A reflection; is Overwatch a good GAME?

[Zhukov]

Yes.

Obviously.

 

[Hawki]

Had to look up what "FTFY" actually stood for. Huh... 0_0

Are a lot of people enjoying it? Then yes, it's a good game.

Hate to be "that guy," but when films like Transformers exist and draw in millions, if not billions of dollars in revenue, is it fair to say that the levels of consumption of a product are equivalent to quality?

Certainly indicative of popularity mind you.

- A massive amount of story and character work that is VERY atypical of a PvP-orientated game, even compared to League of Legends or Halo

Also being "that guy" again, but would Halo really be considered PvP orientated? Multiplayer's a big part, but it's always had a singleplayer campaign, whereas Overwatch and LoL are exclusively multiplayer, with their lore being built up primarily in anciliary materials.

 

[DeliveryGodNoah_v1legacy]

Are a lot of people enjoying it? Then yes, it's a good game.

Hate to be "that guy," but when films like Transformers exist and draw in millions, if not billions of dollars in revenue, is it fair to say that the levels of consumption of a product are equivalent to quality?

Certainly indicative of popularity mind you.

So a game isn't good if people are enjoying it?

 

[Hawki]

Are a lot of people enjoying it? Then yes, it's a good game.

Hate to be "that guy," but when films like Transformers exist and draw in millions, if not billions of dollars in revenue, is it fair to say that the levels of consumption of a product are equivalent to quality?

Certainly indicative of popularity mind you.

So a game isn't good if people are enjoying it?

Didn't say that. Just saying that there's a lot of popular franchises that aren't regarded as being "good."

Hence the "I hate to be that guy" comment - I can't comment on Overwatch, I can only I say I enjoy the comics and shorts that have been released for it.

 

[Sassafrass]

Inverse skill relationship; many of the most effective characters - Pharah, Winston, D.Va, Mercy, etc. require little skill to actually be effective, while other Heroes that require more skill (such as Widow, McCree, Hanzos who don't spam Scatter etc.)

Show me a Hanzo that doesn't spam scatter arrow and I'll show you an effective RoadHog player after the last patch.
Also, I'd qualify Hanzo as a lower skill hero, as that headshot hitbox problem with him still fucking exists.

But anyway, the OP has some valid points. Matchmaking can be a chore sometimes, especially when the game decides to slap you with players level 25 and less, then stack the other team with players who are over level 500 and have more hours in the game than I do eating hot dinners. The netcoding can be a little wonky, but for me that's possibly down to the fact I play mostly on US servers while living in the UK. I WOULD play on EU servers, but the EU players have a fucking ungodly obsession with Genji, Hanzo, McCree and Widow regardless of what is required, and I hate playing Mercy/Lucio for too long nowadays. But I won't lie and say it's fine, when I've watched many killcams and been killed about a second I got around a corner now and then on EU servers.

Regardless however, I do enjoy the game still, but with a small footnote. I can not play it solo any more, it'd just frustrate the holy jesus out of me. I'm a pretty decent Mercy/Lucio and I can play at least one, maybe two characters in each class, but I just hate the types of players I normally end up with, the ones who instalock Genji/Widow/McCree/Hanzo, no matter what we need or what the map is. Plus Doomfist is just...so broken right now. Fucking 6 second cooldown on an ability that can one shot pretty much every hero outside of tanks? At least if the guy playing him fucks up, he's easy to take out.

 

[Epyc Wynn]

Inverse skill relationship; many of the most effective characters - Pharah, Winston, D.Va, Mercy, etc. require little skill to actually be effective, while other Heroes that require more skill (such as Widow, McCree, Hanzos who don't spam Scatter etc.)

Show me a Hanzo that doesn't spam scatter arrow and I'll show you an effective RoadHog player after the last patch.

DAAAAAAAAMN

Play of the game right here.

I miss old Roadhog.

 

[Paragon Fury]

Inverse skill relationship; many of the most effective characters - Pharah, Winston, D.Va, Mercy, etc. require little skill to actually be effective, while other Heroes that require more skill (such as Widow, McCree, Hanzos who don't spam Scatter etc.)

Show me a Hanzo that doesn't spam scatter arrow and I'll show you an effective RoadHog player after the last patch.

DAAAAAAAAMN

Play of the game right here.

