About Final Fantasy

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Pearwood

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Ulvai said:
There weren't good any JRPGs, EVER.
Don't be ridiculous. If you don't like traditional JRPGs then there's Demon's Souls, TWEWY etc that follow a totally different formula.

I personally really liked FF12 and thought that 13 was a decent addition to the series just rather average like 10 and 5, certainly not bad on the level of 10-2 or 11. I haven't tried 14 but it certainly seems to have the same problems as 11 had, namely Squeenix can't make multiplayer games for shit.
 

Ulvai

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Sapient Pearwood said:
Ulvai said:
There weren't good any JRPGs, EVER.
Don't be ridiculous. If you don't like traditional JRPGs then there's Demon's Souls, TWEWY etc that follow a totally different formula.
Oh, yeah, TWEWY. Talk about ridiculous.
 

Wondermint13

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Gizmo1990 said:
Hi first ever topic created so if I make mistakes I am sorry.

So I am of the opinion that there has not been a good Final Fantasy since FF10.
(keeping my reply short as possible here, seeing as alot of escapists are really sensitive about the amount of Final Fantasy material is posted per week).

I Agree with you.
 

Ashcrexl

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XII was just Return of the Jedi? seriously, that's your only criticism? and you actually believe it's valid?
 

Akihiko

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Aug 21, 2008
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Blitzwing said:
I?ll never understand the problem people have with FF twelve.
If you didn't like the battle system in it, then it's hard to like the game really. Not that I'm saying it's a bad battle system, just wasn't my thing. The pacing on the story was pretty poor, often having to pass through multiple equally large areas before you'd finally get to the next plot point. Meaning your stuck just trolling through dungeons(Or doing the optional marks/fetch quests, which are also generally fighting) for hours on end until you finally get to the next plot point, and so you just get bored if you don't like the battle system.

That's my take on why I didn't like it, anyway.

XIII has the same problem, the gameplay is largely based around the combat system for both the main story and optional quests, and so again if you don't like the battle system, you're screwed. Personally I actually really liked the battle system of XIII, but that seems to be a minority opinion.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

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Mar 16, 2011
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I completely boggled at the desicion to make FF13-2 I mean they do know that no one liked it...right?

In what universe can people be so utterly self congratulatory they act to ignore the opinion of those consuming their product. If your a chef and someone says they don't like broccoli you don't pile more on thier plate...

The only reason I forgave the linearity of FF-10 was becuase I liked the characters FF13 does not even have that saving grace.
 

Jamboxdotcom

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xXxJessicaxXx said:
I completely boggled at the desicion to make FF13-2 I mean they do know that no one liked it...right?

In what universe can people be so utterly self congratulatory they act to ignore the opinion of those consuming their product. If your a chef and someone says they don't like broccoli you don't pile more on thier plate...
correction: no one in NA or Europe liked it. apparently it was quite popular in Japan.

personally, my favorite was FFVIII, or the first Tactics, if you wanna include that one. FFX was ok, but it's kinda sad when the minigame is more fun than the main game (yeah, over 100 hours spent on Blitzball here). also, adding voices was a terrible idea, imo, since they're all horrible. FFXI was a pretty good mmo if you could handle the slow pace. FFXII...let's just say i agree with those who wish Vaan and Penelo were completely cut from the game; imo, Vaan is worse than Squall, Tidus, and every whiny little brat in history combined. FFXIII had the same problem, except with ALL of its characters.
 

mireko

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Sep 23, 2010
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Eh, it's just that there are certain people in Square-Enix who shouldn't be working on these games, and they're missing some of the people who made the games good in the first place. If they can solve at least one of those problems, we may still see good Final Fantasy games in the future. Whether they carry the FF name or not is irrelevant, these games have never had anything to do with one another anyway.

I'm still optimistic about Type-0 and Versus XIII.

[sub]Also my first was VII and my favorite is IX.[/sub]
 

halbarad

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Well, the first FF you play isn't gonna be your favorite. I started with V when I was 5 so and played every single one a number of times now. VII is my favorite but I love a number of them.

My favorite five are, in order, VII, X (Blitzball certainly helped. Best Minigame in the FF series for me. But I genuinely like the main story), VIII, V, IX.


Honestly though, while FFXIII is a bit iffy in any respect it was still a decent enough game if you let yourself get sucked in. It's changes weren't welcomed and I understand that and I think too many changes were made between the normal FF type of game to this one. I will fully admit that to me, Hope is the worst character in Final Fantasy History though. There was absolutely nothing likable about that kid and I wanted him to die every single second of the game.
I did like Vanille though where most don't and also liked Sazh. The parts with the two of them together were the best parts of the game.
 

mireko

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VikingSteve said:
Something that should be mentioned that hasn't: the music. Nobuo Uematsu. Music played a big part in Final Fantasy for me. He hasn't been involved in a large role in the music of FF since 11. Coincidence that the series has gone to utter shit for me ever since 10? Probably not.

