A rant on PC fanboyism

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sir.rutthed

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What happened to the whole "don't rant for a rant's sake" rule? I seem to remember a very similar thread I started getting taken down when I ranted about HL fans, but it's OK to rant about PC fanboys? Whatever.

OT: I really don't know what you're talking about man. I haven't seen any of these threads you're talking about and for every one of those threads you listed I could point you to another 5 about how xBox is the only real way to game. Sure there's PC fanboysim here, but there's also Nintendo Fanboyism, Half Life fanboyism, xBox fanboyism, ect. Ya it's annoying and ya we all wanna ***** about it sometimes, but that's the nature of the community. Mods, please remove this waste of space thread, it's useless to anyone whose not a troll.
 

Vibhor

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RhombusHatesYou said:
Uh huh... Entry cost is the combined cost of the bare minimum gear needed to get the experience. I use a 32" HDTV that cost around $100 more than the rest of my PC setup combined as a monitor but I wouldn't use it as part of the numbers for "entry cost".
You need a tv to play a console. I don't see why the HDTV is not a bare minimum. You just cannot play the game without a television thus it IS a bare minimum.
I mean I could buy a PC without a video card and it could still run lotsa games but you cannot buy a console without tv and expect to play anything.
 

ultimateownage

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You act like the PS3 and Xbox crowd don't do the exact same thing to people who don't use their system.
 

Racecarlock

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I mainly prefer my 360 because it is plug and play. PC is a very open platform though. However, an HDTV is NOT a necessity when playing on a 360, so pointing out HDTV costs won't really help that argument. However, consoles do get really expensive too. I know the PC is more technologically advanced and that mouses and keyboards are more open ended than game pads, i'm just tired of hearing it.
 

DaHero

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WaaghPowa said:
Dexter111 said:
Vibhor said:
I don't think buying a HD TV is actually cheap.
The entry cost is around 1000$ for both consoles and PC, that is, if you want a good experience.
You would find that a PC is cheaper in the longer run. The various accessories for consoles increase the cost for consoles up to eleven.... but who am I to speak anything? I haven't upgraded my PC since 2008
In regards of PCs costing a lot more, no they don't: http://tinyurl.com/FalconGuide
Here's a guide towards buying a PC in logical incremental upgrades. The consoles are below the "Destitute" spec listed here in all regards but the graphics card, which the "Minimum" spec trumps though. Consoles have a PowerPC CPU architecture that largely can't be compared to the x86/x64 PC architecture but the tech has advanced a lot in the last ~6+ years and they're generally better/more efficient at that too.

All PCs from Modest-Very Good can play all games out today at mostly High/Highest settings fluidly, all PCs from Great-Outstanding can play all games out today at their Highest settings, the range beyond that is usually reserved for people with more money than sense.
As much as I respect your ability to reinforce the facts with sources in a rational and civil manner, no matter how many times you, or I, present concrete facts that PC gaming isn't expensive, or in many cases cheaper, there will always be some ignorant nut bag who will scream "PC gaming costs thousands of dollars and my xbox only costs 300 zomg!!!!11!".
If they say that, look them dead in the eye, and say "So how's that Xbox Live workin for ya?"

So now that this discussion is over, dang my PC tanked higher up than I thought. I could use some more RAM though, I only have 4GB and when I try to run Morrowind MGSO mod it kinda needs some tweaking.
 

Racecarlock

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Vibhor said:
RhombusHatesYou said:
Uh huh... Entry cost is the combined cost of the bare minimum gear needed to get the experience. I use a 32" HDTV that cost around $100 more than the rest of my PC setup combined as a monitor but I wouldn't use it as part of the numbers for "entry cost".
You need a tv to play a console. I don't see why the HDTV is not a bare minimum. You just cannot play the game without a television thus it IS a bare minimum.
I mean I could buy a PC without a video card and it could still run lotsa games but you cannot buy a console without tv and expect to play anything.
A TV is a bare minimum. An HDTV is not. My small standard def samsung TV still works quite well for me.
 

