If the world didn't had any currentcy, they would make formed bronze or gold and give them value, just like money.
A World Without Currency
- Thread starter Griffstar
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I like the idea in that it would force people to be more self-sufficient (hard to pay for a house with chickens, better build it yourself), but we wouldn't have most of the technology that makes our lives so easy nowadays... not sure if that's good or bad.
You can't do away with currency, because currency is EVERYTHING. That might seem a little shallow, but think of it like this. What is money these days? It's just paper. Paper that is traded on the global market to determine its value. However, it is an exchange that everyone in the world uses to buy everything they need. It doesn't matter if it is seashells, dog feces, or dollar bills, currency is just what we agree has value and agree to exchange to modify a bartering system.
Basically, there can not be an advanced culture without currency. If it isn't something physical, it would be something else. Time perhaps, working hours, good will, reputation. It's not a bad thing that the entire Earth's value can be given a dollar amount. It can also be given an amount of worth in clams and moon rocks.
Basically, there can not be an advanced culture without currency. If it isn't something physical, it would be something else. Time perhaps, working hours, good will, reputation. It's not a bad thing that the entire Earth's value can be given a dollar amount. It can also be given an amount of worth in clams and moon rocks.
without an extreme change in human nature there really isnt any way to have a world without currency besides a barter culture that isnt totally unstable. Now there are ways to stabilize a socialist non monetary culture but that would entail creating a system that acts like cash in this case we will call it credit.
Now for starters in this socialist society everyone would be entitled to the basics such as bland but healthy food, small spartan housing, good education, basic transportation, basic entertainment, and basic health care. Now if a person works they will receive credit and experience points.
Credit will behave much like currency so that they may buy items such as better food, better entertainment, or a great deal of other stuff. Experience points will let a person level up and as they level they will be able to get talent points to place in a talent tree that will let them upgrade certain things such as they can put a point in housing to let them have a bigger more comfortable house or have better health care.
You may be wondering at this point what is the incentive to become a doctor or some other stressful job and that is simple you will earn credit and exp faster as a doctor then a waiter.
Now for starters in this socialist society everyone would be entitled to the basics such as bland but healthy food, small spartan housing, good education, basic transportation, basic entertainment, and basic health care. Now if a person works they will receive credit and experience points.
Credit will behave much like currency so that they may buy items such as better food, better entertainment, or a great deal of other stuff. Experience points will let a person level up and as they level they will be able to get talent points to place in a talent tree that will let them upgrade certain things such as they can put a point in housing to let them have a bigger more comfortable house or have better health care.
You may be wondering at this point what is the incentive to become a doctor or some other stressful job and that is simple you will earn credit and exp faster as a doctor then a waiter.
Actually that's not what it's called at all, please don't just throw words around. It bugs me that people systematically equate this term with whatever's convenient at the time.mercifulwrath said:
Not all types of currency are measured in what we call money. Bartering, trading or even honor systems are ways of exchanging goods and services. The good thing about money is that is easily transportable and convertable. The problem is that it's an abstract thing that makes it very easy to exploit and deceive with.
I don't think money as a concept in this world is a problem, although I would welcome a world where it is no longer necessary.
Cheers,
Matsjo
There seems to be some misunderstanding as to the question posed by the OP. He asked how a world without currency could work. He didn't ask for a pile of cop-outs and excuses as to how it couldn't work. Value has become more and more abstracted over the course of human history. It started with the barter system; utility value for utility value. Later, we used rare metals as a medium of exchange. Then, we established paper money printed and distributed by the government. Now, the value of exchange is transfered largely by digital transactions. There is a clear trend towards the abstraction of value and the natural end-point is where a medium of exchange is simply not needed anymore. That is evolution. To say that how people are now (self-serving and lazy) is an indication of how we will always be is to deny the process of evolution. Do you think the Wright brothers or any other inventor gave up after the first failure? Think of all the things that have been said about the most progressive inventions: The airplane will never fly, the steam engine is a waste of time, the computer will never find a market, microprocessing is a fad. All these things that the majority of "experts" claimed would never work ended up revolutionizing the world.
There are people in the world at this very, very moment who are ready and willing to effortlessly move to an economy without money. We're all waiting for the rest of you to catch up with us because it's a step we can only make all together. The only thing that would make such a revolution impossible is the stubborn, backwards insistence that it is impossible. Drop that assumption, and it suddenly becomes possible. Once it becomes possible, get started.
There are people in the world at this very, very moment who are ready and willing to effortlessly move to an economy without money. We're all waiting for the rest of you to catch up with us because it's a step we can only make all together. The only thing that would make such a revolution impossible is the stubborn, backwards insistence that it is impossible. Drop that assumption, and it suddenly becomes possible. Once it becomes possible, get started.
