About Critics (Part II)
- Thread starter MovieBob
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And in turn I can call you an idiot because you don't think like me (as you do too)? That sounds really productive and mature. I really hope you don't go on in your life calling stupid to everyone who doesn't agree with you, it won't take you very far.Sylocat said:
Really? Funny, that. I live in England, and I've heard it plenty of times. People equate 'traditional values' with conservatism - I've even read a book by a conservative columnist who puts much of the blame for what he calls the "disgusting state of the country" on Richard Dawkins and his ilk, because if more people went to church the world would be a better place. People with these views often, but not always, seem to be drawn towards the Conservative party, quite possibly because they heard the word 'conservative' and it sends up a red flag rather than because they agree with the politics.RJ Dalton said:
The difference here is that the distinction doesn't seep through to mainstream politics quite so much. We don't bisect our populace and then spend our time hating everyone on the other side for everything we perceive as "leftist" or "far-right". My point was that, while America makes the left/right divide the heart and soul of its political landscape, the same divide still occurs elsewhere albeit with less people paying attention.
See aboveintheweeds said:
That's... kind of the whole point. You're free to believe things which are demonstrably (and demonstratEDly) untrue. Believing something like that is stupid, regardless of who else believes in it. It's not a matter of agreeing with me or not, because guess what: Reality doesn't care what you think. That's why it's called "reality."GrungyMunchy said:
I'm not talking about believing someone is stupid, you idiot. I'm talking about voicing that belief. It's the difference between being a funcioning person in society and just being a jackass.Sylocat said:
Oh Bob, I'd hoped you were working on my pet peeve. It's not as bad as it used to be. But not only wasn't it addressed, you're still doing it a little.
If you don't like a movie and can specify why, that's great. It's why you write reviews. But there's no need to characterize the people you assume disagree with you! Just say "the ending is forced and cliche", not that it was made for right wing / left wing / frat boy / emo / hipsters. (Oh wait, you decried that last term after someone used it on you.)
Reasonable people can disagree on movies. It's why they're fun to discuss. Reasonable people don't go "and it would have been better if not for all you morons!"
p.s. The great political divide is "freedom from government" vs "freedom from life via government". It has been that way for centuries. The labels for these however get mixed around and bundled with side issues according to the marketing needs of the day.
If you don't like a movie and can specify why, that's great. It's why you write reviews. But there's no need to characterize the people you assume disagree with you! Just say "the ending is forced and cliche", not that it was made for right wing / left wing / frat boy / emo / hipsters. (Oh wait, you decried that last term after someone used it on you.)
Reasonable people can disagree on movies. It's why they're fun to discuss. Reasonable people don't go "and it would have been better if not for all you morons!"
p.s. The great political divide is "freedom from government" vs "freedom from life via government". It has been that way for centuries. The labels for these however get mixed around and bundled with side issues according to the marketing needs of the day.
Way to make your point hereGrungyMunchy said:
.I get your point, man, but the problem is with people thinking they need to follow everything about MovieBob's review, not with his making reviews. He has his own tastes. He is honest about that. However when he reviews a movie he does explain what he liked or disliked, and that means when I watch a review of his, I get an idea if I'll like it or not, regardless of whether Bob did.Turtleboy1017 said:
I find his reviews most useful for a few things though: 1) getting to hear about movies I hadn't heard of or wouldn't have given a chance to, and 2) hearing what he has to say about movies I have already seen.
In the first case, even if I decide not to go see it, I wasn't going to in the first place. And I might decide to go see it. In the second case, it give me insights on why this or that might have been put in a movie that I didn't like (and make me understand the movie better, regardless of disliking it) or understand what was lacking from a movie I liked. It's from his point of view, yes, but his point of view interests me, that's why I watch his reviews.
If your friends don't buy mutts because someone tells them "mutts won't get prizes" and they care about the prizes, it's a good reason not to get a mutt. As far as people who don't because some guy told them mutts suck, well if you really love mutts, you'll get one anyways, right?
I agree he could lay it off on the insults, but it doesn't prevent me from enjoying his videos/articles. Plus I don't think making a post on the forums is going to change that.
I wrote that for two reasons: first because by the way he's exposing his argument, he must be okay with that. And second, because he really is being an idiot, independently of his faith or race, which is the point of this discussion.Avistew said:Way to make your point hereGrungyMunchy said:
So I'm wrong because I liked the first Transformers, another thing to add to my list.
Calling religious people stupid is also unnessecary.
Calling religious people stupid is also unnessecary.
You will notice I said "not everyone in the rest of the world". Key phrase being "not everyone". I know exactly what i said. Thanks though.SonicWaffle said:Really? Funny, that. I live in England, and I've heard it plenty of times. People equate 'traditional values' with conservatism - I've even read a book by a conservative columnist who puts much of the blame for what he calls the "disgusting state of the country" on Richard Dawkins and his ilk, because if more people went to church the world would be a better place. People with these views often, but not always, seem to be drawn towards the Conservative party, quite possibly because they heard the word 'conservative' and it sends up a red flag rather than because they agree with the politics.RJ Dalton said:
The difference here is that the distinction doesn't seep through to mainstream politics quite so much. We don't bisect our populace and then spend our time hating everyone on the other side for everything we perceive as "leftist" or "far-right". My point was that, while America makes the left/right divide the heart and soul of its political landscape, the same divide still occurs elsewhere albeit with less people paying attention.