Vibhor

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Racecarlock said:
I mainly prefer my 360 because it is plug and play. PC is a very open platform though. However, an HDTV is NOT a necessity when playing on a 360, so pointing out HDTV costs won't really help that argument. However, consoles do get really expensive too. I know the PC is more technologically advanced and that mouses and keyboards are more open ended than game pads, i'm just tired of hearing it.
Neither is a graphic card necessary to play games. Atleast not a good one. That means the whole price point argument is completely bullshit. The only benefit consoles have IS simplicity thus the whole "dumbing down" argument.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Dexter111 said:
Vibhor said:
I don't think buying a HD TV is actually cheap.
The entry cost is around 1000$ for both consoles and PC, that is, if you want a good experience.
You would find that a PC is cheaper in the longer run. The various accessories for consoles increase the cost for consoles up to eleven.... but who am I to speak anything? I haven't upgraded my PC since 2008
In regards of PCs costing a lot more, no they don't: http://tinyurl.com/FalconGuide
Here's a guide towards buying a PC in logical incremental upgrades. The consoles are below the "Destitute" spec listed here in all regards but the graphics card, which the "Minimum" spec trumps though. Consoles have a PowerPC CPU architecture that largely can't be compared to the x86/x64 PC architecture but the tech has advanced a lot in the last ~6+ years and they're generally better/more efficient at that too.

All PCs from Modest-Very Good can play all games out today at mostly High/Highest settings fluidly, all PCs from Great-Outstanding can play all games out today at their Highest settings, the range beyond that is usually reserved for people with more money than sense.

The real problem with this sort of nuts and bolts level comparison is that they don't take into account that consoles run much more efficient operating systems because they're not designed to be general purpose systems (although, may change next console generation as console manufacturers try to shoe horn more extraneous shite into their platforms).

Also, as the Great Carmack Himself has said, having to program graphics via APIs for PCs is inefficient and somewhat 'awkward' but it does let them avoid a million and one hardware conflicts caused by varied configurations of the platform... which is, to Him anyway, one of the biggest drawbacks of the Windows family of OS.
 

The Lugz

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the simple answer to gaming is this:

if you find it fun then great but telling people what to think is never going to work
and it just causes arguments

there is no future in running around telling people gaming on a calculator just as good as a xbox and expect people to agree they wasted £150+ on hardware when clearly a £40 calculator is all you need to be as powerful as a game-boy and have a nice gaming experience based on the game's mechanics
if you want to game on a calculator
( and you can, plenty of scientific calculators can be reprogrammed ... )
if you wish your brain to be blown, click here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculator_gaming

it really wouldn't effect me, in fact i'd be quite impressed.

essentially
what we learn here is to never play the price / performance war card because pebbles in sand pwns anything
( the simplest thing always wins because it's free. )

people love insane redundancy ( do you need 120 fps when playing command and conquer... not really but people love to think they are going to react one septillionth of a nanosecond faster and get their units out of range, but in reality.. they won't )
people love unexpected details
but then, seriously do you need a physics engine built into your game code for realistic modelling of how the buttons on your ui should click down and how they'd deform under your finger? no.
would it be a nice touch? yes.
that is what you get when you spend more money, insane things that don't really add allot to your game-play
but do in their own way add some fun and feel 'premium'
also the graphics issue,
and this is the one people always comment on..
yes you can build a pc that can display higher definition images than current gen consoles
it would be extremely difficult to match the price, due to how console sales work
it makes very little difference, because unless it's a pc exclusive game in the first place and therefore moot as to graphical 'difference' because a console wont run it without custom firmware anyway

all your likely to get is some shiny post processing, massively overkill aa and af for minutely sharper images with a tiny bit more atmospheric effect and if your very lucky some volumetric fog or improved physics or sun-shafts that EAT processing power the witcher 2 in your example has to be turned down to medium to run smoothly on anything but a high end over-clocked rig with at-least 3 terraflop's of processing ( 3 xbox 360's worth, fyi )
but few company's even bother, and just make straight ports so there is almost no difference but frame-rate, and sometimes even that is capped

now, you can 'force' on graphical effects on a pc with varying results.. generally there is a reason it isn't just included in the game files to begin with and alot of the time it's because the effect reacts badly with the game and causes massive slowdown or you end up with strange graphical artifacts, black-screens ect if you don't know what you're doing

it's really tough and go as to whether you can call this an advantage or not.. but if you care that much you can min max your game so.. yah, maby.


at the end of the day it's a people problem, and people need to learn to respect other peoples decisions, ideas, thoughts and feelings

someone may have completely legitimate reasons for doing something that is less efficient, or more or less expensive or time consuming than you, it also matters when they bought something, how much effort they are prepared to put into that something before it isn't fun for them anymore
and what gimmicks they like, do you want 3d-vision? do you want motion controls? how about compatibility with 6 different control input methods for several game types?
it's such a complicated issue that you cant really justify saying there's a winner anywhere just on features, it comes down to personal preference
this isn't just a console war it's a huge social problem, it's because people are people
 