I don't think any other game has ever had music matter as much the way FF did. Nobuo just knew how to make great music for Final Fantasy.
Hamauzu isn't bad, though. FFXIII had a lot of faults, but music wasn't one of them.

A better example is Hironobu Sakaguchi. He did the concepts for I, II, IV, V, VI, VII and IX (i.e. the good ones), was the executive producer of X and is no longer working for Square. Coincidence? Well, maybe. I'm going to say it isn't one anyway.

[sub]He also has a rad mustache.[/sub]
 

Gizmo1990

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Oct 19, 2010
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Ashcrexl said:
XII was just Return of the Jedi? seriously, that's your only criticism? and you actually believe it's valid?
My problem is that 1. we already have return of the Jedi, and it is awesome and 2. it was return of the Jedi done BADLY and that is why it is bad.
 

Dr.Aidennwitz

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May 6, 2011
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Hello everyone, I'm new here. Here's my 0.03$ on the topic.

I'm almost 30, for a few years now I've been bored with jrpgs. I passionately hate everything moe and japanese over-melodramatisation. I'm all in for a good tear jerker, but it has to be done in style, not like every low-budget harem anime out there. That said, earlier FFs have had their share of this. Maybe it's just that it was only a part of the games, it was shown lightheartedly, using simple sprites and kind of like in a puppet theatre... and it wasn't dubbed, but I still like every FF up to IX (and XII).

It kinda saddens me that S-E projects a good story for adolescents, but can't make it appeal to other groups. I've seen a lot of Japanese series for adolescents made with such style and written so well, that it didn't matter I wasn't part of the target group. I understand Japanese culture, I get that they like when the characters act like whiny little brats, I just don't get why FF has to be a vessel for this. They can afford to hire writers that could write dialogue that appeals to both groups, so why don't they do that?

Let's leave the stories aside, stories are a personal matter and no one expects a jrpg to be really mature, so if you want a great story, I suggest a book. For me, what matters the most, are the characters, the dialogues and good atmosphere. FFXII's story is polarising (I liked it), but I think no one can deny that the dialogues are well-written. FFXIII on the other hand is written very simplistically, the characters repeat themselves, they use simple grunts and fail at expressing themselves. It's FFX all over again.

I hear FFXII wasn't a big hit in Japan, so maybe that's part of the problem, I assume the political games that were the heart of FFXII weren't liked by the core audience, so they went back to god-slaying melodrama. Too bad they threw out the baby with the bath water.

Also, FFXII's English dubbing is light years ahead of FFXIII's. What was S-E USA thinking...

I finished FFXIII only because of the fantastic battle system. I didn't feel anything when the credits rolled. For example, the idea of Fang and Vanille and their final deeds is really good, but the way it's shown, the dialogues that accompany it and the behaviour of other characters take everything from it, making it an empty shell of a good idea. Maybe younger people and those really obsessed with Japanese culture like these kinds of dramatisation, but for me it's just bad direction.

All that aside, I've been playing Radiant Historia lately. It has the melodrama, weird character choices, all that jrpg mumbo-jumbo, but it's also very well written, which makes it a great game in my opinion. That, and a good battle system. For me, it's one of the best jrpgs in recent years, if not the best. Why can't S-E make a FF game with this kind of writing? It's just beyond me. I guess I'm simply in the minority, judging from FFXIII's sales.

Also, on topic of FFXII, I agree - Vaan should be cut out. But he's not the real hero, cutscenes focusing on him are few and far between and they are eclipsed by everything related to other characters and the overall story, so I didn't feel he was much of an issue. He just tagged along for the ride.

And on the topic of the Return of the Jedi - FF games are all a blatant rip off of other pop culture ideas. None of them really come with fresh ideas and I don't care about that as long as the execution is good. If you're bothered with that I suggest time-traveling, because most of everything that comes out today is in one way or another based on past ideas.

Also, Star Wars was just Frank Herbert's Dune.
 

AbstractStream

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halbarad said:
Honestly though, while FFXIII is a bit iffy in any respect it was still a decent enough game if you let yourself get sucked in. It's changes weren't welcomed and I understand that and I think too many changes were made between the normal FF type of game to this one. I will fully admit that to me, Hope is the worst character in Final Fantasy History though. There was absolutely nothing likable about that kid and I wanted him to die every single second of the game.
I did like Vanille though where most don't and also liked Sazh. The parts with the two of them together were the best parts of the game.
Completely agree with your post. You took everything that I was gonna say.

pg.shadowrunner said:
More people liked XIII than you'd think. The vast majority of people who played it and STUCK with it liked it.
I stuck with it. Even the grueling grinding at the end.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

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Mar 16, 2011
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pg.shadowrunner said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
I completely boggled at the desicion to make FF13-2 I mean they do know that no one liked it...right?

In what universe can people be so utterly self congratulatory they act to ignore the opinion of those consuming their product. If your a chef and someone says they don't like broccoli you don't pile more on thier plate...