See aboveintheweeds said:
I really couldn't tell you why i like transformers.
I understand why it sucks, but everytime i put it on i still enjoy every minute.
I understand why it sucks, but everytime i put it on i still enjoy every minute.
Movies aside, I couldn't agree more on your left/right analysis.
Why is it that everything must fall into one of the predesignated groups. Gun Rights, Religion, Abortion, the Middle East wars, Gay Marriage, etc... if you favor small government and lowered taxes leaning towards a laissez-faire approach, then you you're obviously a righty. As such, you must be a gun nut who feels abortion is a crime against humanity, and you love the wars, you hate gay people and love Sarah Palin. Or, you're an oil tycoon.
And if you favor a larger government with more oversight and higher taxes to pay for subsidized programs like universal health care, then you are obviously a lefty. As such, you are a gun hating communist hippy who loves abortion, is probably gay, and lives on welfare.
Repeat as nasuem for whatever other stereotypes you like
sigh
To quote, well, you: "This. Madness. Has. Got. To. Stop." (also facepalm x7)
Going back to movies: Not every movie needs to be good. In fact, I would argue that bad movies make the good ones even better. Just like bland food, bad sex and ugly clothing can make you notice the good variants thereof. If every movie you saw approached "masterpiece" level, it would cease to hold meaning.
That being said, I think our line up of bad movies needs to get better. I'm all for an occasional silly romp, talking dog movie or explosion extravaganza. It's nice sometimes, when you can miss 5 minutes of a movie, and not be completely baffled as to what's going on. But that shouldn't give studios a license to pump out absolute garbage. I shouldn't be forced to say "wtf am I even looking at? OH GOD MY EYES. What are you doing to my eyes," as was the case with Human Centipede, and both Transformer movies.
Why is it that everything must fall into one of the predesignated groups. Gun Rights, Religion, Abortion, the Middle East wars, Gay Marriage, etc... if you favor small government and lowered taxes leaning towards a laissez-faire approach, then you you're obviously a righty. As such, you must be a gun nut who feels abortion is a crime against humanity, and you love the wars, you hate gay people and love Sarah Palin. Or, you're an oil tycoon.
And if you favor a larger government with more oversight and higher taxes to pay for subsidized programs like universal health care, then you are obviously a lefty. As such, you are a gun hating communist hippy who loves abortion, is probably gay, and lives on welfare.
Repeat as nasuem for whatever other stereotypes you like
sigh
To quote, well, you: "This. Madness. Has. Got. To. Stop." (also facepalm x7)
Going back to movies: Not every movie needs to be good. In fact, I would argue that bad movies make the good ones even better. Just like bland food, bad sex and ugly clothing can make you notice the good variants thereof. If every movie you saw approached "masterpiece" level, it would cease to hold meaning.
That being said, I think our line up of bad movies needs to get better. I'm all for an occasional silly romp, talking dog movie or explosion extravaganza. It's nice sometimes, when you can miss 5 minutes of a movie, and not be completely baffled as to what's going on. But that shouldn't give studios a license to pump out absolute garbage. I shouldn't be forced to say "wtf am I even looking at? OH GOD MY EYES. What are you doing to my eyes," as was the case with Human Centipede, and both Transformer movies.
that's interesting about your response to the 'switching off your brain' thing.
as far as critics go, you've always seemed much more a fan of sleazy 'cheap' B movies than the usual. (GI Joe, Piranha 3D, and 2012 come to mind)
honestly, its probably what I like most about your reviews. there are non intellectual movies, and there are just plain stupid, shitty movies. and you've always been good at drawing the line.
as far as critics go, you've always seemed much more a fan of sleazy 'cheap' B movies than the usual. (GI Joe, Piranha 3D, and 2012 come to mind)
honestly, its probably what I like most about your reviews. there are non intellectual movies, and there are just plain stupid, shitty movies. and you've always been good at drawing the line.
Okay, you defeated me on that one, I'll come back once I've thought about the point of splosiony movies a bit more.
I always gauged you as a liberal right on the political spectrum. I don't think I've ever seen much from you to suggest otherwise. It's pretty much the only standpoint on the right side of the spectrum that I actually respect (although I do find it tends to support a lot of self-centred reasoning, and even worse is full of lots of people who claim to be liberal right and are actually just douches who want to be richer at the expense of others). One of the largest flaws in American politics is the right side of the spectrum makes no sense. People who follow a book which explicitly tells them not to build up material wealth, pay taxes happily and to serve every moment of their lives for the good of others, as best as they can, complain about paying money to the government.