I miss old Roadhog.

Old Roadhog was nerfed for the very same reasons that Pharah is likely to get nerfed soon; he was too easy to play, had extremely high rewards for minimal effort and countered just about everything, including the Heroes who were supposed to counter him. Literally the only thing he didn't counter was Widowmaker sniping, but she couldn't kill him fast enough to reliably stop him.

He could justifiably use a DMG buff vs. armor or a Max Health % damage modifier to turn him into the tank-buster tank will preventing him from going back to obliterating everyone, but he got nerfed for very legitimate reasons.

 

[Sassafrass]

Inverse skill relationship; many of the most effective characters - Pharah, Winston, D.Va, Mercy, etc. require little skill to actually be effective, while other Heroes that require more skill (such as Widow, McCree, Hanzos who don't spam Scatter etc.)

Show me a Hanzo that doesn't spam scatter arrow and I'll show you an effective RoadHog player after the last patch.

DAAAAAAAAMN

Play of the game right here.

I miss old Roadhog.

Old Roadhog was nerfed for the very same reasons that Pharah is likely to get nerfed soon; he was too easy to play, had extremely high rewards for minimal effort and countered just about everything, including the Heroes who were supposed to counter him. Literally the only thing he didn't counter was Widowmaker sniping, but she couldn't kill him fast enough to reliably stop him.

He could justifiably use a DMG buff vs. armor or a Max Health % damage modifier to turn him into the tank-buster tank will preventing him from going back to obliterating everyone, but he got nerfed for very legitimate reasons.

Oh, I agree, he needed the nerf, it's just they nerfed him way too much. I shouldn't be able to escape as Tracer with nearly all of my health after being hooked and shot in the face. Like you said, maybe a small damage buff will make him more frightening. Right now, he's just ult charge for me when I play Reaper or Junkrat.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Overwatch is the most overrated game that is for sure.

Pisses me off because it just showcases the kind of people running Blizzard now.

Legend of the Fat Princess was a better game and it cut as many corners as Portal did. Just thought I'd mention that vastly superior class-based MMO.

Fat Princess is an MMORPG?

 

[IceForce]

The prevailing conspiracy theory as to why Roadhog was nerfed in the way he was, is because the devs knew Doomfist was about to be added to the game. During their internal testing, they would've quickly realized that Hog would hard-counter DF to such an insane degree, that it would make DF basically unplayable.

DF needs to charge up his punch in order to one-shot anything, and while doing so he's mostly immobile. Combine this with his large hitbox, and a DF is one of the easiest targets to hook in the game.
Old Hog could instantly delete any hero up to 250hp (more, in some cases), which would make DF basically a free kill every time he tried to punch anything. So, for DF to even be remotely viable, Hog needed a nerf.

That's the theory, anyway.

 

[Catfood220]

Out of the 25 characters that Overwatch has, if you're only playing exclusively two or three of them, you're not playing Overwatch at its full potential.

This is why I like the Mystery Heroes mode, it introduces me to characters I haven't tried before. I recently discovered that I'm not bad with Junkrat and Roadhog and that Mei isn't as useless as I originally thought. Though, I will probably always be useless with Genji or Hanzo. And in a game where both teams rush at each other, I don't see the point of snipers. But that's just me.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

The prevailing conspiracy theory as to why Roadhog was nerfed in the way he was, is because the devs knew Doomfist was about to be added to the game. During their internal testing, they would've quickly realized that Hog would hard-counter DF to such an insane degree, that it would make DF basically unplayable.

DF needs to charge up his punch in order to one-shot anything, and while doing so he's mostly immobile. Combine this with his large hitbox, and a DF is one of the easiest targets to hook in the game.
Old Hog could instantly delete any hero up to 250hp (more, in some cases), which would make DF basically a free kill every time he tried to punch anything. So, for DF to even be remotely viable, Hog needed a nerf.

That's the theory, anyway.

Add to that the fact that roadhog can hook doomfist out of his punch animation, so if doomfist ever attacks roadhog head on he gets instantly murdered.

There's people currently complaining about how OP doomfist is, but doomfist isn't NEARLY as powerful as roadhog was. Roadhog's hook trumps most other heroes' abilities, his hook has more range than doomfist's punch, Roadhog can engage from range and relative safety while doomfist cannot, and roadhog can land his one hit kill every time he hooks someone with 250 hp or less regardless of positioning, but Doomfist can only one shot someone if he punches them into a wall. Add to this that he has less than half of roadhog's health, and no self-healing ability and he is much less powerful than pre-patch roadhog was.

