A Response to God of War 4

Arnoxthe1

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I'm actually making a response to this video:


Specifically, I wanna state why it's somewhat full of crap. He makes two big points here (and one small one) that irked me a lot.

For starters, Kratos' son is greatly designed but is not innovative at all and neither is the narrative theme. Even if we totally ignored The Last of Us, Bioshock Infinite already had a companion AI in Elizabeth, although admittedly, Bioshock Infinite is not about the father/son theme really.

Next is the combat. Now, perhaps compared to the original God of Wars, God of War 4's combat is better, certainly. But it's still not on the same level as Ninja Gaiden Black or II. I don't know why everyone suddenly developed Alzheimer's when it comes to Ninja Gaiden, but NG made so many strides and innovations with the third person hack-and-slash genre that it's utterly mind boggling that they're now almost entirely ignored in favor of Dark Souls style combat. It's bullshit.

And now, the last point I want to contest. We, as gamers, don't mind innovation at all, but when a series becomes popular, certain core parts of it become familiar to gamers. That there are core things that they rightfully come to expect out of a series. For example, Halo has and has always had regenerating shields. Doom has and has always had demons and Hell. Zelda has and has always had third person sword combat of some form. These are all things we've come to expect when we see another entry in a series. The big problem comes when we buy something like, say, Banjo-Kazooie and get a vehicle-building game instead. And I say this actually as a huge fan of Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts.

The problem comes when you change the body of a game in a series so much as to be almost unrecognizable from what it was. Then the relevant question comes to us. "Why didn't they just make a separate IP and put the mechanics and/or story they wanted to tell in that instead?" Because someone didn't want to risk selling the game without any brand recognition, and that's pretty much it. To say that we should just accept that a developer/publisher completely change what someone's favorite game series is all about is total shit.

Making a new IP is risky, I get it, but we don't need you shoving one game series that was made for one mold into an entirely different mold. We will accept and even adore innovation, even if it doesn't come in a familiar package. The thing is though that innovation alone is not gonna cut it. You have to make a good game around it. If you repurpose one game series for another, at best, you will split the fanbase. I've seen it happen with Halo 5, I've seen it happen with UT2004, and I've seen it happen with Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts.

God of War 4 may be an alright game, maybe even a decent one. And I will assent that it does prove linear experiences can sell and be well liked, but otherwise, it is no different and should not be treated as such. Oh, and BTW, fuck naming remakes the same as the original game. Just stop.
 

Arnoxthe1

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Arnoxthe1 said:
Zelda has and has always had third person sword combat of some form.

edit: Ah, people refer to 2d planes as third person perspective
How odd
 

Chimpzy_v1legacy

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Gauche said:
Arnoxthe1 said:
Zelda has and has always had third person sword combat of some form.
edit: Ah, people refer to 2d planes as third person perspective
How odd
If you take third-person view as meaning "a point of view where the viewpoint is outside any of the actors/playable characters", then yes, all Zeldas are indeed third-person. Where this viewpoint is located (behind, from the side, isometric or top-down) doesn't really matter, nor does being 2D or 3D change that the viewpoint is from a third-person.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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wouldn't it have been far more efficient to message the tubeyou video human directly than post a thread on a website they most likely won't visit?

nevertheless, I disagree with both sides

Editeboo: hang on, I think I spoke wrong with no combativeness or self-assured arrogance to blend in with modern day web-speaks. How about; you're both wrong!...?

*Head collapse in resignation paws*

Ugh, it'll have to do
 

Arnoxthe1

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Chimpzy said:
Gauche said:
Arnoxthe1 said:
Zelda has and has always had third person sword combat of some form.
edit: Ah, people refer to 2d planes as third person perspective
How odd
If you take third-person view as meaning "a point of view where the viewpoint is outside any of the actors/playable characters", then yes, all Zeldas are indeed third-person. Where this viewpoint is located (behind, from the side, isometric or top-down) doesn't really matter, nor does being 2D or 3D change that the viewpoint is from a third-person.
Yeah, I should of clarified further
Thank you for the informative post
 

Casual Shinji

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I'm really sorry, but I can't hear you over how freaking magnificant this game is.
Arnoxthe1 said:
The problem comes when you change the body of a game in a series so much as to be almost unrecognizable from what it was. Then the relevant question comes to us. "Why didn't they just make a separate IP and put the mechanics and/or story they wanted to tell in that instead?" Because someone didn't want to risk selling the game without any brand recognition, and that's pretty much it. To say that we should just accept that a developer/publisher completely change what someone's favorite game series is all about is total shit.
How is it unrecognizable? Because of the difference in camera angle and the lack of chain blades? This game is God of War through and through, from the hectic and fast combat encounters, to the clever environmental puzzles, to the epic sense of scale. The only real difference being it's now the size of three Zelda games stacked ontop of eachother. And judging from the overwhelming reception, I'd say the majority hasn't just accepted it, but wholeheartedly embraced it.
Ezekiel said:
The camera is shit and this isn't Kratos.
You finally played it then? Because you wouldn't just make claims like that without knowing what you're talking about, now would you?
 

