About Critics (Part II)

Wild_Marker

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starwarsgeek said:
LordLundar said:
For the track record the below is the speech Moviebob is referencing regarding Ego's speech in Ratatouille:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JPOoFkrh94

It's a humbling realization that applies to any field that involves a critic more critics do need to have such a realization.
wow...excellent scene. I really need to watch that movie
You definetly must. After that, Wall-E and Up, you start seriously wondering why Pixar would lower themselves to make Cars 2 (although to be fair to them, I didn't give two pennys for Toy Story 3 and it turned out to be so awesome I almost cry)
 

Andronicus

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Mar 25, 2009
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Moviebob said:
Maybe it's a musical cue, maybe it's a "one great scene" deal, whatever - every movie, even a terrible one, is loved by somebody
By that logic, somebody out there loved the Human Centipede. I find this rather disturbing a thought.

OT: Good article. I like these kinds of articles that elaborate on not just Moviebob's movie opinions, but world opinions in general.

Also, I just wanted to point out that I never understood the concept of "left wing/right wing" politics until reading this, so thankyou for that.
 

JUSTINtimeforalaugh

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"Thusly, while I won't cop to any kind of bias against one "side" or the other, I'll freely admit to being quite proudly biased against stupidity, injustice and lies - if and when I come up against a "creationist" film (stupidity) I'm probably going to be inclined to kick the crap out of it. When I've encountered openly homophobic/anti-gay films (re: injustice), I've typically taken them to task for it. Those pseudo-science "Global Warming doesn't exist" documentaries? They are lies, and I treat them as lies deserve."

I dunno... calling someone's beliefs that they based their life around "stupidity" seems pretty biased to me.

And my opinion of him keeps getting lowered...
 

Prof. Monkeypox

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Between the constant bolding and emoticons, this felt a lot more unprofessional than usual. That bugged me a little.

Anyway, I really appreciated the points- I think your arguments are well reasoned as always.
 

Falseprophet

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risenbone said:
I think from the political point of view alot of the problem stems from people (mostly American) not actually knowing the differences betwen right wing (fascism) left wing (communisim) and conservitive (some where in the middle). The problem being that the American political system is excessivly scewed to the right to the point that what Americans call leftist policies/politics would in most other countries be called conservitive middle of the road politics.

Yes sonic the rest of the world argue the left right question they just do it from a more balanced point of view. That and most of the rest of the democratic world get there election campaigns over and done with in the period of a month or less while America stretches the same process over a couple of years or more.
You're a bit off. Conservatism is right-of-centre to almost far right. Liberalism is centrist to just left-of-centre. Social democracy, socialism, and communism are left of that.

But this is the problem with using a simplistic dichotomy based on 200-year-old French politics. famous leaders and thinkers [http://politicalcompass.org/] line up.
 

Sniper Team 4

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Ne1butme said:
i liked exactly one moment in the whole Transformers series. The scene where the Autobots land on earth for the first time. There is a majesty to that scene. The acting from the leads actually displays the appropriate awe. And the music makes the whole thing sublime.


Nearly everything else was closer to shit.
The only scene I liked in that movie was when Optimus fought that one Decepticon on the freeway. The reason I liked it was because it was true to the source material: If you're not Megatron, Optimus is going to crush you and it won't even be a contest. And it wasn't. The fight was over before it began.

On Topic: Fun reading. I didn't realize the rest of the world no longer argued about creation verses evolution. I'm glad he made a reference to the critic in Ratatouille. That is the part of the movie that's always stuck with me because it reminds me that, in the end of the day, a critic's opinion shouldn't affect my own. I may end up having the same opinion--or a completely opposite one--as the critic, but it doesn't matter.
 

RJ Dalton

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SonicWaffle said:
Wild_Marker said:
Ha ha, you Americans and your crazy political fights...
Right, because the rest of the world never argue the left/right question :p
Actually, no. Not the way it's done in America, anyway. Our definition of what makes left and right . . . left and right is largely completely arbitrary and meaningless and when you step outside of American culture and examine political philosophies of different countries, you really see that. That's the problem with the right/left split in political philosophy; things that have absolutely no relationship to each other get lumped together as if supporting one meant you had to support the other. Ask yourself this: why should a person's stance on gay rights affect their stance on stem-cell research? Why should their belief on religion affect their positions on the appropriate size of government?
Sorry, straying off topic.
The point is, your assumption here is that he left/right split that we argue in America exists in other countries. It doesn't. The way we divide left and right is different in many ways from which other countries divide it, supposing that the other country only divides its political philosophies into two different stances. Point of fact, we only have the left-right split because we have only two political parties (that matter, I mean). In countries that have more parties, you have more political divisions.
So no, the "left/right question" does not really get argued outside of the United States.
 