The problem with roadhog isn't that he was able to one-shot people, it's that he could do so from relative safety. He could stand behind his team, pull people in, and destroy them completely and then heal himself any time he got tagged. Doomfist cannot do that, he has to directly engage enemies, and it's easy to punish an out of position doomfist who has overextended. That's why he's fair.

 

[IceForce]

Alright, let's have a serious talk about Pharah, because all the complaining surrounding this hero really grinds my gears.

She does not need a nerf. Never, not ever. And let me explain why, in simple bulletpoints.

- 'Anti-cancer'
Pharah is what I like to call the "anti-cancer" hero of Overwatch. We've all been there, up against teams of Torb, Symmetra, Mei, Bastion, Junkrat, Hanzo, etc. And Pharah counters all of them. These heroes are a pain in the ass for other ground-based heroes, but not for Pharah, (in the case of going up against a Torb turret or Bastion, you have to play smart with Pharah, peek-and-shoot, etc.)
If Pharah got a nerf in any way, these cancerous heroes would be played more and would be more difficult to counter. No fucking thanks.

- Hitboxes
Pharah has the biggest hitbox of any of the 200hp squishies (specifically, she has very 'wide' shoulders). In fact, it's close to (if not the same as) the size of Mei's/Reaper's hitboxes, but Pharah has 50 less hp than they do. This makes Pharah incredibly squishy. In fact, a grounded Pharah is basically dead meat (she's one of the easiest heroes to one-clip as Tracer, for instance).
Given her rather forgiving hitbox, most hitscans should be able to deal with her no problem. If she plays at mid-range, then go Soldier and burst fire, or go McCree and make sure your aim is on point. If Pharah plays further back, then go Widow and snipe her; two Widow bodyshots will kill Pharah, and given the aforementioned forgiving hitbox, even a bad Widow should be able to manage this.
And if the incoming rockets are still a problem, just run a D.Va and delete them out of thin air.

- Damage output
A common complaint I hear is that Pharah's damage output is too high. But in reality this couldn't be further from the truth. Pharah - contrary to popular belief - actually has the lowest damage output of any of the dps heroes.
Pharah fires rockets, exactly 1 every second, for 120 damage on a direct hit. This (very obviously) equates to 120dps. This is, interesting, incredibly low when you consider the dps values of all the other damage-dealing heroes.
Tracer, Soldier, McCree all do well over 200dps (assuming bodyshots and target is within effective range). Even Junkrat does exactly 200dps (grenades do 120 damage on a direct hit, and Junkrat fires 5 of them in 3 seconds doing an insane 600 damage in just 3 seconds).
Even Sombra's pea-shooter of a gun does about 180dps, (assuming bodyshots, all shots hit, and target is within effective range). Hell, Mercy's pistol does 100dps (5 shots every second, 20 damage per shot, assuming bodyshots), Pharah's effective damage output is only 20 more than Mercy's!
You'll notice the number of times I have to mention bodyshots in these numbers, and that's because the damage output on some heroes is even more if you can land headshots. But Pharah cannot headshot, so her maximum damage is still only 120dps.
Incidentally, Pharah's low damage output was the main reason why she was absolute garbage during the tank-heavy meta. Because 120dps is just way too low to kill a tank, especially multiple tanks. It's also why Pharah is bad at breaking barriers, even though Junkrat excels at it (despite both their projectiles doing the same damage on a direct hit, it's simply because Junkrat fires way quicker than Pharah does).

So yeah, when you break things down and really take a look at things, Pharah is actually perfectly balanced. She counters exactly what she was designed to counter, and she comes with her own set of vulnerabilities and drawbacks.

 

[Paragon Fury]

Alright, let's have a serious talk about Pharah, because all the complaining surrounding this hero really grinds my gears.

She does not need a nerf. Never, not ever. And let me explain why, in simple bulletpoints.

