Absurd and unrealistic expectations for Half-Life 3

[The Artificially Prolonged]

The only real expectation I have for Half Life 3 is that it likely be on a new engine and at some point in the game a headcrab will find itself on the wrong end of a crowbar.

 

[Azwrath]

a) Half-Life 1 and 2 were built on innovative storytelling method, and Valve has been largely outpaced in this regard. And let's face it, Valve is no BioWare or Bethesda or even *gasp* Infinity Ward when it comes to storytelling. The story will probably be mediocre.

First thing's first. Bioware is good at storytelling but not great and that is due to the fact that their stories are maybe mediocre at best. What they excel at is creating some intresting and fun characters that tell those mediocre stories in an intresting setting where you can chose to go through the storie as the a-hole of the universe or some freaken messiah.

Now when it come to Bethesda, well they suck at storytelling. Take the Elder Scrolls series for example. The last one that had any decent storytelling is Morrowind mainly because of the unique setting and because you could discover the story and the world at your own pace. What they are good at is creating big, immersive and beautiful worlds.

As for Infinity Ward, well i'm not a fan of modern military shooters so i'm probably be a bit biased here but i don't remember the Call of Duty games being praised for their outstanding stories or complex plots.

b) Half-Life 2's sequel has a lot of catching up to do with modern FPS. Even for a game which is based on a minimalist inferface and detailed physics engine, it still won't be able to hold any water if the gameplay is as shallow as the Aral Sea.

"Modern" FPS? The only difference betwen modern and older FPS games, besides the extremly overused cover based system, are improved graphics, animations and sound assets. Considering that we are talking about Valve i can bet those are going to be good enough for whatever the standards may be at the time.

Now i'm not saying HL3 is going to be the best things that ever happened to gaming. For all i know the game might never get released or it might suck. But the one constant that can be found throughout Valve's games is a high quality standard.

 

[Nazulu]

I have no idea what you are talking about when you bring up the game play. I love Half-Life 2's game play. It's fluent, fast, and allows me to move around a lot more than most FPS's. It worked perfectly with all the designs of each game (computer wise). What do you think they need to re-invent?

I do have some expectations and I sure hope they continue the story well and get better writing than what they threw into Portal 2. Also, I'd at least hope they try to do something different. Nothing drastic though, this is a sequel after all.

 

[Doom972]

Infinity Ward? You mean "Russia invades all of Europe at once"? Yeah, that is The Room level of storytelling.

You are tearing me apart TheKasp!!!

Younger and new gamers seem to want to have the plot spoonfed to them. I love Bioware games, but not every game needs to be like that. If Deus Ex, for example, had such long dialogues it would've only had a negative effect on it, because you wouldn't feel like you're the one uncovering the conspiracy, but everyone else around you. I like it when the game trusts me to be able to figure things out for myself (even when I don't).

 

[x EvilErmine x]

That it will ever be released sometime before I die of old age? I know absurd isn't it.

Is it just me though or does anyone feel like they were really looking forward to Half Life 3 but now it's taken so long that you really stopped caring? I mean we still don't even know if it's even in development do we?

It sorta feels like Valve made Half Life 2 and the episodes but they now have no idea how to end the story so they have just put it on hold. Which if that's true then i sorta respect them for that. Instead of just rushing out a cheap cash-in ending they just left us hanging while they try to figure it all out themselves.

 

[MammothBlade]

Because you say so, right? You do know that episode 3 (or Half-Life 3 whatever) is just bubbling under the surface now. We haven't had any real news related to it in years, all we have is forum speculation. No doubt that the nanosecond it is officially announced, it will have the greatest load of hype and expectations to live up to perhaps in the entire history of gaming, unless it turns into a case of Duke Nukem Forever. But for now I wouldn't say it has any burden on it, since it's almost vaporware at this point.

Core gameplay redesigned from scratch? To do what exactly? Tell me, how many recent AAA shooters can you name that have more complex gameplay and level design than Half-Life 2? Since its release shooters haven't so much evolved as they have become mindless popcorn entertainment. In comparison Half-life 2 is actually quite complex compared to most big shooters released in the last few years: no regenerating health, suit charge, vehicle sections where you actually have to move the vehicle yourself, light puzzle and platforming sections (like the beach in Sandtraps) and 10 weapons and their ammo management.

I guess, if you're just talking about "pure" FPS, those which are based mostly on shooting things with no RPG elements. I'd say Halo 4, but I've only played the first, so, I don't know.