Evaheist666

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00slash00 said:
Evaheist666 said:
I used to be a PC gamer but then I realized the only kind of game PCs are good for are point-and-clickers. So I only play those on my PC and never worry about upgrading the hardware every 2 damn months since adventure games run nicely on even a moderate PC.
I've owned a PS3 and 360 for quite some time now and couldn't be happier.
2 months?! i upgrade every 2 years and have yet to encounter a game i couldnt run on max or at least high settings
lol I may have exaggerated a little with 2 months but back in the days I played PC only, I had to upgrade every 6-7 months since I always wanted to have a top of the line rig and new stuff were showing up on the market left and right.

Nowadays you can go without an upgrade if you build a rig with a nice i7 and Gtx570 and you're good to go for at least 2 years.
 

kurokenshi

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Racecarlock said:
DISCLAIMER: I'd like to start this out by saying not all PC gamers do this, and I really appreciate the ones that don't. This is not aimed at anyone not guilty of this, so put your flame shields down. For those that do do this, prepare thyself.

I have been a member of the escapist since last year, and there's one thing that keeps popping up that is really really annoying. Almost every PC gaming thread I go on to is filled with smug pricks who act as though their choice of platform makes them better than anyone else. As if that alone wasn't annoying enough, they then point the finger at console gamers like, for example, ME. At these people i'd like to pull the do unto others card. You would undoubtedly hate it if console gamers were constantly blaming PC gamers for more complicated games or the PCification of console games. You'd hate it if we constantly strutted around proclaming that gamepads are the unseatable god of control methods. So why the fuck should we have to take it from you? What are we? Low class peasants? And I have no problem with you if you just love the PC to the exclusion of other gaming platforms, that's your choice. It's only when you lord that choice around and act like you're somehow a better person because you only play on PC. That drives me nuts. I love my Xbox 360, but you don't see me walking around and claiming that it's reborn Jesus in gaming platform form. As for the "dumbing down" of PC games for the console crowd, who do you think does the dumbing down in the first place? Developers. That's who you should blame. Not me, who is just trying to discuss gaming in peace. And yeah, the gamepad has less buttons than a keyboard. I play games fine with it anyways, and if a developer is making a first person shooter and their excuse for a two weapon system is that the controller doesn't have alot of buttons, they're just trying to get you to blame us, which sadly has apparently worked. Besides which, if I got a really complicated game with a bloated fractal spreadsheet nightmare of a user interface, I wouldn't blame it on PC gamers or the fact that the keyboard has alot of buttons on it. So why should I have to deal with it from your end? Huh? Can't I just game in peace? I can't speak for all console gamers when it comes to our behavior, I can only tell you how I behave, which I have. But one thing I do know is that probably most console gamers are sick of hearing how we're dirty peasents who are destroying the entire video game industry because we chose to play our games on a console. You'd hate it if we were doing it to you. So stop doing it to us.

Edit: Some examples of this crap. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.259536-PC-Gaming-Master-Race
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.290579-Whats-with-PC-gamers-being-the-master-race
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.290144-Zero-Punctuation-The-Witcher-2-Assassins-of-Kings
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.290163-Skyrim-to-be-a-console-port-which-shouldnt-be-too-hard
Hi I'm a PC gamer! You got some valid points but your dead wrong with your "PC Gamers blame consoles for everything" statement.

We usally complain to the Devs first when games aren't optimized for our platform and then have to put up with comments like "elitist" from the console crowd. I have nothing against consoles but when console gamers rock up on PC forums and call me an "elitist" for complaining becasue I paid for a game that has essentially become a coaster then I get pissed.

As for the PC Gaming Master race threads why shouldn't we? Nobody said there couldn't be a Console Gaming Master race?

Now for the Console port rant:

That is 100% the Devs fault, I've played some really good console ports and I've played some really bad console ports. The bad ones generally reek of a cash grab and half assed couldn't give a crap about coding the game properly on the PC.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Vibhor said:
RhombusHatesYou said:
Uh huh... Entry cost is the combined cost of the bare minimum gear needed to get the experience. I use a 32" HDTV that cost around $100 more than the rest of my PC setup combined as a monitor but I wouldn't use it as part of the numbers for "entry cost".
You need a tv to play a console. I don't see why the HDTV is not a bare minimum. You just cannot play the game without a television thus it IS a bare minimum.
Off brand 17" widescreen monitor will work just as well and cost far less.
 