- 'Anti-cancer'
Pharah is what I like to call the "anti-cancer" hero of Overwatch. We've all been there, up against teams of Torb, Symmetra, Mei, Bastion, Junkrat, Hanzo, etc. And Pharah counters all of them. These heroes are a pain in the ass for other ground-based heroes, but not for Pharah, (in the case of going up against a Torb turret or Bastion, you have to play smart with Pharah, peek-and-shoot, etc.)
If Pharah got a nerf in any way, these cancerous heroes would be played more and would be more difficult to counter. No fucking thanks.

- Hitboxes
Pharah has the biggest hitbox of any of the 200hp squishies (specifically, she has very 'wide' shoulders). In fact, it's close to (if not the same as) the size of Mei's/Reaper's hitboxes, but Pharah has 50 less hp than they do. This makes Pharah incredibly squishy. In fact, a grounded Pharah is basically dead meat (she's one of the easiest heroes to one-clip as Tracer, for instance).
Given her rather forgiving hitbox, most hitscans should be able to deal with her no problem. If she plays at mid-range, then go Soldier and burst fire, or go McCree and make sure your aim is on point. If Pharah plays further back, then go Widow and snipe her; two Widow bodyshots will kill Pharah, and given the aforementioned forgiving hitbox, even a bad Widow should be able to manage this.
And if the incoming rockets are still a problem, just run a D.Va and delete them out of thin air.

- Damage output
A common complaint I hear is that Pharah's damage output is too high. But in reality this couldn't be further from the truth. Pharah - contrary to popular belief - actually has the lowest damage output of any of the dps heroes.
Pharah fires rockets, exactly 1 every second, for 120 damage on a direct hit. This (very obviously) equates to 120dps. This is, interesting, incredibly low when you consider the dps values of all the other damage-dealing heroes.
Tracer, Soldier, McCree all do well over 200dps (assuming bodyshots and target is within effective range). Even Junkrat does exactly 200dps (grenades do 120 damage on a direct hit, and Junkrat fires 5 of them in 3 seconds doing an insane 600 damage in just 3 seconds).
Even Sombra's pea-shooter of a gun does about 180dps, (assuming bodyshots, all shots hit, and target is within effective range). Hell, Mercy's pistol does 100dps (5 shots every second, 20 damage per shot, assuming bodyshots), Pharah's effective damage output is only 20 more than Mercy's!
You'll notice the number of times I have to mention bodyshots in these numbers, and that's because the damage output on some heroes is even more if you can land headshots. But Pharah cannot headshot, so her maximum damage is still only 120dps.
Incidentally, Pharah's low damage output was the main reason why she was absolute garbage during the tank-heavy meta. Because 120dps is just way too low to kill a tank, especially multiple tanks. It's also why Pharah is bad at breaking barriers, even though Junkrat excels at it (despite both their projectiles doing the same damage on a direct hit, it's simply because Junkrat fires way quicker than Pharah does).

So yeah, when you break things down and really take a look at things, Pharah is actually perfectly balanced. She counters exactly what she was designed to counter, and she comes with her own set of vulnerabilities and drawbacks.

You're wrong, and it's because of one basic thing you missed;

Aiming on the 3D plane, where Pharah operates, is much harder than the 2D-Limited 3D plane where everyone else is. Not only is this harder to track and hit consistently, but it takes your eyes off the battlefield, leaving you massively open.

Add into this Pharah actually out-DPSes all Heroes capable of hitting her except Widow, AND the fact that even if she misses she massively throws off your aim with the explosion jarring effect.

Her weapon is also easier to aim and hit with than the weapons of her counters; especially if they try to go for maximum DPS with headshots.

But where Pharah really becomes unbearable is when a Mercy pockets her - then she is basically invincible, unless you have a god-tier McCree or Widowmaker.

And since McCree, Widow and S76 all take significantly more skill to take Pharah down than it takes for Pharah to kill them, this is where you run into the problem.

 

[Wrex Brogan]

...wait, bad matchmaking makes it a bad game? Are... are you sure? This feels less like an 'Overwatch is a bad game' and more 'I DON'T LIKE OVERWATCH BECAUSE OF X' thread. Like, just not a lot of objective game analysis going on here, everything you listed are subjective complaints and nothing really... conclusive.