The central flaw remains the same as in communism though, and that's what I was pointing out. You suggest an "honor system," which would only work if all parties involved are in mutual agreement to what constitutes as work and services rendered. In an ideal communist society, people would want to think that their work is not more than the work of others, and that they are getting the same as every other person for the simple fact that they are doing the same workload as every other person.TheMatsjo said:
Heres my opinion on the matter, (now that I have time)
A world without currency, I believe wouldn't last long if we kept our most precious habits. We would all have to contribute to labor as jobs would be virtually pointless now that their is no reward for the hard work. Many company's would collapse, and only the powerful, needed company's would stay in power. Goverments' would have to re-write the whole system, schools would need to change their whole curiculum, food shortages for a while. But I seriously think we could make it if everyone chipped in. People being required to work for food and common household thing, the world would be a much nicer place. Being "taxed" to give an equal amount of food to neighbore's.
Their are obvious cons, riots, revoloution's, and pretty much our entire society would collapse for a while. We would have to write the book again.
A world without currency, I believe wouldn't last long if we kept our most precious habits. We would all have to contribute to labor as jobs would be virtually pointless now that their is no reward for the hard work. Many company's would collapse, and only the powerful, needed company's would stay in power. Goverments' would have to re-write the whole system, schools would need to change their whole curiculum, food shortages for a while. But I seriously think we could make it if everyone chipped in. People being required to work for food and common household thing, the world would be a much nicer place. Being "taxed" to give an equal amount of food to neighbore's.
Their are obvious cons, riots, revoloution's, and pretty much our entire society would collapse for a while. We would have to write the book again.
Services would most likely take its place, whereby expertise in doing something useful with material resources would become a massive commodity. And education would be paid for with said resources. And knowledge would literally become power, and progress would stagnate due to technologies being even more jealously guarded than they are now. Then again, I'm drunk and this probably makes no sense. I'll let the community decide.
It's kind of addressed in Iain M Banks 'Culture' novels, BIG riders though:
Basically AI's run and administer everything that is necessary (food, energy, construction, medicine, education...EVERYTHING) and the society exists 'beyond resources' (energy is 'bought in' from hyperspace, there are enough planets in the Culture that you could/can have everything you want.) All humans have to do is exist and enjoy themselves.
TLDR: Effectively infinite resources would be needed for a world without currency.
Basically AI's run and administer everything that is necessary (food, energy, construction, medicine, education...EVERYTHING) and the society exists 'beyond resources' (energy is 'bought in' from hyperspace, there are enough planets in the Culture that you could/can have everything you want.) All humans have to do is exist and enjoy themselves.
TLDR: Effectively infinite resources would be needed for a world without currency.
I can imagine buying a car in a properly working society that doesn't operate on money. You go to the car depot, find a model that suits your needs, get the keys, and drive it home. Of course, in such an ideal society, public transportation would be the preferred method of transportation. People wouldn't be paid in chickens or nonsense like that. You need food? You go to the grocery depot and pick up your food. There's work to be done? You volunteer to do it. What would the system all run on? Not money nor barter but self-discipline
I do not think that a large scale economy (beyond district scale) can efficiently work without "something" that works like a currency. The main feature of "currency" here is to efficiently "store" wealth.
I do NOT think that this commodity needs to be fiat money (actually, i consider fiat currency something that is probable to be abused) - but for larger economies to work efficiently, there needs to be a commodity that is efficient at representing potential wealth.
By the way: I do not think that every trade needs to require a market and a kind of "money". Existencial basics for example to not necessarily need to go through the whole market thingie.... in fact, that the current economy model requires existencial basics to work via the free market model, and be paid for with money, is the ONLY reason why unemployment is a problem.
I do NOT think that this commodity needs to be fiat money (actually, i consider fiat currency something that is probable to be abused) - but for larger economies to work efficiently, there needs to be a commodity that is efficient at representing potential wealth.
By the way: I do not think that every trade needs to require a market and a kind of "money". Existencial basics for example to not necessarily need to go through the whole market thingie.... in fact, that the current economy model requires existencial basics to work via the free market model, and be paid for with money, is the ONLY reason why unemployment is a problem.
As long as they're not self-replecating and/or self-aware we should be ok... I think.AccursedTheory said:
The problem is that nanobots will, most likely, not be mechanical constructs: they'll be modified bacteria, or some sort of multi-cellular organism (But still small). Because the life of a single celled creature, for the most part, is short, they will most likely be allowed to self replicate at a reasonable rate. Until something goes wrong.Nick Stackware said:
Go read Prey, by Micheal Crichton.
It's freaking horrifying.
Something like cancer would come along and they would replicate out of control... Dammit I wanted nanobots!AccursedTheory said:
Money was a system added to give goods and services specific values as a convenience to everyone.
It would be taking a step back. Many centuries back.
It would be taking a step back. Many centuries back.