About Gordon Freeman and other Silent Protagonists in terms of their relationship with the player

lord.jeff

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The problem I had with Gordan being silent is it made the conversations play out really weirdly as soon as they got through saying several character just seem to straight up ignore you, silent protagonists work but not so much when support characters are so prevalent and engaging in conversation with you.
 

CManator

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I haven't played HL so I can't really comment on Mr. Freeman.

Silent protagonists have their place in gaming, how it's implemented is the key.

It's perfect for a game like skyrim because you really can shape the character how you want. Go where you want, do and say what you want, make choices based on what you would do or RP as a totally different person. Giving the character a voice or set personality would actually be detrimental.

In a game like Chrono Trigger however, the character is defined, the story is fixed, there are no real choices in the game, Crono just happens to be a mute with no explanation for it. It's still one of my favorite games of all time, but his silence never really sat well with me and he was the least interesting character. At least he was able to express a handful of emotions through body language though.

So the moral is, if you're trying to tell a story, give the character a personality. If you want the player to create their own story, them the main character should shut the hell up.
 

FalloutJack

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I agree that the player defines the personality of the silent protagonist, just as much as the first-person-view is there to point out that this is your eyes viewing this world.

Besides, everyone knows that Freeman has a personality. See? [http://www.accursedfarms.com/movies/fm/]
 

SpectacularWebHead

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I like to think of Freeman as basically yahtzee, Chell as slightly psychotic, and all other silent characters I basically voice myself. I actually do find it easier to relate with silent protagonists, because you really are them, even if there are no aspects of choice.
 

Twilight_guy

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Yeah, and that's exactly why he has no personality. He's not a character. He's a shell. He's hollow. He's fucking Bella Swan. Characters have goals, motivations, mannerisms, history, etc. Gordon Freeman has nothing of a character. Nobody knows anything about him besides the fact that he has a degree from MIT and one story from MIT. Within the realm of writing, he's the worse possible character ever. He's the character that you don't say anything about to let the reader flesh out, a mistake for any writer. Luckily, he's in a game. Games have a different relationship with there audience. So they can get away with Mr. no-character. You can make all kinds of arguments over whether that's good or bad, but its quiet clear he doesn't have a personality. Saying he does is like saying a brick has a personality because I pick it up, move it around, and give it a voice.
 

eggy32

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I did not like Gordon being a silent protagonist. I remember gordon having to do things I wouldn't have. I don't remember which scene it was exactly, since it's been a long time since I played half life but Alex or Eli said something to Gordon and I immediately though "Np, let's not do that. My idea's better." However, since Gordon Freeman apparently had a personality for a moment, he decided to agree with them and do exactly what I didn't want him to.

Another example was any of the times I had to shoot down those stupid Combine helicopter/airship things. I didn't want to. It was boring as hell. Given the chance I'd have gone right past them.

How the hell am I supposed to project myself onto someone who does things I don't?
 

G-Force

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Terramax said:
G-Force said:
I would have to disagree that character progression with silent characters is impossible. I offer an example I use a lot in these discussions.

Half Life was my first PC shooter and as a result I was getting very used to the controls, I was overly cautious, took things very slow and panicked during firefights. As I grew used to the game and the controls so did my skills and attitude. I was way bolder in fights and take crazy risks for the sake of staying alive. Gordon Freeman in my narrative of Half Life evolved from an cautious inexperienced survivor to a confident combat veteran. I went from dreading firefights to waiting for them in antsipation as my confidence grew.
So is that Freeman progressing in the narrative of the game, or yourself personally?
If Freeman is meant to represent the player's skillset and mental state than my progress is Freeman's progression.
 

Tohuvabohu

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....I actually think there's a reason why Gordon never says anything. Like an actual-in-universe reason behind it. Not because Valve forgot to write any lines for him. I dunno, I think Gordon being unable to communicate yet able accomplish EVERYTHING is a mystery with an answer that Valve isn't telling us.

OT: silent protagonists aren't bad. They can work well if done right. In my opinion, a speaking protagonist isn't always an improvement over a silent one. Case in point: Dead Space.

I liked Isaac alot in Dead Space 1 when he never said anything.
And I thought Isaac was an annoying tit in Dead Space 2.

Perhaps you can blame it on the way he was written. He never had anything worthwhile to say beyond "Diana? Diana!? FUCK!" and his tone of voice/reaction to things sometimes goes completely against what I'd expect an average human being to do. There's lots of reasons why I thought Dead Space 2 was nowhere near as scary as the first, and one of the major reasons is Isaac himself. Him talking was a ruination of the scariness. Talking protagonists isn't ALWAYS a ruination of Scary, but in this case, it was done all wrong and really screwed up the atmosphere.