Elijin

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Casual Shinji said:
Ezekiel said:
I have eyes.
Okay then, so you don't know what you're talking about.
You know how arbitrators are discouraged from engaging with the thing they arbitrate so they dont become bias? Well Ezekiel is an arbitrator of fun and enjoying things. Nothing escapes his diligent gaze as he makes the internet a better place!
 

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Arnoxthe1 said:
I enjoyed God of War 4, but take what Cleanprice says with a grain of salt. He known for stretching, not backing up, or over exaggerating facts. Like the "single-player is dead" thing. For someone like him who hates the horrible practices of the AAA industry, he sure as hell enjoys quoting their idiotic statements and backing them up as facts or objective truths. For example, in a previous video about God of War, he claimed that the 3D hack n slash genre in wake of DMC was always niche. No it wasn't, but certain game companies like Capcom and Koei Tecmo made it that way; thanks to their own screw up trying to appeal to Western, casual, Call of Duty audiences. I.E, the ones who never touch those type of games to begin with, at the expense of alienating their original or Japanese fan base. Cleanprice seemed to ignore the success of games like Nier: Automata, Wolfenstiein II, Doom, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Crash Trilogy, Super Mario Oddysey, Witcher 3, Shadow of the Colossus remake, Sonic Mania,Nioh, and other games, indie or AAA. He knows some things, but not a lot. It's why I don't subscribe to him or Downward Thrust Gaming.

Oh, and I never liked NG II; it was too much a broken mess at launch. Not to mention there was a patch that made the game crashed if you downloaded a certain mission packed, and got to a certain boss and did not skip the cut-scene. THe other option was going in to your 360's hard drive and doing a certain button combination. After that I refused to play the game for a long while. Yes, it was eventually fixed with a patch, but the fact it took them so long to do it was a major eyesore. It's better than 3, but that is not much of an achievement.
 

Hawki

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Arnoxthe1 said:
And now, the last point I want to contest. We, as gamers, don't mind innovation at all, but when a series becomes popular, certain core parts of it become familiar to gamers.
Which isn't a reason in of itself not to change things.

That there are core things that they rightfully come to expect out of a series. For example, Halo has and has always had regenerating shields.
And is it obliged to?

Do marines have regenerating shields? Do troopers? Airmen? ODSTs? If any Halo FPS is expected to have regenerating shields because it's expected, then it's crippling the potential of the setting (yes, ODST was a thing, but you were effectively playing a toned down Spartan).

Also, Halo Wars and the Spartan series aren't FPS games - they technically have regenerating shields, but they play extremely differently. Are they any less a part of the series/universe?

Doom has and has always had demons and Hell.
And is it obliged to?

Doom's setting is absurdly stagnant. We have the original series from Doom 1 to Doom 64. Then Doom 3, which rebooted the series. Then Doom 2016, which is both a reboot and a continuation of Doom 64 given that the Doom Slayer was revealed to be the same guy as in Doom 1 onwards (which opens up a can of worms, but I refuse to put more thought into this than id does). And guess what? We're on Mars (again), fighting demons (again), with the next Doom game practically guaranteed to take place on Earth (again). What's extremely frustrating is that Doom 2016 hints at a world beyond Hell (Argent D'Nur, the Night Sentinels, etc.), but refuses to do anything with it. Based on what's been hinted of the next Doom game, it'll likely still refuse to do anything with it, and play it safe.

Zelda has and has always had third person sword combat of some form.
I don't disagree, but I'm fine with a Zelda game that breaks the mould.

The problem comes when you change the body of a game in a series so much as to be almost unrecognizable from what it was. Then the relevant question comes to us. "Why didn't they just make a separate IP and put the mechanics and/or story they wanted to tell in that instead?" Because someone didn't want to risk selling the game without any brand recognition, and that's pretty much it. To say that we should just accept that a developer/publisher completely change what someone's favorite game series is all about is total shit.
Completely disagree.

I care about whether a game is good. If it fits in with the setting, then it can bear the name of that setting - maybe not get a numbered entry, or maybe use a subtitle to differentiate it, but that's about it. Warcraft I-III are RTS game, WoW is an MMORPG - they're still all Warcraft games.

I've seen it happen with Halo 5,
How did Halo 5 differ from anything? Still a FPS, still has shields, still has everything.
 

