A View From The Road: Boldly Going Nowhere

[Tolerant Fanboy]

Part of me wants a Harry Potter MMORPG to exist if only so we can finally see the Hufflepuff common room.

That said, if someone can manage to adapt the MMORPG paradigm of "kill things, get reward, repeat," to an IP and not the other way around, I will be quite impressed. (I know of very few memorpagas, so feel free to hammer me with "I can't believe you forgot X" replies. )

 

[Robo_Doc]

What's most interesting to me is how Myst Online: URU Live (which recently went back online) followed the philosophy of exploration and discovery over action and looting, something Mr. Funk seems to be touching on with the whole Star Trek IP thing. I wonder how something like URU will stand up in today's market of action-adventure MMOs.

 

[Starke]

i wholeheartedly agree, now star trek may be the only MMORPG i haven't played but unless they took the heavy rain approach it would always be untrue to its roots, which is why it never should have materialized, an single player star trek game could be great, give the ip to bioware tell them to forget all they knew about ME and you could have a great dialog based game with a little action here and there.

but a star trek game where each murder isnt justified or have a reason beyond xp and maybe an upgrade is just weird.

swaki would love to see the forgotten star trek episode where Picard goes on a killing spree for a new hat

Honestly, anyone but Bioware. Star Trek has always been about complex moral decisions. If you think Bioware's up to the task, I'd ask you review Shamus' plot analysis of Mass Effect 2. Bioware has proven incapible of presenting complex moral situations. In the words of Yahtzee it's "Mother Teresa or Baby Eating" with Bioware. Obsidian or even Bethesda would be a much better choice for the caliber of writing you're talking about. Bioware does a lot of things right, moral choices, the very nexus of Star Trek, isn't one of them.

That said, the game has the potential to evolve into that. There's a dialog system that could be tweaked into a genuine RPG format. There are non-combat missions, though, at the moment, a lot of players are shouting those down because there isn't really a lot of variety to them.

 

[Telperion]

This article reminded me once again of CCP North America: that part of CCP, which is currently working on World of Darkness Online. Considering White Wolf's IP - and I own about 70 RPG books to back that claim up - combat is only a minor part of what makes games like Vampire: the Requiem great. I desperately want to the creators of a very successful MMO to bring something different, something that works, to the table.

Time will tell.

 

[KeyMaster45]

You make the comment about how developers need to move away from the warcraft model and I just have to ask how?

I can't lie to you I don't see how you can make an mmo that doesn't in some way make you think of WoW. I can look at the classes and break them down into what they correspond to in WoW, I look at quest and chat interfaces and think "christ just do it like wow so this doesn't suck so hard". I mean the whole method of play we're just so stuck in it to show us something new would be like showing the iPhone to a cave man using smoke signals to talk over long distances.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I can't imagine a world where MMO's don't follow the WoW model

While I'm at it I'll drag up another thing about other MMO's. Nice graphics are great and all but I for one have trouble running most MMO's that aren't WoW. I can run WoW at 60fps with the graphics set to melt face, but games like Champions, Warhammer, or Star Trek my computer chokes. Maybe I'm just behind the times but I know one thing that keeps me playing WoW is I can view their world in all its graphical glory, but other MMO's set the graphics bar so high I'm forced to play a game made up of blurry pixels and metallic skinned characters. So my question to those developers is why should I have to buy a new graphics card to play your game? Why can't you recognize that the average players can't afford to buy a new card every time a new game is released?

All I ever hear is gameplay this, gameplay that. Man screw your gameplay it doesn't mean bupkis without decent sound and art, and writing direction. I want a soundtrack that expresses the mood for the area, is subtle enough so that it feels like it naturally belongs there, and f'ing loops so it doesn't die away after 2 minutes and leaves me listening to birds chirping and the wind whistling through the trees. I want the world around me to be vibrant and alive, it doesn't have to look like I'm viewing it through a freshly cleaned window it can be STYLIZED or be less technically demanding and still look really freaking good. Last but most certainly not least, make me care! God almighty what happened to story writing for games, especially MMO's? Make your story suck less, a well written story in an MMO is not only conveyed through the quests but it also blends with the quest objectives. You don't need to have your NPC tell me they need 10 wolf hides just have them say "I need some wolf hides to make your cloak of might awesomeness" and then have at the bottom the objective "collect 10 wolf hides for your mighty cloak of awesomeness".

