A question for Star Wars fans.
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I agree, it's kind of like what Nanomachines did to all the GI Joe style super soldiers from Metal Gear Solid. Took away what made them magical. Made them mundane. Uninteresting. Science tends to do that to things, it's wierd.Furburt said:
Also, I liked Phantom Menace, not as much as original trilogy, but it was still good despire Jar Jar. At least it wasn't as off the mark as the other two prequels.
Funnily enough, Lucas also tried, in the same movie, to make Anakin's mother say it was a virgin birth. Talk about confusing themes; is it science or magic he was going for? Why dismiss one mystical element with a contrived explanation and create another, much stupider one at the same time?
(maybe he was high...)
(maybe he was high...)
I liked the Phantom Menace. I personally think that the Midichlorians add a new, slightly more mature, depth to the series. If you're interested in the emotional conflict about why only some people have the force and how being born with midichlorians pre determines your destiny, then the prequals are propably for you (or at least the books set during the clone wars).
Thats why I read the Republic commando series. It's a much more adult look at the concept, and it doesn't stick with this religious, I have the force so I am right, view that the jedi seem to look at themselves with.
Thats why I read the Republic commando series. It's a much more adult look at the concept, and it doesn't stick with this religious, I have the force so I am right, view that the jedi seem to look at themselves with.
I always thought that was the whole fucking point.Furburt said:
Like the franchise saying: "The Force IS NOT magic!"
Is it so bad really?
Okay, the explanation is stupid and the "no father" business is awful but I say it's okay.
Star Wars, the original trilogy, is not science fiction. It is a sword and sorcery fantasy epic that contrives to add in to that the hardware, and therefore the visuals, of science fiction. The sword and sorcery is central to the action, the SF is secondary. By pushing it into the realm of fantasy rather than SF it gives the viewer permission to suspend disbelief and not analyse the SF elements too closely. Start analysing the science of Star Wars and it all unravels very quickly.
By adding in the midichlorians it is like Lucas is trying to argue that it is all SF. That simple action breaks the fourth wall, and calls attention to the million other inconsistencies.
Look at it this way: Star Trek is SF. It goes to great lengths to create an internally consistent universe, and can provide answers for any question you care to name about its science (accepting that some of the science relies on theories that have yet to be discovered). If Trek introduced something that could only be explained as magic then it breaks the genre and the story. It is as jarring as a rape scene in the middle of Sesame Street. In the same way the midichlorians are a painful and unnecessary device in Star Wars.
For another example of how to break a beautiful story by wrenching it out of its genre watch Highlander and then Highlander II. The sequel not only is rubbish, but breaks any nostalgic memories of the original.
By adding in the midichlorians it is like Lucas is trying to argue that it is all SF. That simple action breaks the fourth wall, and calls attention to the million other inconsistencies.
Look at it this way: Star Trek is SF. It goes to great lengths to create an internally consistent universe, and can provide answers for any question you care to name about its science (accepting that some of the science relies on theories that have yet to be discovered). If Trek introduced something that could only be explained as magic then it breaks the genre and the story. It is as jarring as a rape scene in the middle of Sesame Street. In the same way the midichlorians are a painful and unnecessary device in Star Wars.
For another example of how to break a beautiful story by wrenching it out of its genre watch Highlander and then Highlander II. The sequel not only is rubbish, but breaks any nostalgic memories of the original.
Not really, midi-chlorians are simply offered as the agent and source of that energy and the science behind Force use was always unknown to those who weren't themselves Force sensitive.madcap2112 said:
And to the others: Is saying "midi-chlorians did it" really any more scientific than saying "energy did it"? There truly isn't a difference as any energy is implied to have some source. Calling that source "Forcitrons" or "Midi-chlorians" really makes no difference in how well you understand just how it works.
But I suppose the average person wouldn't really understand that. If you're simply accustomed to assuming that real world forces have scientific explanations without wondering (or being capable of understanding) what exactly that is then fantasizing about a force beyond science must come naturally.
As for myself and many whom I know the idea that "magic" is explainable by science (and is therefore scientifically possible) is the more entertaining fantasy.
Couldn't that "energy field" be created by the midi-chlorians? This is just a thought; I'm not exactly a Star Wars "fan" (like the movies, but haven't seen much more of it).madcap2112 said:
Star Wars is not science fiction, its a fantasy story set in the future. The midi-chlorians changed the focus from fantasy to science (and changes the way its perceived in all the other iterations in the series). Not to menction it creates a lot of inconsistencies like how force users can interact with rocks and other inanimated objects (which don't have midi-chlorians in its blood)
Its like all of a sudden Tolkien tried to explain how the one ring refracted light, thus granting invisibility, because it was made of unobtanium (which has a really high melting point, that is why they have to throw it into a volcano; and emits radiation that drive people crazy).
Its like all of a sudden Tolkien tried to explain how the one ring refracted light, thus granting invisibility, because it was made of unobtanium (which has a really high melting point, that is why they have to throw it into a volcano; and emits radiation that drive people crazy).
This.Tranka Verrane said:
When I saw The Phantom Menace in the theater all those years ago, I left pissed off because a large part of my childhood was rendered moot in just 2 short hours. I stayed angry about midi-chlorians for years until I came up with a workaround in my mind. I figured that it could be consistent if a lot of midi-chlorians were just an indicator of a Force-sensitive individual instead of what make the Force. So testing for that would allow the Jedi Order to find true candidates. It's a rationalization, I know, but it's one I like.
I'm still angry about Jar-Jar. I don't think that will ever go away.
And i will add; if it an be analysed, (considering its the future and all their super-duper techs) it can be replicated in some way. Meticliorans ?(sp) just clone a bunch of the stuff, then inject it into people = force powars for the mass! Bascialy, Rapture meets star wars.DominicxD said:
Grounogeos said:
An energy field as powerful as the Force created by micro-organisms? That seems kind of silly. It's hard for me to watch characters in the original movies say 'May the Force be with you' and think they're talking about midi-chlorians. The point is, the introduction of midi-chlorians debunked the mystical element that made the Force interesting. It was completely unnecessary and we would have been fine without it. No one wanted the Force explained, certainly not with that reasoning.Eldritch Warlord said:
Wow.. I will never look at Sesame Street the same way ever again... One of these kids is different from the other!! Can you guess which?! OH DEAR GOD!!!Tranka Verrane said:
Rofl...
Sick minded jokes aside... Great way to put it, I think you put it in a way that I couldn't.
I didn't like the whole thing about midi-chlorians because it takes away from the mysticism and makes the universe too scientific and less mysterious. On the one hand, even though the Force is supposedly generated by these things, we still don't have any explanation about how it works and why it does some things that it does (except maybe we simply accept that what the collective actions of these microscopic things do as random). Many old-school star wars fans either pretend they didn't hear it or accept the midi-chlorian stuff as a theory (how many times can Lucas expect us to accept every retcon he throws at us twenty years later?). I personally pretend that I didn't hear it because I think it's retarded. I honestly thought Episode I was a good movie and all the old-school Star Wars fans should get over it: it happened, it's there, it's a different generation, and it's still better than Star Trek.
All energy is the sum of infinitesimally small components. That would only seem silly to someone who doesn't really understand forces to begin with. Therefore midi-chlorians should be indistinguishable from magic to yourself and the mysticism of the Force is preserved making your complaints of no consequence.madcap2112 said:
If I told you that gravitons cause gravity would that change your perception of gravity at all? I doubt it.