People who argue, they should be free to do with their money as they choose, argue that in every other walk of life, from education, to child birth, no-one should be allowed to choose. Oh except for the ability to shoot other people. Because violence and threats was how Jesus survived ... oh wait no he chose to die instead.
So yeah. I consider you to be from the sensible cohesive side.
I think your Twilight review wasn't very good at pointing out the objective problems (it amounted to, this movie suggests that people shouldn't have sex. How sick and wrong is that ?!!) and the Transformers one was more lol Michael Bay sucks, you're a douche for liking this movie. But other than those two one offs you're pretty good at providing reasoning for a lot of them. Super 8 review sounded fantastic at that
I always gauged you as a liberal right on the political spectrum. I don't think I've ever seen much from you to suggest otherwise. It's pretty much the only standpoint on the right side of the spectrum that I actually respect (although I do find it tends to support a lot of self-centred reasoning, and even worse is full of lots of people who claim to be liberal right and are actually just douches who want to be richer at the expense of others). One of the largest flaws in American politics is the right side of the spectrum makes no sense. People who follow a book which explicitly tells them not to build up material wealth, pay taxes happily and to serve every moment of their lives for the good of others, as best as they can, complain about paying money to the government.
People who argue, they should be free to do with their money as they choose, argue that in every other walk of life, from education, to child birth, no-one should be allowed to choose. Oh except for the ability to shoot other people. Because violence and threats was how Jesus survived ... oh wait no he chose to die instead.
So yeah. I consider you to be from the sensible cohesive side.
I think your Twilight review wasn't very good at pointing out the objective problems (it amounted to, this movie suggests that people shouldn't have sex. How sick and wrong is that ?!!) and the Transformers one was more lol Michael Bay sucks, you're a douche for liking this movie. But other than those two one offs you're pretty good at providing reasoning for a lot of them. Super 8 review sounded fantastic at that
But The Inconvenient Truth uses facts (also, a lot of retorics, but that's a different topic). How does that work when you hardly have any concrete, useful facts at your disposal? Just more retorics, or..?Ell Jay said:
I tend to think that Moviebob is like the movie equivalent of a porn star. Sure they make a good show, are a lot of fun to watch. But they have had that hallway violated more times then a Muslim's civil rights in an American airport, and that has led to them being somewhat Jaded and overly critical in there department of expertise. At the end of the day most critics become over indulged in there field and lose sight of the old joys of going to the movies.
Do I think that old grind-house cinema would ever measure up to Movie Bob's Standards? I don't think so. And yet it lead to entire mainstream genres, heck lets go back to Metropolis. One of the first ever sci-fi movies that over a hundred years old. Out of my favorite film ascetic, German expressionist, and some of the scenes by today's standards are horrible, such as the fight scene at the climax. But still it has a very interesting feel and I enjoy watching it.
At the end of the day I probably ignored most of the the things he addressed in my comments. And likewise he should probably ignore all my critisms. I'm just a budding film student/maker and at the end of the day, I still enjoy watching all of Movie Bob's shows.
Do I think that old grind-house cinema would ever measure up to Movie Bob's Standards? I don't think so. And yet it lead to entire mainstream genres, heck lets go back to Metropolis. One of the first ever sci-fi movies that over a hundred years old. Out of my favorite film ascetic, German expressionist, and some of the scenes by today's standards are horrible, such as the fight scene at the climax. But still it has a very interesting feel and I enjoy watching it.
At the end of the day I probably ignored most of the the things he addressed in my comments. And likewise he should probably ignore all my critisms. I'm just a budding film student/maker and at the end of the day, I still enjoy watching all of Movie Bob's shows.
I'm glad someone else realizes this. What follows is a response to one of the facebook comments on the article itself, left by a religious person who felt offended by the articleGrungyMunchy said:
I know what you mean. This sort of stuff pisses me off. When MovieBob gets up on a soapbox about something, I can always tell something is going to be said that's either stupid or offensive, and then ***** about these EXACT FAILINGS in others.
I don't believe a magical space ghost poofed chickens into existence, but evolution/natural selecton is still a flawed enough theory that it shouldn't come as any surprise certain people aren't willing to latch on, despite the overwhelming amount of evidence we have for evolution. Just because you are reasonably certain you are correct isn't an excuse to be a dick. This goes for both sides!
Furthermore, while there is plenty of evidence for the existence of global warming, there is still a significant amount that suggests natural phenomena. You can't accept one side's evidence then clap your hands over your ears and shout "lalalala" to the other's and claim you know what's going on. Willful ignorance is one of the things you were bitching about, wasn't it bob? Hell, when I was little, I remember everything getting blamed on "El Nino", the magical ocean current that would destroy us all.
You know what? fuck it. I had a lot more to say, but this pigheaded too-big-for-his-britches little internet celebrity isn't worth discussing. He's proven time and time again he is incapable of discussing anything that he disagrees with with anything but contempt, and when he thinks he's secure in his fandom, he does things like this that expose him as a pompous, condescending tool.
I need to just stop bothering with his crap on the site.