Casual Shinji

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Elijin said:
You know how arbitrators are discouraged from engaging with the thing they arbitrate so they dont become bias? Well Ezekiel is an arbitrator of fun and enjoying things. Nothing escapes his diligent gaze as he makes the internet a better place!
I'd be okay with that if he knew what he was talking about, i.e. played the game, or says he doesn't like the look of it. But just like in the review thread he's making claims of how terrible the game is when he never even touched it.
Ezekiel said:
Casual Shinji said:
Okay then, so you don't know what you're talking about.
I suppose you'd taste a turd before having the confidence to say it's bad. Whatever.
Yeah, reach a little further, maybe you'll eventually start making some sense.
 

Arnoxthe1

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Ezekiel said:
Casual Shinji said:
Ezekiel said:
I have eyes.
Okay then, so you don't know what you're talking about.
I suppose you'd taste a turd before having the confidence to say it's bad. Whatever.

Edit: My analogy isn't meant to say this game is bad. I'm sure it's fine, maybe even good. But I've played with enough of these zoomed in cameras and seen enough of this game to know it would have been better without. I also don't want the forced walk and talk crap in my God of War.

The opening 5-10 minutes establishes the story, and then it?s quicker than any GoW before it. You could never sprint at-will in the old games, and the camera has a lot more slack than the shoulder-clinging TPS?ers like Uncharted or TLoU. It?s like it?s on an elastic cord during combat and is often closer to the Souls? perspective, with the main difference being it does center behind you when you aim or block with a shield. I have camera recentering turned off so I can attack flanking enemies without the viewpoint automatically changing, which can get disorienting.
 

FakeSympathy

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I have to agree with everyone here; Single-player games aren't dead.

Just because gaming industry wants to screw over the consumers by capitalizing on "AAA" multiplayer-focused games, that doesn't mean we don't love single player games. Instead of listening to what we want, those guys are telling us what we want, but we are too smart to fall for that.
 

Casual Shinji

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Ezekiel said:
Edit: My analogy isn't meant to say this game is bad. I'm sure it's fine, maybe even good. But I've played with enough of these zoomed in cameras and seen enough of this game to know it would have been better without. I also don't want the forced walk and talk crap in my God of War.
Well, guess what this new game plays like; God of War. Not The Last of Us, not even Dark Souls, but God of War. As "cinematic" as this game might appear, it controls just as snappy as the previous games in the series. This is why Naughty Dog had better bring something truly special to the table come this year's E3, because Santa Monica Studios just made a game that has story and character nuance of The Last of Us, but with the tense, snappy action content of Resident Evil 4, the world size of a Zelda, with the aesthetic of God of War dailed up to eleven.
 

Arnoxthe1

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Casual Shinji said:
Ezekiel said:
Edit: My analogy isn't meant to say this game is bad. I'm sure it's fine, maybe even good. But I've played with enough of these zoomed in cameras and seen enough of this game to know it would have been better without. I also don't want the forced walk and talk crap in my God of War.
Well, guess what this new game plays like; God of War. Not The Last of Us, not even Dark Souls, but God of War. As "cinematic" as this game might appear, it controls just as snappy as the previous games in the series. This is why Naughty Dog had better bring something truly special to the table come this year's E3, because Santa Monica Studios just made a game that has story and character nuance of The Last of Us, but with the tense, snappy action content of Resident Evil 4, the world size of a Zelda, with the aesthetic of God of War dailed up to eleven.
The Last of Us had good characters but that was about it. Everything else about it except maybe the graphics was mediocre.

As to God of War 4, to claim that it's this perfectly in-line sequel to the God of War games before it is just complete nonsense. Just because God of War 4 shares a couple similarities with its predecessors does not automatically make it a God of War game.

CoCage said:
Oh, and I never liked NG II; it was too much a broken mess at launch. Not to mention there was a patch that made the game crashed if you downloaded a certain mission packed, and got to a certain boss and did not skip the cut-scene. THe other option was going in to your 360's hard drive and doing a certain button combination. After that I refused to play the game for a long while. Yes, it was eventually fixed with a patch, but the fact it took them so long to do it was a major eyesore. It's better than 3, but that is not much of an achievement.
I agree that NGII needed more polishing but regardless, it's still the best hack-and-slasher we've had since... Ever. Nothing has topped it, although NGB comes VERY close, but NGB and NGII emphasize two different styles of play, so they're hard to compare. The most egregious thing about the combat by far was the bloody Incendiary Shruiken Ninja. You had to spam I-frame moves just to survive their ridiculous never-ending barrage. However, even then, once you've mastered it, you could definitely deal with them.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Wouldn't it make more sense to just comment in Youtube or looking him up on Twitter if this is about replying to this dude?

Ezekiel said:
I couldn't finish the video.
You couldn't even start the game.
 

Arnoxthe1

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Johnny Novgorod said:
Wouldn't it make more sense to just comment in Youtube or looking him up on Twitter if this is about replying to this dude?
Comments are lost in the swarm and I don't so much want to reply to him as address the things he's saying because I've heard a lot of praise for GoW4.