Racecarlock

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Vibhor said:
Racecarlock said:
I mainly prefer my 360 because it is plug and play. PC is a very open platform though. However, an HDTV is NOT a necessity when playing on a 360, so pointing out HDTV costs won't really help that argument. However, consoles do get really expensive too. I know the PC is more technologically advanced and that mouses and keyboards are more open ended than game pads, i'm just tired of hearing it.
Neither is a graphic card necessary to play games. Atleast not a good one. That means the whole price point argument is completely bullshit. The only benefit consoles have IS simplicity thus the whole "dumbing down" argument.
But who says you nessecarily need an HDTV? My standard def TV works fine. Plus, you have to consider the fact that the person or family in question might already have a TV, standard or high def varying, so the console is actually comparatively cheap. However, there are cheap PCS out there too, so there's not really a better side here.
 

Choppaduel

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hmmm.... Well the only console games (of this gen) I've enjoyed are Crackdown and the two Ratchet & Clank games. Meanwhile, in PC land, there are no distinct generations, and I've enjoyed far more games on PC in the last however many years the current consoles have been out. Just in the last few months I've enjoyed Minecraft, Witcher 2, and Portal 2, all of which are new releases. I liked far more of console games during the PS2, CG, xbox era. Consoles lost my interest when they stopped making games for me, in other words making games to my interest. My interests haven't even changed that much, I still like run and gun, old shcool fps.

Also, I never actually seen a "PC fanboy." People who like PC and think consoles are unnecessary, act on different level to the Halo fanboys, for example, who's posts I've read. The pro-PC crowd exhibits much less racism, profanity, immaturity, spelling mistakes, emotional rants and much more passive aggressive, condescending, sudo-logical arguments. I'd much rather read the latter.
 

ilspooner

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Ugh, I'm mostly a PC gamer, and I hate the elitists just as much as you do. I agree with you there.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Choppaduel said:
Meanwhile, in PC land, there are no generations
Actually, there are LOTS of generations of hardware but because of the open architecture of PCs it pays for manufacturers to have these generations play as nice together as they can manage.
 

Waaghpowa

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DaHero said:
If they say that, look them dead in the eye, and say "So how's that Xbox Live workin for ya?"

So now that this discussion is over, dang my PC tanked higher up than I thought. I could use some more RAM though, I only have 4GB and when I try to run Morrowind MGSO mod it kinda needs some tweaking.
The other thing is that they seem to perceive game PC's in the same respect as a console, that it's a gaming devoted box, which is untrue. We all need a PC, so why not spend the cost of an Xbox/PS3 to make your PC play games just as well, if not better? A lot of pre built PC's easily have the RAM and CPU's for high end gaming, but no GPU, yet they cost so fucking much. Most sensible people, in terms of computers/technology, would notice that.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Racecarlock said:
Plus, you have to consider the fact that the person or family in question might already have a TV
My family often has spare monitors... usually old CRTs but if you're that desperate for a monitor you don't turn one down.
 

Racecarlock

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Hammeroj said:
OP is a troll. He's been in at least most of the threads he linked, and all his posts in them were either trolling or incredibly short sighted and stupid. Stuff like "playing with a touch pad is the same as playing with a mouse" and a whole bunch of other bile.

Now he makes his own thread.

[HEADING=1]DO NOT FEED THE TROLL.[/HEADING]
I rescinded that touch pad argument. I also rescinded that constant hardware update argument. I'm trying to get better at this.
 

Magicman10893

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Actually, I would like to thank the "PC Gaming Master Race" for uniting all the Xbox and Playstation and Nintendo fanboys together. Before it was a massive "360 vs. PS3 vs. Wii vs. PC" battle royal, now thanks to the recent outbursts from "PC Elitists" over the news about Skyrim and the Zero Punctuation review of The Witcher 2, all the fanboys of every console are dropping their hate for one another and coming together to hate on one group instead of 3! It was like fighting a civil war while being invaded by a foreign country.

On a serious note, I hate fanboys in general for being so irrational that you would have an easier time arguing with a mentally retarded, 4 year old Donkey, but the PC fanboys are the most recent to start a drunken, half-assed bar fight with a group of people who were already building up rage from their own drunken, half-assed argument resulting in the ugliest and most pathetic drunken, half-assed slap fight.