It's like MMO's developers are schizophrenic, they try so hard NOT to be like WoW that they forget how to design a good game. You know what, I wish more MMO's were like WoW because WoW got it right. Its not gritty and realistic, its not overly complicated (you've got stats you need, they go up, you suck less), they spent time weaving their quest stories, and their bloody soundtrack loops(are you listening to me cryptic?).

I've heard alot that WoW took alot of stuff from Everquest, I don't know I never played it. You know what though? I say kudos to them on that because now Everquest is old news and Blizzard is the one making money hand over fist.

Good grief where was I going with this, oh well my nerd rage at MMO's has subsided for now so I guess I'm done.

 

[bakonslayer]

Star Trek: Online - "Boldly going forward, because popularity can't find reverse."
Thanks Dr. Demento.

 

[gothwalk]

Two points:

1) The Firefly MMO licence exists, but it's pretty much stalled at the moment. http://www.fireflymmo.com/ will tell you as much about it as is out there, since there isn't even an official site.

2) If you're looking for different gameplay in MMOs, look at EVE, and A Tale In The Desert. Both very different to WoW, and each successful in their own markets.

 

[Bruden]

Ok, a couple points, as people have said you're in the middle of a very heated war in STO, so that helps understand why there's so much violence involved. Another is, the game is set after DS9 and the end of the TNG movies, all of which have been embroiled in multiple nasty wars leading into this game, meaning while you might not have seen an episode of TNG where Picard went on a murderous rampage, we certainly saw alot of it in the movies. And finally, lets face it, the people who actually care about the away missions are in the minority. The people that sign on for STO are all about ship to ship battles, STO's player base is formed off everyone's desire for Star Trek Bridge Commander on a grand scale. Many of us former bridge commanders started playing EVE simply because we wanted that bridge commander MMO, and now that STO is finally here, delivering it, I would not be surprised to see EVE's playerbase take a hit.

 

[JEBWrench]

What's most interesting to me is how Myst Online: URU Live (which recently went back online) followed the philosophy of exploration and discovery over action and looting, something Mr. Funk seems to be touching on with the whole Star Trek IP thing. I wonder how something like URU will stand up in today's market of action-adventure MMOs.

Honestly? In the view of most of the gaming community, it doesn't.

Plenty of people play an exploration game and come up with, "Okay, so what do you actually DO?"

That's one of the reasons why Uru failed (twice) on a pay-to-play model. Nobody wants to play a story-based MMO and pay for it.

 

[dead_rebel]

The medium decides the delivery.

A book has ALOT of fat in terms of storytelling and adjectives while a movie will compress the book into a capsule sized helping cutting out all the meat.

While in movies and series Star Trek might be about contacting new life forms and setting up treaties with diplomacy, it would make for very iffy gameplay in a very competitive market. It's not very cool, but that's how it is.

What I'd love to see from an MMO is that other players are treated as more than party members or enemies in combat (PvP). It'd be nice if your decisions affect theirs, for example. You are busy with quest and you have a chose to make. So you make a bastard choice and that causes a quest to spawn across the map that sees a player try to right your choice.

Vampire from World of Darkness is being made into a MMO and I'd LOVE to see a spawning area where instead of CHOOSING a race (Vampire, Mage or Werewolf) yourself, other players can "turn" you either by surrendering to them or fighting them off to stay human as long as possible. THAT kind of interaction between players is missing even from World of Warcraft.

Make it so.

 

[carpathic]

A thoughtful examination of the idea at hand.

I might just think it is thoughtful because it mirrors the analysis I have done, but still...