The only reason I forgave the linearity of FF-10 was becuase I liked the characters FF13 does not even have that saving grace.
More people liked XIII than you'd think. The vast majority of people who played it and STUCK with it liked it.
I played it up to the grand pulse hunting missions and then I couldnt take anymore. It was far to linear and the characters were grating.
 

EmperorSubcutaneous

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VikingSteve said:
Something that should be mentioned that hasn't: the music. Nobuo Uematsu. Music played a big part in Final Fantasy for me. He hasn't been involved in a large role in the music of FF since 11. Coincidence that the series has gone to utter shit for me ever since 10? Probably not.

I don't think any other game has ever had music matter as much the way FF did. Nobuo just knew how to make great music for Final Fantasy.
He did the entire soundtrack for XIV. And most of it is pretty good. (Minus the majority of the battle tracks.)

Sapient Pearwood said:
I personally really liked FF12 and thought that 13 was a decent addition to the series just rather average like 10 and 5, certainly not bad on the level of 10-2 or 11. I haven't tried 14 but it certainly seems to have the same problems as 11 had, namely Squeenix can't make multiplayer games for shit.
XI has actually consistently been one of highest rated games in the MMO genre. It has aged poorly since WoW made the genre so much more casual-friendly, but it's excellent for an EQ-era MMO.
 

Velocity Eleven

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May 20, 2009
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I dont understand this whole "not as good as they used to be"... if you ask me, they were great back in the day and they're great now
 

Moonlight Butterfly

Be the Leaf
Mar 16, 2011
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pg.shadowrunner said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
pg.shadowrunner said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
I completely boggled at the desicion to make FF13-2 I mean they do know that no one liked it...right?

In what universe can people be so utterly self congratulatory they act to ignore the opinion of those consuming their product. If your a chef and someone says they don't like broccoli you don't pile more on thier plate...

The only reason I forgave the linearity of FF-10 was becuase I liked the characters FF13 does not even have that saving grace.
More people liked XIII than you'd think. The vast majority of people who played it and STUCK with it liked it.
I played it up to the grand pulse hunting missions and then I couldnt take anymore. It was far to linear and the characters were grating.
So what? JRPGS have a linear structure. And as for the characters, to each his own. I found most of them to be quite endearing, with a few obvious exeptions (Fang had no bearing on the plot until the end, and Vanille was Rikku 2.0).
In most you can go and explore areas, talk to people, do side quests. Dragon Quest 9 is a nice example of what I expect from JRPG or the original Suikoden. Final Fantasy 13 just seems like a movie with a corridor full of enemies in the middle of each cut scene.

Vanille was nothing like Rikku. Cool Cousin =//= vacuous bimbo
 

Latinidiot

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Ulvai said:
There weren't good any JRPGs, EVER.

Oh this is going to be fun.

You should know better than saying things like this if you've been here over a year.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

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Mar 16, 2011
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To me a linear corridor game isn't an RPG it's just a 'story' if I can't explore and experience the world the creators have put me in then what's the point really?
 

cefm

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Mar 26, 2010
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1 was good. It had to be to start the series off so well. It was a real achievement given how primitive the genre and technology was at the time. Story made barely any sense, but it gave a sense of grandeur and world-wide exploration and scope. Plus tons of replay value with different teams (something the other FF's have totally crapped the bed on)

2-4 were not great. 3 had the most flexibility with "jobs", but no character development. 4 had the first "fixed" party with deep characters, but the overall combat system was flawed.

5 finally got the "job" system better, but again the infinite flexibility of the party members meant none of them had any character. The overall story was kind of cool and engaging.

6 had a wonderful combination of a "fixed" party with incredible characters and depth and an immense and dramatic storyline. Your party composition greatly affected gameplay, but you had flexibility to select which parties you wanted to use. Overall one of the best ever.

7 you all know - my one gripe was the stupid golden saucer games and chocobo racing you needed to do in order to get essential gear to finish the game. Perhaps the pinacle of regular FF gameplay, it also signaled the franchise's descent into stupid and frustrating mini-games and sidequests at the cost of main plotlines, and too much focus on cut-scenes instead of gameplay.

8 was an abomination. Total betrayal of the series and the fundamental tenents of RPG's. Scaling enemy levels up to match yours is a bullshit idea.

9 was a flashback in many ways to the cartoonishness of 1, and had a great story, although the main adversary was hard to look at. One of the best.

10 was a bold step into new technology and graphics, but needing to play blitzball annoyed the crap out of me. Also the new budget and technology allowed the writers to more fully render the personality of the characters. Unfortunately it was obvious that the writers had no idea how NOT to make the protagonist characters as annoying and insufferable as possible. This started another downward spiral of miserable characters being forced on an unwilling player base.

11-13 has been more of the same. Too much focus on side-quests and stupid games. Increasing restrictions on options and choices, probably driven by the inexorable necessity of driving you to the next 10-minute animated cut-scene. Abominably bad characters (even Japanese kids don't like whiny losers or wildly irrational idiots), and overall poor quality. Hopefully this is like the dolldrums between 1-6, but somehow I doubt that another Renaissance is on the horizon.....