Mister Linton

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So, everyone pointing out how you condescend to your audience more than you critique movies made your tummy hurt huh? The only way to make that go away Bob is to cop to it, apologize, and stop doing it. Just saying that you understand why every movie is loved by someone, doesn't excuse you from insulting people for the movies they like. It just makes you a hypocrite. You have to admit you were wrong before you can be forgiven.
 

Avistew

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SoopaSte123 said:
Did I ever tell you that I love you have 2 videos and one written article a week, Bob? Because if I didn't, I really should have.
I know, right? It makes waiting a tiny bit easier. And then you have the Overthinker stuff and some podcasts too, although honestly my favourite material remains the Escapist one. I think it's because the Overthinker is more for fun from what I can tell and less... "professional" I guess?

captainjackofms said:
I dunno... calling someone's beliefs that they based their life around "stupidity" seems pretty biased to me.
Oh, it is biased, but it's neither Left-wing nor Right-wing. I don't think he denies he has subjective opinions and is biased on a bunch of stuff. He's just saying it's outside of the left-right political spectrum.

About the critic thing:
I remember when I was in art school (I spent a year there). It was pretty horrid, we had various classes that we had to make something for once a year, and they were merciless in criticizing them. We were grated out of 20 and most people would get 1 after 1 after 1 (they wouldn't give less to someone who had actually done something). After working the 15-20 hours required for each project, getting the same grade as someone who would have spent five minutes sucked. It was heartbreaking.

One teacher told me once about that, close to the end of the year. He talked about how when you work on a project, you put yourself into it, you love it. And when it's attacked, you feel you're attacked. And you need to learn to dissociate yourself from it, and be the one attacking it. Because as much as you like it, it might still be a piece of shit. And he said, when he looked back at the stuff he made as a student, which he had kept, it was shit. He could see it. He knew it. But man, he still loved it and it was heartbreaking every time.

Something you love isn't the same as something you made, but the emotional investment might be similar. When that thing is attacked, you feel attacked because you liked it. It's hard learning to detach yourself from it. Hell, I spent a year being told my stuff sucked and doing it anyways, and I still don't have a tough skin. Honestly can't take criticism well at all. But I know it's a fault on my part, not the people doing the criticism.

About politics:
It's funny, here in France "liberal" means "right-wing". Not because your left is our right (your left is more our center), but because we don't refer to the same thing being liberal.
We refer to classical liberalism rather than social liberalism, so your "liberal" is left-wing, our "liberal" is right-wing.
Before I realise that, it made discussing politics with Americans pretty weird.
We also don't have the same dichotomy of every issue becoming a left-wing or a right-wing issue. We don't have the evolution debate at all (religious people think that's how God wanted things to happen, by evolving, non-religious people think that's just the way it is, and either way nobody sees it as having anything to do with whether God exists or not. Kind of like gravity, it exists, religious people think God made it so, non-religious people don't. End of story).
We also have lots of parties, some left-wing, some right-wing, some extreme-left or extreme-right, some center, some center-left, some center-right... So yeah, we're less used to dividing things in an either/or kind of thing, because every party has its own views on every issue and it's not purely tied to where they fit in the left-right spectrum.

Anyway, interesting stuff.
 

EvilRoy

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Sex does not require romance, meaningful connection or even attraction - merely the joining of interlocking parts and the exchange of fluids.
Sorry I just thought I would mention with your 'not everything needs meaning' argument. While I cannot deny that some of this probably does come from insecurity, I would contend that an equal amount comes from serviceability. No, sex does not need a meaningful connection. And sometimes that's good.
Sex without a meaningful connection can be a completely serviceable and useful release for any human, and it does so without the need for any of the mental strain normally associated with convincing a woman your worth being around after hours. Just like Transformers. Well sort of. There's less cleanup, and it costs slightly more (bam).
But you did already say you understand this. Which is good, I just wish you would spend less time per review reminding us how crap we are for enjoying a one-nighter. A casual movie-bang if you will.

But why-oh-why do you feel the need to remind us of your disapproval every other review? Okay, you're having a hard time meeting your time quota. I get it, I've been there-I may not write reviews, but my work involves its own kind of minimums that can be ungodly to meet. But all the same dude, you need to mix it up a little if you're just trying to stretch your play time. Record your bum with plastic eyeballs on it and do a dance. Shoehorn some 'kitties shot by lasers' in there. Record your review, and then take part of it mirror it or play it backwards and tack it back on to the end of the review. Something, anything new!
 

WanderingFool

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Hmm, I somewhat agree and disagree with Bob, as is my usual schtick. Though He does raise some good points, that even I had to think about.
 

intheweeds

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SonicWaffle said:
Wild_Marker said:
Ha ha, you Americans and your crazy political fights...
Right, because the rest of the world never argue the left/right question :p
We have three major parties in Canada. More if you count the Green Party and Bloc Quebecois. No not everyone in the rest of the world argue about left/right.
 

funguy2121

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MovieBob said:
MovieBob: About Critics (Part II)

Here's why MovieBob has been ignoring some of your other complaints.