Then there's the 'missed opportunities'. When creators had a chance to allow a protagonist to express himself, but didn't, and for no reason. For example: The Master Chief.

Master Chief = Not a silent protagonist right? Cause he casually jabbers on and on in cutscenes. Yet, he says NOTHING. NOTHING during gameplay. And that sucks.
Sure Cortana was the one who did all the remarking on everything going on around you. But that also raises the question of why the chief never responds to Cortana during gameplay, yet casually banters with her in cutscenes. The disconnect here is incredible, and is really one of the major reasons I always thought of the Chief as a huge bore. By comparison, Gordon - who says nothing - Is a far more interesting character.

Remember Tommy from Prey? How the game never forced a cutscene on you in order to allow Tommy a chance to talk? How he'd react to things and remark on them as you saw them during gameplay? That's what I'm talking about.
 

G-Force

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eggy32 said:
I did not like Gordon being a silent protagonist. I remember gordon having to do things I wouldn't have. I don't remember which scene it was exactly, since it's been a long time since I played half life but Alex or Eli said something to Gordon and I immediately though "Np, let's not do that. My idea's better." However, since Gordon Freeman apparently had a personality for a moment, he decided to agree with them and do exactly what I didn't want him to.

Another example was any of the times I had to shoot down those stupid Combine helicopter/airship things. I didn't want to. It was boring as hell. Given the chance I'd have gone right past them.

How the hell am I supposed to project myself onto someone who does things I don't?
You didn't want to shoot down the helicopters because you saw it as a chore. Your patricular Gordon Freeman is a shows a man who's acting against his own motivations and out of simple motivation. Your disdain for the conflict and enemies you encountered are his own so even when there are clashes those just add another layer to his character in your Half Life experience
 

BartyMae

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Others have touched upon this, but I'll say it anyways. Silent protagonists work best, I think, in [semi/mostly] non-linear games where you have multiple choices in what to do, and presumably, you're given choices that make some sort of sense but individually appeal to different sorts of people. When you're in a linear game like Half-Life, yes, a lot of your actions are representing what the protagonist is...but at times, especially in Half-Life, some of them aren't, due to the game railroading you in whatever direction it wants to go. This is why I prefer a game like S.T.A.L.K.E.R., where you're given a mission by someone else, and you can choose to do it or completely ignore it - or even sabotage it if you so wish. Sometimes, when you ignore it, you don't do as well as you could've if you'd listened - or flat-out lose - but it makes sense within the game that what happens does happen. Generally speaking, you want to do what the game is telling you to do, because it appears to be the most sensible course of action at the time - but if for whatever reason, it doesn't appeal to you, well, you can also choose to do something else.

There's nothing worse in a game where you're presented a course of action that seems stupid - or something that you just don't want to do for whatever reasons - and you have no choice but to do it anyways. Half-Life (2) is most certainly guilty of this a few times, particularly when dealing with some of the side-characters.
 
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skywolfblue said:
G-Force said:
While reading a lot of threads about Half Life 2 I'm a bit surprised about how players simply say Gordon Freeman "has no personality." I'm always quick to let players know that their personality/playing habbits are what shape the character.
"Here is a lump of clay, imagine that it is a beautiful statue."

While being imaginative with characters is fun for some people, I'd prefer something more tangible.
agreed. I don't like not having any input on the actual game itself, which is what bugged me about it.

silent protagonists are fine, but when you are shoehorned into doing things without any input yourself, it kind of feels like a letdown.

still, opinions are opinions, i'd never tell someone they aren't allowed to have fun with it if that's what they are looking for.
 

Burrito With Legs

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It's good having games with silent protagonists. I wouldn't like it if all games were like that, but it is fun to have a silent protagonist once in a while. It also makes it a lot more fun to stream those games, because you can use your voice as the character's voice. Also, there wouldn't be funny series on YouTube like Freeman's Mind if Freeman wasn't silent.
 

Smooth Operator

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Well silent protagonists aren't characters, they are only a glory hole, your extension into the game.
Obviously this means that a character is missing, but at the same time it means that you don't haveto wrestle a designers image when you find it faulty.



Everything has it's ups and downs.
 

Casual Shinji

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The reason for Freeman lacking vocal cords is simply that the Half-Life games are First Person and have no cutscenes.

You are always in control of his movements, and adding a voice to that would only interfer with your own interpretation of the world around you. Most of the narrative is given to you via the surroundings, and your mind reacting to that is what breaths it to life.
A voice would only call attention to itself and defuse the experience of having these events play out in front of you.

Remember Ravenholm, Nova Prospect, and the Citadel? Image a voice floating in mid air, constantly reflecting on what's happening and what your current goal is;....Sucks, doesn't it?
 

