes, semantics, but pretty freakin' important semantics.

Thank you, that's all we needed to hear.

Get your facts straight already. Piracy is not theft. It's still an offense, but it's a different one. The same way joyride is not grand theft auto.

Here's a non semantic argument for you.

Property rights are important. The entire argument AGAINST DRM and Digital Distro is that it absolutely chips away and denies property rights of the consumer. That's the ENTIRE anti-DRM argument in a nutshell.

This makes the argument of piracy as an anti-DRM stance hypocritical and dishonest. 'I pirate* because fuck their DRM' is a dishonest argument, because one cannot say that property rights are important and valuable while, at the same time, stripping people of their property rights themselves.

It doesn't matter if you call it stealing or copyright infringement, or try to win the argument based on semantics. That's just moving the goalposts, and you know it.

It doesn't matter, because the central argument is that it is disregarding the basic rights of property that lie in the spirit of BOTH anti-theft AND anti-infringement laws.

Moreover, it's a flawed argument. Trying to debate about WHICH law it falls under means you're making a legal-based argument over something that is illegal. Oh, but now that you've redefined the terms, you can take it back out of the legal definition and start justifying it? Seriously, that's the most dishonest argument form. IF you're making a legal argument, then you argue on legal terms and lose. IF you are not making a legal argument, then you do NOT argue on those terms.

You do not get to do both and expect people to call you on obvious argumentary shinanegans.

And it IS shinanegans, and you're getting called on it.

Argue honestly, without resorting to moving the goalposts, or forfeit your argument.


[sub]*piracy in this argument means the downloading of media you do not own a copy of. It does not include cracking software you do own to remove DRM, nor does it include downloading media you do already own copies of. I personally do not take issue with those, and neither are illegal in my country.[/sub]

 

[Epona]

All the while the game industry was growing, there was piracy. I refuse to believe that piracy is killing the industry.

'I refuse to believe that nuclear weapons can damage countries because it hasn't destroyed one yet.'

You wanna pirate Skyrim, go ahead, I don't care. I paid $60 for it but I don't care if or how you get your hands on it. I am just trying to figure out why people care what other people do in this regard. I know Bethesda employees aren't missing any meals. I think people are just jumping on the anti-piracy bandwagon, like a witchhunt.

Sigh.

Because it would be 40-50$ if piracy weren't putting a dent in the profit margins, allowing them to price it more competitively.

l2economix

What can I say about your nuke analogy? Silly..perhaps.

No, Skyrim wouldn't be $40-50 if not for piracy, prices were raised to $60 at the beginning of this gen supposedly due to license fees. That caught on for PC games too but not because of piracy, because they could and people paid it. Unless you have a source stating otherwise?