A Skip Button for Boss Fights

TheMysteriousGX

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CritialGaming said:
If you are going to point out all the games more successful then you are missing the point. Of course if you compare these games to the powerhouses of the industry they don't hold a candle. But the FACT is that these "ultra" hard experiences ARE successful and do sell very well. So the whole crutch of your point here is faulty.
Never said that they weren't successful. Jamie said
Ofcourse not. Go ahead and create such game. Problem here is that this particular gentleman just wanted his own way to play and win in chess game not a slum-dunk-chess game. Likely nobody beside him and select few people would like to play.
But sure, if you want, go on and do so. Create new generes, develop new game types. It is all gaming is about. If it turns out this figurative slum-dunk-chess is more popular than actual chess, great! You added diversity to sports/gaming.
And I was pointing out that his description was more in line with the ultra hard than the casual experience.
CritialGaming said:
Yeah it is my bad. Internet arguments don't follow facts or reason, they follow imaginary measuring sticks set and moved freely by whoever is making the argument at that moment.
Dude, we're talking about the accessibility of difficult single player games and you tried to use massively popular free-to-play multiplayer games that literally any mouth-breathing casual can and does play as support for the ultra-Hard? Stones and glass houses.

I don said:
A counterpoint to this would be CSGO, which has sold 35 million copies to date. I think that makes it the best selling PC game of all time. It has little to do with skipping boss fights, but I find the discussion of easy vs. hard games more interesting.

But honestly regarding sales figures, it's not really useful for gamers. It's for publishers and their shareholders. It's more of a measure of marketing power, or how many baseless assumptions can you convey to the consumer about a game, without actually having them play it.
Counterpoint to what? CS:GO is very popular, much like the original Counter Strike, but it isn't a hard game. Anybody who boots it up can get to the end of it. Depending on the server, they don't even have to press any buttons to get to the end of the game. It's as hard as DotA, which is as hard as Overwatch, high is as hard as Splatoon, which is as hard as TF2.

Unless there's some single player mode I dunno about, obviously.
 

CritialGaming

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altnameJag said:
My point about DOTA and Lol was that getting into those games is very difficult. Not only because the community is notoriously toxic, but additionally the mechanics are complex. That was the point about difficulty there, and yet they are extremely popular.

But if you wanna just compare to single player paid experiences then fine. But you've put so many stipulations upon the requirement that yeah, with those rules then fine obviously the ultra hard games aren't as successful.

If I can't use Souls games as examples because they are "AAA" okay. How about some indies like, Hollow Knight, Dead Cells, Enter the Gungeon, Salt and Sanctuary. All very difficult indie titles that have seen great successes (for indies).

Anyway you slice it, the truth is that people DO want challenging experiences. While not everyone will want difficulty for every game, every time, they do want these challenging experiences. And the games that offer those experiences do sell, despite having "easy" modes or not.

Either way it doesn't matter because this was about skip buttons, and skip buttons are 100% bullshit. Cheat code your way through it, play on casual difficulty, whatever I don't care. Just don't skip it.
 
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altnameJag said:
Counterpoint to what? CS:GO is very popular, much like the original Counter Strike, but it isn't a hard game. Anybody who boots it up can get to the end of it. Depending on the server, they don't even have to press any buttons to get to the end of the game. It's as hard as DotA, which is as hard as Overwatch, high is as hard as Splatoon, which is as hard as TF2.

Unless there's some single player mode I dunno about, obviously.
The counterpoint was to LoL and Dota being free. CSGO being the top selling PC game of all time surprised me, especially considering its outdated early 2000's gunplay.

Like I said, I'm not talking about skipping boss fights, but rather the market of hard games. Presenting your game as competitive or "hardcore" works. I just want to make the point that these markets are pretty big. IMO they are also more interesting and are of greater value than something you blast through in 6 hours and chuck aside.

Source and 1.6 weren't nearly as popular as CSGO is now. In fact CSGO used to be the least popular of them all with like 20,000 consecutive players, and I thought it was a flop. Yet somehow CSGO exploded with a ridiculous amount of new players. Now you have kids realizing that CoD wasn't as "MLG" as it they thought it was jumping aboard. They fixed it by balancing the game around the competitive scene and the feedback of competitive players.

Second reason is forced matchmaking and ranking system, forcing people to play with competitive rules, so that the casual CS player was exposed to competitive CS side. Back then you had to download a 3rd party client, which I would assume very few people would be interested in. Add in a replay system and marketing for tournaments with big prize pools, and you have the quintessential competitive fps shooter today.

In the end games such as LoL, Dota, and CSGO are so popular because of prestige and the MMR treadmill. They are games where being good is a badge of honor, as silly as it sounds. They are games that people play well past the point of being fun, simply because they want to be a certain rank. Playing these games casually is not really a thing, and playing casually while matchmaking is a punishment, as you will fall into potato tier.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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CritialGaming said:
altnameJag said:
My point about DOTA and Lol was that getting into those games is very difficult. Not only because the community is notoriously toxic, but additionally the mechanics are complex. That was the point about difficulty there, and yet they are extremely popular.
"Getting into" DotA and LoL is just a matter of booting up the client. Then you can play the whole thing, regardless of skill level.
But if you wanna just compare to single player paid experiences then fine. But you've put so many stipulations upon the requirement that yeah, with those rules then fine obviously the ultra hard games aren't as successful.