What I do not expect that it's gonna become some Holy Grail and reinvent the whole shooter genre. The funny thing is, despite however acclaimed and praised HL2 was, almost no other shooter tried to imitate their way of storytelling or tried for once to go without flashing goals and arrows that show the player the way. It's hard to do what Valve is doing, and therefore most developers don't even try.

I think the problem is that a lot of people expect just that from HL3, people expect Valve to be the "saviour" of gaming somehow. That's more or less why I made this thread.

Example:

I don't know if they're being serious, but those sorts of expectations.

For two, well I don;t blame you for this, because it's really the subtlties in things, like level design, enemy placement, and game mechanic focus that makes all the difference in Half Life games, I mean ust think of Half Life 2, and tell me what are the differences between, say RavenHolm, and the Return to city 17? there isn;t any difference in the actual shooting mechanics, but it seemlessly, moves from, high action, to tense survival, without losing a beat, and that's because the great depth in Half Life's gameplay, doesn't come from, complex shooty sticks, contrived leveling systems, or even it's damned physics engine, but from the shear intelligence and flexibility of it's core design, to ceate depth in the gameplay... because gameplay encompasses more than just when you're shooting at stuff, and takes into account everything from level design and item placement, to implementation of player freedoms and organic problem solving... all of which are pretty much timeless and universal truths, that make a good game, it's why, you know the older half life games are stil playable, and enjoyable, despite being old, because at their core, the design philosiphy is solid and engaging...<.<

No no, I absolutely love subtlety, but to me, Half-Life 2 isn't all that. I played it once, and I wouldn't play it again, not in a blue moon, because it's got little re-playability, not in the ability to play differently, not in unlocking more content, none of that.

Half-Life 1 was great, but these days it just wouldn't hold up. Like I said, in both games there's a lot going on under the hood, but what about greater versatility in gameplay? So, you have say, 10 weapons, but limited tactical freedom. I'm not going to see it as getting an AAA game's worth if it doesn't do more than that, but then, those are my expectations of a great FPS as opposed to other peoples' expectations from the next Half-Life game.

You know you're comparing two very different ways of storytelling, right? You don't need constant dialoge to tell a narrative or convey emotion. It's like comparing Shadow of the Colossus with Resident Evil, and saying it's worse because there's not as much cutscenes and dialogue

I guess what I mean is, can Valve really create a deep and immersive world in the same way BioWare or Bethesda can? There's this expectation that they need to match that level of storytelling in their own way. For sure, Portal 1 and 2 are the closest to great storytelling from Valve for some time. I don't doubt they could create a story that's a good continuation of the Half-Life franchise, but that's it. Its story will probably come off as weak compared to others.

The reason I mention Infinity Ward is because they're great at making an impression, even though the core gameplay of CoD single player is shallow and linear. I personally despise CoD but it's not without merit for its way of creating a first-person cinematic experience - which isn't too conceptually dissimilar to Half-Life 2's first-person narratives.

What could separate Half-Life 3 from a generic Science-Fiction FPS?

Younger and new gamers seem to want to have the plot spoonfed to them. I love Bioware games, but not every game needs to be like that. If Deus Ex, for example, had such long dialogues it would've only had a negative effect on it, because you wouldn't feel like you're the one uncovering the conspiracy, but everyone else around you. I like it when the game trusts me to be able to figure things out for myself (even when I don't).

Oi, I'm neither young nor new to gaming. I'll have you know I love the original Deus Ex, HR, and System Shock 2. They employ subtle storytelling through the environment - books, newspapers, NPCs, everything. Then this might as well be about Half-Life vs. its more interactive FPS-RPG sisters. I guess I just don't like Half-Life as much anyway.
Also, that first remark sounds pretty prejudiced. There are plenty of younger or "new" gamers who absolutely love complex, immersive games, and plenty of older, more seasoned gamers who enjoy the likes of CoD and Farmville.

 

[templar1138a]

Well the first and foremost absurd and unrealistic expectation is expecting that it will ever be released.

Hear hear. Valve isn't a developer; it's a digital retailer.

 

[Poetic Nova]

Only thing i expect (if it ever gets released, doubt so) is high unnescecary praise due to it's lackluster gameplay.

