A question to the grown adult men of the Escapist

[DarthSka]

Basically, both people in this situation are just being stupid. The girl for being unbelievably drunk and the guy for getting with her. More fault to the guy for sure, but come on girl, what did you think would happen huh? I always find it annoying that when both parties involved are drunk, it's still the man taking advantage of the woman. They're BOTH drunk. They're BOTH stupid. They're BOTH in the wrong. Thankfully, most alcohol tastes like shit to me, so I'm likely not going to be in this sort of situation. Good day to you.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Not saying it never happens. But on the grand scale of things, what do you think the percentage is? Maybe 0.01% of the times shit like that happens, it's the girl who initiates it.

Happened to me all the time when I was in my 20s.


GODDAMN I MISS BEING IN MY 20s... so much crazytime.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Really, that's what guys want to think.

BLARGH... who wants to be with a woman who only knows one position - the petrified starfish?

 

[Grand_Arcana]

Considering how much I've lost sleep over potentially disappointing a friend of mine, I say I'd never do that, and if I did I'd probably be suicidal for a long time.

 

[NezumiiroKitsune]

As you've described it, 8 - 9.

Inebriation doesn't excuse you entirely, but it certainly mitigates the wrong doing's intentions. It's an irrevocable fact that it hampers your inhibitions, and some people haven't got the moral integrity and metabolism to deal with it. If they know this, they should certainly make sure they drink less, and maintain awareness, but assuming they're already prone to being morally bankrupt, they won't care. This isn't to say, as I've expressed, you don't get rightly very angry. If a party is genuinely distraught and apologetic however, I'd find it difficult to be entirely unsympathetic. A willingness to acknowledge wrongdoing is commendable (though, this, a reprehensible thing to do). People aren't the same when they drink. It varies greatly between individuals.

Anyway, quite high on a ""How much of a advantage taking prick he is" index". He should be profusely begging forgiveness and apologising until his lungs collapse. I wouldn't be able to look this person in the eye for a long time.

 

[winter2]

Of course, how often does a girl get drunk and try to convince a drunk guy to have sex with her? Then tell him to forget the condom, she doesn't care about getting pregnant, she just wants to have sex. The answer: almost never.

So what I've seen is isolated cases then. Okay.

Not saying it never happens. But on the grand scale of things, what do you think the percentage is? Maybe 0.01% of the times shit like that happens, it's the girl who initiates it.

I'll definitely admit that guys do it more often. But one in ten thousand? No fucking way.

Maybe 1 in 10,000 is high, maybe it's low. Either way, it's arguing a technicality. Men are more interested in sex than women, and will do very stupid things to get it.

That's not true either.

It's societal BS.

Agreed. Total BS. Even the women that have tried to pretend they weren't that interested in sex I have had to beat away with a stick after the deed was done.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

What that guy did is something that I would never do sober and probably not do drunk. Now if she came onto ME, I would definitely do it drunk, and possibly do it sober. Its kind of hard to judge the exact scenario because I only know this story conveyed through you, who has emotional investment in it (therefor it's subject to skewing) and it's been conveyed to you through your girlfriend, who has a LOT of emotional investment in it and was drunk at the time, so the story you heard probably isn't exact in the first place.

 

[Chefodeath]

Alright OP, heres the reason why you can't really be pissed at the guy as something other than "the object which your partner used to cheat on you."

If you believed that people when drunk, as both the guy and your partner were, are not responsible for their actions, then you can't hold him to guilt obviously.

If you believe that people when drunk are responsible for their actions, then you still can't really hold him to guilt. Your partner, though drunk, still had agency. She CHOSE to cheat on you. Its basically the same as if she and the guy met on the street and had this conversation.

Guy: Hey, want to have sex?
Girl: Sure. I have a girlfriend, but I don't want to be faithful to her.
Guy: uh...ok

You can only hold the guy as guilty if you eliminate your partner's right to consent. So unless you want to say she was too drunk to make a decision, or that it wasn't her decision to make, you really can't say anything.