ElPatron

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eggy32 said:
I don't remember which scene it was exactly, since it's been a long time since I played half life but Alex or Eli said something to Gordon and I immediately though "Np, let's not do that. My idea's better." However, since Gordon Freeman apparently had a personality for a moment, he decided to agree with them and do exactly what I didn't want him to.
And why is that different from any other game with scripted events? In Mass Effect 3 you can't say "Nope, let's just ditch everyone and GTFO" and skip the whole "having to fight a war" thing.
 

eggy32

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G-Force said:
eggy32 said:
I did not like Gordon being a silent protagonist. I remember gordon having to do things I wouldn't have. I don't remember which scene it was exactly, since it's been a long time since I played half life but Alex or Eli said something to Gordon and I immediately though "Np, let's not do that. My idea's better." However, since Gordon Freeman apparently had a personality for a moment, he decided to agree with them and do exactly what I didn't want him to.

Another example was any of the times I had to shoot down those stupid Combine helicopter/airship things. I didn't want to. It was boring as hell. Given the chance I'd have gone right past them.

How the hell am I supposed to project myself onto someone who does things I don't?
You didn't want to shoot down the helicopters because you saw it as a chore. Your patricular Gordon Freeman is a shows a man who's acting against his own motivations and out of simple motivation. Your disdain for the conflict and enemies you encountered are his own so even when there are clashes those just add another layer to his character in your Half Life experience
And that would be fine as long as all the supporting characters reacted to it properly. However, they all acted as though Gordon was fine with just doing whatever they said, when in actuality, if Gordon could talk he'd have told them to shut up and follow him instead.
 

eggy32

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ElPatron said:
eggy32 said:
I don't remember which scene it was exactly, since it's been a long time since I played half life but Alex or Eli said something to Gordon and I immediately though "Np, let's not do that. My idea's better." However, since Gordon Freeman apparently had a personality for a moment, he decided to agree with them and do exactly what I didn't want him to.
And why is that different from any other game with scripted events? In Mass Effect 3 you can't say "Nope, let's just ditch everyone and GTFO" and skip the whole "having to fight a war" thing.
Because in Mass Effect you're playing as someone who wants to save the world right from the start. And in Mass Effect you're at least given several methods to do it. In Half Life, I wanted to save the world too. I just didn't want to do it the way Alyx and Eli did. Now I have no problem with a main character doing things I disagree with as long as that character actually has a personality and a motivation. Gordon has neither of those things.
 

Squidbulb

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They're the video games equivalent of a character from a choose-your-own-adventure book. It's very difficult to have a good plot when the main character isn't really a character at all. Amazingly, I haven't actually got round to playing Half-life yet, but if the character doesn't speak, how are we supposed to know what their reason for actually taking part in the plot is?
Just because it's first-person doesn't mean you can't have a good main character. Take Garrett from Thief for example, he's by far the best part of the story in those games.
I assume the plot would be better if we knew why the character is doing what they're doing or what they actually feel about the situation.
 

ElPatron

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eggy32 said:
Because in Mass Effect you're playing as someone who wants to save the world right from the start. And in Mass Effect you're at least given several methods to do it. In Half Life, I wanted to save the world too. I just didn't want to do it the way Alyx and Eli did. Now I have no problem with a main character doing things I disagree with as long as that character actually has a personality and a motivation. Gordon has neither of those things.
Clearly Gordon has personality and motivation, otherwise he could have stayed at the bottom of Black Mesa and wait around for the crack team of badass soldiers to riddle him with bullets. I mean, he is a scientist - he pulled himself trough a lot of complicated situations and learned how to handle a very broad range of weaponry to survive.

Those several methods of saving the galaxy and whatever were also designed by the devs themselves. Every line of dialogue was punched in by the writers, too bad if you don't agree with any of them.

HL is linear, Mass Effect is not and includes a lot of player choice. But none of the games allow you to just be yourself because of the scripted nature of those videogames. I don't agree that Gordon was developed to be "the player".
 

ElPatron

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Squidbulb said:
mazingly, I haven't actually got round to playing Half-life yet, but if the character doesn't speak, how are we supposed to know what their reason for actually taking part in the plot is?

(...)

I assume the plot would be better if we knew why the character is doing what they're doing or what they actually feel about the situation.
Gordon is there because... reasons. I'm only speaking for the first game, but Gordon is just caught in the "ground zero" of the event that begins the game (wow, I'm spoiling a 14 year old game, sue me).

The character is fighting for his life and while the game doesn't have time constraints there is an implied sense of urgency. That's it. There's aliens and monsters and creepy stuff happening and the humans that I though would rescue me are actually there to tie up loose ends. I don't need a better excuse to blast things in the face with a shotgun.

If I was trying to survive a HL-type situation I wouldn't think about my life, who I am, the meaning of love and my political opinions.