Read Full Article
I think conservatism and liberalism refer to a lot more than simply the reach/size of government power. American Conservatism is defined quite a bit by a set-in-stone traditional values system, usually based on church doctrines with assumed Biblical support from several decades ago, and a corresponding yearning to get back to "the way things were." Whether or not things really were the way that many conservatives imagine is open for debate. Liberalism is very much defined by establishing and protecting civil rights and ensuring that everyone has a voice, and to a lesser extent to ensuring that eveyone has a fair shake. When one gets into the specifics of this, of course, the role and extent of federal power comes into play.
 

GrungyMunchy

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Good points, but you could pass on calling stupid to religious people. That really passes as stupid in itself.

Actually, I don't really get your double standard. Racist remarks pass as injustice, but bashing religious people doesn't? Do you need to be reminded that the declaration of human rights, you know, the thing you've defended time and time again, defends the equality of both races and beliefs?

It baffles me how people can be so unconsciously hypocritic about their own remarks.
 

CM156_v1legacy

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Mar 23, 2011
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While I may not agree with all of what you say about movies, Moviebob, I will say that you present your arguments well.

Good job!


EDIT: Oh, and my friend and I love your "Big Picture" segments. Keep it up!
 

vxicepickxv

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Sep 28, 2008
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Wild_Marker said:
Ha ha, you Americans and your crazy political fights...

Whatever, all this article made me think is how much I love Ratatouile (the movie, not the food). And yes, you can point out a movie is bad even if I liked it. That's why I don't watch reviews until after watching the movie, or I'll have bias in the theater and won't be able to enjoy it. I also do that with games, try to make my own opinion before reading any reviews.

Case in point, Pirates 4. After seeing it I gave it a "Well, it's better than Ghost Rider". Then watched Bob's review and realized I really wouldn't have enjoyed it as much, had I done it before.
Oddly enough, I try to do the opposite, and seek out reviews. I don't want to waste good time and money on a bad movie or game.
 

Sylocat

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GrungyMunchy said:
Good points, but you could pass on calling stupid to religious people. That really passes as stupid in itself.

Actually, I don't really get your double standard. Racist remarks pass as injustice, but bashing religious people doesn't? Do you need to be reminded that the declaration of human rights, you know, the thing you've defended time and time again, defends the equality of both races and beliefs?
Yes, it does. And it means you're free to believe pretty much anything. You're free to believe that gravity is made-up. The fact that you're allowed to believe it doesn't make it non-ridiculous.
 

breese

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captainjackofms said:
"Thusly, while I won't cop to any kind of bias against one "side" or the other, I'll freely admit to being quite proudly biased against stupidity, injustice and lies - if and when I come up against a "creationist" film (stupidity) I'm probably going to be inclined to kick the crap out of it. When I've encountered openly homophobic/anti-gay films (re: injustice), I've typically taken them to task for it. Those pseudo-science "Global Warming doesn't exist" documentaries? They are lies, and I treat them as lies deserve."

I dunno... calling someone's beliefs that they based their life around "stupidity" seems pretty biased to me.
Yeah I have to agree here... patently calling one argument "wrong" and another "right" seems a bit biased.

Just a few things to point out -- evolution has absolutely nothing to say about how life actually started and there are things that it doesn't explain such as irreducible complexity (how certain biological mechanisms are so complex that they couldn't actually evolve [basically if they weren't exactly the way they are now they wouldn't work]). So saying that that's stupid is actually rather foolish.

Also, haven't climatologists basically declared that the world is in a cooling trend now, or "Global Cooling" (oops, they don't want to use that word because it implies that they might have *ahem* lied about some stuff, instead they're calling it "Climate Change")? I just think it's interesting that Mr. Bob claims Global Warming is completely true and not stupidity or a lie, while it turns out that it doesn't really work the way many psuedo-scientists such as Al Gore claimed.

But I digress: Bob should stick to what he's INCREDIBLY good at -- reviewing movies, not passing wholesale judgment on science plz.
 

StriderShinryu

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Very good column, and I find myself agreeing with a lot of it even though I don't always agree with your work. What I don't quite understand, particularly given the explanations that you've now given, is why there's a need to outright insult someone who enjoys something you don't (even if, yes, you can back your side of the discussion up with facts).

Let's take the dog example from the column. To you, your mutts are great dogs. To the dog show critics, they are mongrels that have no place anywhere near a dog show. No problems so far as the critics at the show have their own objective criteria on who dogs are to be judged and they don't have the visceral heartfelt feeling and personal experience you have with your specific dogs. Is it then right if the critics start calling you a moron/douchebag/idiot/etc. simply because you like your dog (regardless, particularly, of what you think about theirs)? Does it not diminish not only your feelings towards the dog show critics but also work to erode any sense of professionalism they may have had (never mind cause you to take even less note of their objective commentary next time)?