Edit: And for being an obvious beta ones again.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I guess what I mean is, can Valve really create a deep and immersive world in the same way BioWare or Bethesda can? There's this expectation that they need to match that level of storytelling in their own way. For sure, Portal 1 and 2 are the closest to great storytelling from Valve for some time. I don't doubt they could create a story that's a good continuation of the Half-Life franchise, but that's it. Its story will probably come off as weak compared to others.

The reason I mention Infinity Ward is because they're great at making an impression, even though the core gameplay of CoD single player is shallow and linear. I personally despise CoD but it's not without merit for its way of creating a first-person cinematic experience - which isn't too conceptually dissimilar to Half-Life 2's first-person narratives.

What could separate Half-Life 3 from a generic Science-Fiction FPS?

They don't need to do it the same as Bioware and Bethesda to create a deep and immersive world. People who like Valve's way of communicating a story ingame will know what to expect in that regard, and don't want a big cinematic, dialoge heavy blockbuster. Atleast I don't.

The charm of Valve games is that they keep everything pretty sober despite the grand setting it might have. Though I do feel Portal 2 got a bit too cute for it's own good. But then that game shouldn't really have been made anyway.

 

[Luca72]

The reason I mention Infinity Ward is because they're great at making an impression, even though the core gameplay of CoD single player is shallow and linear. I personally despise CoD but it's not without merit for its way of creating a first-person cinematic experience - which isn't too conceptually dissimilar to Half-Life 2's first-person narratives.

What could separate Half-Life 3 from a generic Science-Fiction FPS?

Infinity Ward succeeds at what it's trying to do, which, as you say, is to make a cinematic FPS. All the pieces of a Call of Duty game come together to make a functional film, with plenty of shooting bits in between. In the same way, you can say Die Hard with a Vengeance is a fully functional movie - it has all the components required for someone to recognize it as a movie.

But is that really where we should be taking games? I consider Half Life 2 to have more tactical variety than almost any FPS introduced since. Almost every map you experience in Half Life 2 has multiple structures, plenty of entrance/exit points, and multiple tiers. You typically have a full arsenal of weapons, so you can play however you want. You're run speed is ridiculous so movement is almost seamless - you can easily run for cover, jump through windows, etc.

Again, I'm really not sure what you're talking about when you mention modern day improvements in FPS's. A melee button? I guess they could add in a scope, but I don't know how much that would actually add to gameplay. If you're talking about the graphics alone, then yes, they're out of date. The most likely scenario to me is that Valve is waiting to finish an improved Source engine, since even a game with good art assets is still going to look like a game with good art assets from 2007.

 

[Legion]

To be honest I think it will be over-hyped purely because Valve have left it for so damn long. The more people are forced to wait, the longer they have to come up with idea's of what it will be like. If they'd released it a year or so after Episode 2, then while it'd still have been hyped, it would have been a lot more realistic.

With such a long time frame, I can't see Valve being able to live up to fan expectations.

Is it just me though or does anyone feel like they were really looking forward to Half Life 3 but now it's taken so long that you really stopped caring? I mean we still don't even know if it's even in development do we?

I am like that also.

If they announce it, I will be happy and definitely buy it, but I won't be hyped. It's been too long for me, the anticipation has gone.

 

[Doom972]

Younger and new gamers seem to want to have the plot spoonfed to them. I love Bioware games, but not every game needs to be like that. If Deus Ex, for example, had such long dialogues it would've only had a negative effect on it, because you wouldn't feel like you're the one uncovering the conspiracy, but everyone else around you. I like it when the game trusts me to be able to figure things out for myself (even when I don't).

Oi, I'm neither young nor new to gaming. I'll have you know I love the original Deus Ex, HR, and System Shock 2. They employ subtle storytelling through the environment - books, newspapers, NPCs, everything. Then this might as well be about Half-Life vs. its more interactive FPS-RPG sisters. I guess I just don't like Half-Life as much anyway.
Also, that first remark sounds pretty prejudiced. There are plenty of younger or "new" gamers who absolutely love complex, immersive games, and plenty of older, more seasoned gamers who enjoy the likes of CoD and Farmville.

Because everyone is unique, special little snowflake and nobody is similar, right? I'm not talking about the exceptions.
It's fine if you don't like Half Life, I don't have any intention of telling you what you should or shouldn't like. But if you say that Call of Duty games have better writing than the Half Life games, it says something about you - what I understood from what you said, is that you prefer a simple plot in which every bit of plot is directly delivered to you, over something a more complex that delivers the plot in a subtle way - which fits the observation I made.