On a personal note however, I think its a rather trashy thing to do. If a woman wants to sleep with me, really wants to sleep with me, she can go break up with her partner first.

Lolwut? You can't hold him guilty for knowingly taking part in someone cheating on their partner? I don't see why the other party wouldn't be guilty when they know they're helping someone do something that's wrong.

No, no you really can't. A relationship is a mutual agreement, if one party decides to it wants out, relationship is officially over. Whats shitty about cheaters is that they typically don't tell their partner about their cheating when they are under some obligation to. Its more about dishonesty than anything. The person the cheater is having an affair with is under no such obligation to the first party. So like I said, unless you want to deny the agency of the cheater and reduce the 3rd person to a thief, stealing the first person's 'property' you really have nothing to say.

 

[00slash00]

Here is the situation. First of all, notice that I am female so this is most definitely not me we are talking about and the situation didn't happen to me, but never the less affects me deeply. Anyway here is the scenario:

A girl is very drunk. An 8-9 on the 1-10 scale of sober to passed out drooling. You know her, you know she has a serious partner and would never entertain you sober. You come on to her asking if you can touch her. she agrees. she seems into it. She asks you several times if you have a condom and you say no, but have sex with her anyway. She doesn't stop you.

I know scales suck, please explain yourself if you reply. On a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 is 'extremely sweet and respectful towards women' and 10 is 'this guy would have fucked her if she was passed out', how bad and/or normal is this guys mindset?

I obviously don't understand male sexuality at all and in my eyes this is extremely disgusting. Like, devastatingly disgusting. I have been in a situation where a girl was naked and begging for it and i left. She was so drunk and horny she was actually pissed at me at the time. But I couldn't have lived with myself the next day, I knew she would never have been there if she wasn't beyond capacity hammered.

short answer: that guy is scum. if she was obviously wasted and especially if she had a boyfriend, he is a complete bastard for taking advantage of her.

if the guy is also drunk then things get a little murky. in general, i would say the person with the most control over their actions (ie, the person who is less drunk) would bear the responsibility. since the girl in your story seems to pretty much be too drunk to move im gonna put the blame on the guy. in any case, i see this guy as a 10 and a rapist

 

[dibblywibbles]

first off your scale is ridiculous. you can't have a sliding scale for something like this (sweet/scum of the earth) if you're looking for blame...
fault lies on the monogamous partner. if they're both in relationships that's kinda messed up and both hopefully regret their actions. seriously though, you would fault someone for being drunk and coming on to someone? this other person is receptive to these advances(in their state of intoxication) and allows it to go further than just simple words? I just want to make sure I understand. now this isn't an ideal situation but resistance starts with a simple no. if she said no that changes everything and yes he's pretty much a rapist in my eyes. also if you can't hold your liquor maybe dial it back a notch. I imagine the dude was drunk as well. we all make silly mistakes when we're kids, hopefully not so much as we become adults. it sounds like to me you're trying to vilify him in order to make forgiveness easier.Remember she broke some serious trust with you, not him.

4

 

[Inkidu]

Yes, according to the Lifetime network we're all rapists at heart.

I don't drink (I can't stand the taste of fermentation, really.) Plus, I don't know about you but a chick who has a high percent chance of vomiting on me or wetting herself during sex really turns me off.

How about I do the gentlemanly thing and find her significant other and get her out of my hair.
Really, I can't believe some guys have to think about this. Just do the right thing.

 

[A Distant Star]

Well this is certainly a loaded question, and I am not even going to try and navigate the responses to it. But I will answer the question honestly. Though I suspect my answer will not be indicative of the typical response here because I am coming from this at a very different body and identity politic.

The short answer is: I wouldnt be that position.

The more proper answer goes something along the lines of this.