I suspect I'd be Gryffindor...

 

[VanBasten]

Are games like Star Trek Online missing the point?

Agree completely that STO misses the point of Star Trek by many orders of magnitude, and while I wish things were different, they probably won't be for quite a while.
Killing stuff for loot is a proven concept, it's also what people expect when you say MMO. Blowing stuff up in space is also a concept that works (Space Invaders anyone?). It's just way easier to do the same old thing again than to try something new.
And when I say easier I mean financially viable. MMOs cost too much, and to risk developing one with radically different goals and gameplay means risking to fail. Most publishers/developers aren't willing to take that risk, instead choosing to focus on a safe quick buck.
Until one MMO dares to break the mold and, more importantly, succeeds, I'm afraid we'll be stuck in the same old patterns.

There's a big difference in the Star Trek setting we're familiar with and the setting Cryptic went with in Star Trek Online: In STO the Star Trek Universe is in a "Hot War".

During DS9 the Federation fought two big wars: one against the Klingons, and one against the Dominion, and even then most episodes that dealt with the wars didn't focus on blowing stuff up, but on the people involved and how it affected them. ST didn't focus on killing the enemy, but making peace with them somehow. Even the Borg. Hell, Picard could have destroyed them with Hugh, but he chose to go for a long shot of actually trying to find peace with them. There's just such a dissonance between what ST and STO represent. Apologies for ST geek references.

swaki would love to see the forgotten star trek episode where Picard goes on a killing spree for a hair transplant

Fixed that for ya

 

[DTWolfwood]

STO alternate time line from the ST:Nemesis movie. The federation is currently at war in all fronts, Klingons, Ramulans, Remans, Gorn, etc. In this time line the Star Trek universe isn't exactly about exploration when you have these many factions at war with you.

The shows are about exploration but the show never happened when the federation was at war. They spoke of the wars of the pass but we never got to see it. This game fills in that blank. Lets you experience the nitty gritty of what war is like in the ST universe.

Plus you are mistaken if fighting wasn't in Star Trek, seeing that Kirk was more akin to the "Shoot first, Ask Questions later" kind of captain. also he got to sleep with strange alien women (still waiting on that in STO) so please play the game first before you critique the game. Otherwise its just wrong.

edit: for the sake of all that is holy STO is probably one of 3 games that isnt a completely copy of the traditional MMO model set forth by UO, EQ, on which WoW is a clone of. SO cut it some slack for trying to be a clone of Pirates of the Burning Sea in space dammit! XD

 

[VanBasten]

The shows are about exploration but the show never happened when the federation was at war.

Khm, khm DS9? I know it was considered the bastard child of ST(ironically because it had wars) but it still existed, and was a damn fine show.

so please play the game first before you critique the game. Otherwise it just wrong.

I have played the game(through the beta, head start and still am playing, free month and all, but won't after it's over), and I approve John Funks message

 

[DTWolfwood]

The shows are about exploration but the show never happened when the federation was at war.

Khm, khm DS9? I know it was considered the bastard child of ST(ironically because it had wars) but it still existed, and was a damn fine show.

so please play the game first before you critique the game. Otherwise it just wrong.

I have played the game(through the beta, head start and still am playing, free month and all, but won't after it's over), and I approve John Funks message

ah yes DS9 the show that happened almost exclusively inside a station showed a lot of exploration alright. And the lovely fighting that incurred in the last seasons of the series was very Star Trek too.

Someone make a space game with the depth of EVE and the tactical ship combat of STO and ill be all over it.

I'm pretty sure when you talk to a trek fan what they want most in Star Trek, Is to fly a starship and probably to sleep with alien women XD so its close but not quite there yet.

 

[tur2n]

I couldn't agree more. I've always considered World of Warcraft to be an Diablo MMO in a Warcraft setting. It's about killing stuff, gaining levels and items. That's it.
There is no dialogue, most of the story is presented in a box of text that few bother to read. It worked well for Blizzard, indeed so well that every new MMO tries exactly the same. Maybe with a strong IP, maybe with fancy graphics.