 

[MammothBlade]

Younger and new gamers seem to want to have the plot spoonfed to them. I love Bioware games, but not every game needs to be like that. If Deus Ex, for example, had such long dialogues it would've only had a negative effect on it, because you wouldn't feel like you're the one uncovering the conspiracy, but everyone else around you. I like it when the game trusts me to be able to figure things out for myself (even when I don't).

Oi, I'm neither young nor new to gaming. I'll have you know I love the original Deus Ex, HR, and System Shock 2. They employ subtle storytelling through the environment - books, newspapers, NPCs, everything. Then this might as well be about Half-Life vs. its more interactive FPS-RPG sisters. I guess I just don't like Half-Life as much anyway.
Also, that first remark sounds pretty prejudiced. There are plenty of younger or "new" gamers who absolutely love complex, immersive games, and plenty of older, more seasoned gamers who enjoy the likes of CoD and Farmville.

Because everyone is unique, special little snowflake and nobody is similar, right? I'm not talking about the exceptions.
It's fine if you don't like Half Life, I don't have any intention of telling you what you should or shouldn't like. But if you say that Call of Duty games have better writing than the Half Life games, it says something about you - what I understood from what you said, is that you prefer a simple plot in which every bit of plot is directly given to you, over something a more complex that delivers the plot in a subtle way - which fits the observation I made.

Then you misinterpreted what I said, and probably didn't read all of my post - I enjoy games which don't spoonfeed you, which let you figure it out for yourself. And in my view, CoD's writing is terrible, but Half-Life 2 isn't much better, the characters are pretty forgettable, people must be easily impressed if they think it an example of great writing. It was just the way the story was told that made it stand out.

 

[Doom972]

Younger and new gamers seem to want to have the plot spoonfed to them. I love Bioware games, but not every game needs to be like that. If Deus Ex, for example, had such long dialogues it would've only had a negative effect on it, because you wouldn't feel like you're the one uncovering the conspiracy, but everyone else around you. I like it when the game trusts me to be able to figure things out for myself (even when I don't).

Oi, I'm neither young nor new to gaming. I'll have you know I love the original Deus Ex, HR, and System Shock 2. They employ subtle storytelling through the environment - books, newspapers, NPCs, everything. Then this might as well be about Half-Life vs. its more interactive FPS-RPG sisters. I guess I just don't like Half-Life as much anyway.
Also, that first remark sounds pretty prejudiced. There are plenty of younger or "new" gamers who absolutely love complex, immersive games, and plenty of older, more seasoned gamers who enjoy the likes of CoD and Farmville.

Because everyone is unique, special little snowflake and nobody is similar, right? I'm not talking about the exceptions.
It's fine if you don't like Half Life, I don't have any intention of telling you what you should or shouldn't like. But if you say that Call of Duty games have better writing than the Half Life games, it says something about you - what I understood from what you said, is that you prefer a simple plot in which every bit of plot is directly given to you, over something a more complex that delivers the plot in a subtle way - which fits the observation I made.

Then you misinterpreted what I said, and probably didn't read all of my post - I enjoy games which don't spoonfeed you, which let you figure it out for yourself. And in my view, CoD's writing is terrible, but Half-Life 2 isn't much better, the characters are pretty forgettable, people must be easily impressed if they think it an example of great writing. It was just the way the story was told that made it stand out.

If you just run around looking for stuff to blow up, like a regular CoD player, you will miss important plot details. For example, in the first chapter, you can learn about what's going on in the city by approaching NPCs and hearing what they have to say. In addition, some information is delivered by world objects, like posters and such. Alsom the game doesn't have cutscenes, so if you go and look for other stuff to do while someone is talking to you, you will miss out on important plot information. If Alyx Vance, Eli Vance, Dr Breen, the Reverend, Judith Mossman, and the G-Man aren't memorable characters, I guess we just have to agree to disagree, because we have very different definitions of what memorable is.

 

[Jimmy T. Malice]

Well the first and foremost absurd and unrealistic expectation is expecting that it will ever be released.

Hear hear. Valve isn't a developer; it's a digital retailer.

The many games that they have developed beg to differ.

 

[templar1138a]

Well the first and foremost absurd and unrealistic expectation is expecting that it will ever be released.

Hear hear. Valve isn't a developer; it's a digital retailer.

The many games that they have developed beg to differ.

For the benefit of the Pickypants News table, they're not a developer anymore.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_developed_by_Valve