I'm straight edge. I dont drink or take recreational drugs, I will play a little loose and fast with the general straight edge consensus on casual sex (EG: I actually practice casual sex) I would never fuck a girl when she was shit face drunk, even if we where in a long term relationship. I dont really tow the straight edge party line, I have nothing against people who do drink or take drugs... as long as they can maintain there composure. If your falling over yourself drunk, I just want no part of it, I cant think of many bigger turn offs then some drunk chick.

In a hypothetical situation where some generic guy fucks some generic girl who is drunk (tales been told a thousand times.)well... if he's sober and taking advantage of her drunken state, he's a rapist. The morel quandary of gets more complicated if they are both equally drunk. How can I possibly pass more blame to one party over the other just because of there gender? I cant. My knee jerk reaction is to still blame the guy, but that's not a fair response. If no infidelity is involved... well they're both idiots, and I really find myself more ashamed for them then morally outraged.

Since your example did how ever state she had a partner, then infidelity is involved. I have a strange attitude towards infidelity. I have never cheated on a girl, but I have been cheated on and I have played the roll of the other man. When I was cheated on, I had a hard time caring, I'm just not a man who is prone to jealousy. When I played the roll of the other man, well, I made no promises to her boy friend, no commitment existed between me and him. Managing her relationship is her problem not mine. Of course, when ever we fooled around, she was sober... so there is that.

 

[mikeysnakes]

Drugs really aren't any excuse whatsoever, well drugs besides heroine. I'm going to use my own rating though, I'd rate the guy as a douchebag. Sadly, a lot of men don't think that partners are important, especially when those partners are women, but that doesn't mean all men think like this or even think this mentality is good. Using your rating, I'd probably say 8, with all things considered, but as for the woman in this, I'd say a bigger responsibility falls on her, because it is her relationship. I've been in a similar case, where an ex girlfriend didn't care that I had a girlfriend and knew just the right way to get me into bed with her again. In the end it was my fault, and I'm the one who has to live with that. So... I can relate, the sad part is, no matter what, a bigger fault is on her.

If the guy wasn't a douchebag though, I would imagine that she wouldn't have gotten in this mess.

 

[Ryengu]

I think it's incredibly wrong to take advantage of someone's impaired judgement. Especially if he's unimpaired himself and thinking clearly, this sounds exploitative and predatory to me. It shows no concern for the other person whatsoever.
Moral of the story, don't get hammered drooling drunk.

 

[Slayer_2]

"Societal BS", as you call it, has a huge effect on how people behave. Not saying it's a good thing, but it's a fact.

What I mean is that, Biologically, they aren't less interested. They just discouraged from being open about it.

Oh, of course. In an ideal world, it wouldn't be so, but in reality, that's the way it is. Guys are down for sex 24/7, and girls hate it and only do it to make guys happy. Hopefully such notions will deteriorate over time.

Really, that's what guys want to think. And girls go along with the plan because guys like to think the girls don't like sex. Mostly to preserve misguided notions of staying "pure" or whatever.

Sounds about right.

 

[Chefodeath]

Yes, actually you can. They are aiding someone in doing something dishonest. They have no legal obligation, but they have an ethical one. It doesn't have to be an issue of property to refuse to deal with people who treat others badly and dishonestly.

Oh bollocks. This isn't the same as supplying a murderer a gun. The reason why cheating is wrong isn't because of any physical reprecussion. Its not so much that two persons happened to exchange fluids, its that a person has decided to breach their partner's trust. The person has essentially already made the ethical breach by trying to do it, by willing it. Whether or not you reciprocate only matters to cement this person's act and provide evidence of it for posterity.

Again, if we follow your logic where you ignore a person's desires for sex out of obligation to their partner, then we are relegating that person to secondary status and the chattel of his/her lover. "Your desires are of no consequence as you belong to your mate." Practically speaking, I think its a rather trashy thing to do sleeping with a cheater, but I don't see any ethical obligation not to.