No wonder no one can touch World of Warcraft. They're all trying to beat that game where it's strongest.

 

[JEBWrench]

Vampire from World of Darkness is being made into a MMO and I'd LOVE to see a spawning area where instead of CHOOSING a race (Vampire, Mage or Werewolf) yourself, other players can "turn" you either by surrendering to them or fighting them off to stay human as long as possible. THAT kind of interaction between players is missing even from World of Warcraft.

Make it so.

That could work, and I'd find it a lot of fun, but what about the people who don't want to be a Vampire? Tough titty, re-roll, hope someone makes you a werewolf. Or hope that your character had the random chance to be a Mage?

 

[VanBasten]

ah yes DS9 the show that happened almost exclusively inside a station showed a lot of exploration alright. And the lovely fighting that incurred in the last seasons of the series was very Star Trek too.

Uhm, I got lost in the contradictions in your statements. Firstly, your description of DS9 is dead wrong. Secondly, the description of DS9 you are suggesting is actually more similar to what STO is. And then thirdly you're implying that DS9 sucked and STO is great? Dude... what?

DS9 handled wars the star trek way, thoughtfully and personally. It wasn't about the war, it was about the people. STO handles it the space invaders way: "You're here, there's thousands of other ships there. Go destroy them, upgrade your phasers."

And I wouldn't complain if it was marketed as a space/ground future combat game(although i find it a bit disappointing even as that). But it's marketed as Star Trek Online, which sort of implies a Star Trek universe which you get a chance to inhabit. But this isn't a Star Trek universe I know, I cannot just go about and explore strange new worlds, I always have to kill someone, so immersion factor is nonexistent for me, as is any reason to continue playing.

 

[Raithnor]

There's a big difference in the Star Trek setting we're familiar with and the setting Cryptic went with in Star Trek Online: In STO the Star Trek Universe is in a "Hot War".

During DS9 the Federation fought two big wars: one against the Klingons, and one against the Dominion, and even then most episodes that dealt with the wars didn't focus on blowing stuff up, but on the people involved and how it affected them. ST didn't focus on killing the enemy, but making peace with them somehow. Even the Borg. Hell, Picard could have destroyed them with Hugh, but he chose to go for a long shot of actually trying to find peace with them. There's just such a dissonance between what ST and STO represent. Apologies for ST geek references.

There's a strong suspicion that the Hugh "paradox virus" gambit would have failed miserably, at least as sabotaging the whole collective was concerned. In First Contact you had the Borg travel through time, which meant they were able to process concepts like "paradoxes" without "crashing" the collective. You also had the ability of the collective's will manifest as a single avatar in the Borg Queen.

Maybe at that "precise" time they were contemplating the plan it *might* have worked, but I have a feeling the Borg patched that security flaw along with the "sleep" issue that allow the Enterprise to "Hack" the collective in "Best of both worlds".

As for the DS9 Wars, for every episode that was akin to something you'd find in "M*A*S*H" there was an episode that would make for a good gaming scenario. "Kill the Dominion Battlecruiser", "Steal the Jem'Hadar ship", "Survive the ground attack".

The more "introspective" episodes of Star Trek don't work very well in an MMO format. Unless you went the "Mass Effect/Dragon Age"-route where your crew had "sub-quests". Granted, if they added more "Morality"-based decision quests to the game that would go a long way to making it feel like Trek. However the game is very new and it needs a lot of fixing up to make it a competent MMO in what it's trying to do.

An MMO has two choices: The players can interact with the computer, which is limited. Or players can interact with each other which has it's own set of limitations, chiefly being that the other person or people you're interacting aren't idiots. I mean it's cool if you can get your own steady group of players to interact with but the more people involved the more likely that real life issues will affect one of then.

Honestly, I expected the game would basically be "Star Fleet Battles Online" or "EVE-lite" and I haven't been disappointed in that regard.

(Edited for clarity.)