I mean, hell, is Pharah that bad that you'd condemn the whole game because of her? Shit, I've shot Pharah's out of the air with Junkrat grenades before, she's honestly not that hard to counter unless she's being played by someone with skill. And speaking of skill, I feel that 'Inverse Skill' complaint is a bit hollow since, uhhh, wasn't that put into the game to begin with given characters like Soldier 76? And also utter bullshit given the vast gulf of difference between an unskilled player playing a simple character and a skilled one?

Also, obligatory 'it's literally nothing but gameplay how can it fail to be a game' comment. Unless you spend a lot of time on loading screens and menus, that is.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Chock me into the "Yes it is a good game" pile.

In fact it's been my goto game whenever I want to play something at the expense of everything else.

 

[Epyc Wynn]

I quit playing due to the Roadhog nerf and Doomfist being used as a replacement to Roadhog's one-hit-kill ability; I didn't want Roadhog replaced with a new one-hit-killer I wanted to continue enjoying my favorite character. Also Pharah is really weak I'm surprised anyone bothers maining her; surprised she hasn't been buffed really. Shit damage output combined with shit health and the strong point of her character is knock-back that more often than not doesn't make a difference unless you have just the right map at just the right location. Anyway, I am mad on a personal level at Jeff Kaplan for ruining a character so blatantly. I do not believe for a moment Jeff remotely understands the thought that went into Roadhog's character and why his gameplay abilities were good; if he really did then he wouldn't have let that stupid nerf slide.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I quit playing due to the Roadhog nerf and Doomfist being used as a replacement to Roadhog's one-hit-kill ability; I didn't want Roadhog replaced with a new one-hit-killer I wanted to continue enjoying my favorite character. Also Pharah is really weak I'm surprised anyone bothers maining her; surprised she hasn't been buffed really. Shit damage output combined with shit health and the strong point of her character is knock-back that more often than not doesn't make a difference unless you have just the right map at just the right location. Anyway, I am mad on a personal level at Jeff Kaplan for ruining a character so blatantly. I do not believe for a moment Jeff remotely understands the thought that went into Roadhog's character and why his gameplay abilities were good; if he really did then he wouldn't have let that stupid nerf slide.

You know, I'm really happy with how butt-hurt you are about this. Roadhog was a very low skill character that was way too easy to play in an incredibly safe manner. He was a low skill cap counter to a bunch of high skill heroes and I'm really happy that that the people who mained him are now quitting the game because they can't deal with having to put actual effort in.

I didn't think he needed as drastic a nerf as he got, but MAN, it feels really satisfying that his ability to solo got so completely obliterated after he's been such a broken mess for so long.

His hook used to go through solid objects man. THROUGH SOLID FUCKING OBJECTS. The rest of us had to put up with that crap for almost a year, now we get to enjoy him being useless for a time and I for one welcome the change.

 

[IceForce]

Ah yes, I can still remember getting hooked through the floor and around two corners. Fond memories.

 

[Epyc Wynn]

I quit playing due to the Roadhog nerf and Doomfist being used as a replacement to Roadhog's one-hit-kill ability; I didn't want Roadhog replaced with a new one-hit-killer I wanted to continue enjoying my favorite character. Also Pharah is really weak I'm surprised anyone bothers maining her; surprised she hasn't been buffed really. Shit damage output combined with shit health and the strong point of her character is knock-back that more often than not doesn't make a difference unless you have just the right map at just the right location. Anyway, I am mad on a personal level at Jeff Kaplan for ruining a character so blatantly. I do not believe for a moment Jeff remotely understands the thought that went into Roadhog's character and why his gameplay abilities were good; if he really did then he wouldn't have let that stupid nerf slide.

You know, I'm really happy with how butt-hurt you are about this. Roadhog was a very low skill character that was way too easy to play in an incredibly safe manner. He was a low skill cap counter to a bunch of high skill heroes and I'm really happy that that the people who mained him are now quitting the game because they can't deal with having to put actual effort in.

I didn't think he needed as drastic a nerf as he got, but MAN, it feels really satisfying that his ability to solo got so completely obliterated after he's been such a broken mess for so long.

His hook used to go through solid objects man. THROUGH SOLID FUCKING OBJECTS. The rest of us had to put up with that crap for almost a year, now we get to enjoy him being useless for a time and I for one welcome the change.

So you not only believe the nerf was bad, but believe it is causing Roadhog mains to quit the game?

Gosh, that sounds like a serious issue. Blizzard should really fix that.