If I can't use Souls games as examples because they are "AAA" okay.
wha...?
How about some indies like, Hollow Knight, Dead Cells, Enter the Gungeon, Salt and Sanctuary. All very difficult indie titles that have seen great successes (for indies).

Anyway you slice it, the truth is that people DO want challenging experiences. While not everyone will want difficulty for every game, every time, they do want these challenging experiences. And the games that offer those experiences do sell, despite having "easy" modes or not.
I...never said they didn't want challenging experiences? I'm mostly arguing that adding easy modes or skip bossfight buttons aren't going to hurt those experiences, because they wouldn't. Hell, people add their own challenge modes to "easy" games all the time, and it doesn't hurt the easy games.
Either way it doesn't matter because this was about skip buttons, and skip buttons are 100% bullshit. Cheat code your way through it, play on casual difficulty, whatever I don't care. Just don't skip it.
And I put unskippable boss fights on the same level as unskippable cutscenes.

Something I don't really care about but wouldn't mind if other people could get past them.
I don said:
In the end games such as LoL, Dota, and CSGO are so popular because of prestige and the MMR treadmill. They are games where being good is a badge of honor, as silly as it sounds. They are games that people play well past the point of being fun, simply because they want to be a certain rank. Playing these games casually is not really a thing, and playing casually while matchmaking is a punishment, as you will fall into potato tier.
Not saying hard games aren't popular, just saying that low skill levels are a deterrent to "finishing the game".

Unless there's something I'm missing, being a total potato doesn't prevent you from experiencing the totality of the game.

Heck, Splatoon 2 might be more hardcore than CS:GO, considering they gate off a play mode until you're skilled enough.
 

CritialGaming

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altnameJag said:
CritialGaming said:
altnameJag said:
My point about DOTA and Lol was that getting into those games is very difficult. Not only because the community is notoriously toxic, but additionally the mechanics are complex. That was the point about difficulty there, and yet they are extremely popular.
"Getting into" DotA and LoL is just a matter of booting up the client. Then you can play the whole thing, regardless of skill level.
By that logic, getting into Bloodborne or a Souls game is as easy as putting the disc in and hitting "start".

Although if you think you can play the whole thing by just being a mouth breather, then that isn't true for the Souls games OR those Mobas. Because without skill you can't win either of those games. (Although in multiplayer you can technically be carried to victory in both of those games so either way it washes out your point).
 

TheMysteriousGX

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CritialGaming said:
altnameJag said:
CritialGaming said:
altnameJag said:
My point about DOTA and Lol was that getting into those games is very difficult. Not only because the community is notoriously toxic, but additionally the mechanics are complex. That was the point about difficulty there, and yet they are extremely popular.
"Getting into" DotA and LoL is just a matter of booting up the client. Then you can play the whole thing, regardless of skill level.
By that logic, getting into Bloodborne or a Souls game is as easy as putting the disc in and hitting "start".
Unless I missed something, you cannot get to the end of Bloodborne or Dark Souls without beating the bosses.
Although if you think you can play the whole thing by just being a mouth breather, then that isn't true for the Souls games OR those Mobas. Because without skill you can't win either of those games. (Although in multiplayer you can technically be carried to victory in both of those games so either way it washes out your point).
What content is locked behind a skill wall in LoL or DotA?
 

CritialGaming

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altnameJag said:
What content is locked behind a skill wall in LoL or DotA?
Winning. Earning points. I mean I guess you can grind out whatever characters you want using the pathetic amounts of IP you earn from losing (in League), but doing so on solely losing is an insane amount of work. So content locked behind a skill wall I would say is extra characters for you to play as.

I know DOTA gives you every character outright, but isn't there loot rewards for winning?

Additionally, if you continue to play with such a mindblowing lack of skill, people will report you for "feeding" and being bad on purpose which can get you banned from at least playing with anything other than bots. Maybe the whole game.

Skill is expected to be developed as you play otherwise you will be hindered in some fashion.
 

Leap That Wall

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This is my first post here, so... Hi, I guess.

I've been thinking about this issue a lot since it came out. Initially I thought that absolutely no way, no games should ever have this option and if you can't master the game's mechanics to beat it then you could go fuck yourself. However, the more I think about it, the more I realize that you still can go fuck yourself even with the skip button. If people legitimately don't want to grasp the game as it's meant to be played (and I'm not including disabled people here because this is an entirely different discussion), nothing in the world will force them to. Maybe the skip button or other automatic win mode is even better than an easy mode where the enemy AI is full on idiotic and you'll only die of natural causes.

So I don't dislike it all. I won't use it and I think it's kind of cheap, but in a way it reminds me of cheat codes in older games. If people have their fun like that, who am I to judge? I say go for it, I do however have only one reservation: don't dish out warnings in the game if you die repeatedly at some point. I always find that obnoxious, like in newer Mario games if you die a lot at some point it will give you the option of the God powerup or in God of War games (I think, I don't remember which game it was) where it would flash a message saying "this game has an easy mode you know". I find that condescending and immersion breaking. Lock that shit behind a few menus and I'm all in.