Ace Combat for Newbies

[Dalisclock]

So, prompted by the article on the front page and the fact Ace Combat 7 just came out a little bit ago, I'm a little bit curious about the series. I haven't played any of the games but I've seen the intro movies for 7(From the he embedded video in the article) and the one that Unskippable did years ago(5 or 6 maybe. It had a golden statue of a king shown in the intro movie and that's what I remember).

So what I gather is that it's very arcadey, so on the light side of the Flight Sim realism scale(if it's even considered a flight Sim), apparently set in a world that's like ours but not ours(Different Country names and geography but similar tech levels). The cut-scenes kinda remind of Call of Duty, that kinda serious feel to them despite being weapons porn, though the cutscene and the gameplay for AC7 seemed kinda disconnected from each other(I presume they meet up at some point).

Am I correct in my assessment? I'm guessing a couple people on this forum have played the series and can give me an idea what to expect if I decide to try it out.

Also, since there's at least 7 of these things(numbered ones, at least), does it matter where one starts or just grab one and see if I like it? Is there a continuing plot-line or something I need to be aware of(like Metal Gear) or are they all more or less self contained?

I guess I should also ask if there's a general consensus on best and worst entries.

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

"Very arcadey" and CoD comparisons kind of make me think that you think its basically a target practice style shooter where enemies will pop out in front of you and you can easily shoot them which it isn't. Learning to manoeuvre and how to actually use weapons effectivly are a big part of it.

When people refer to it as "arcadey" they mean you have plenty of ammo and the controls are pretty simple, not that the gameplay doesn't take skill or time to learn. Just because you fire a missile while locked on it doesn't mean you will hit 100% of the time, it'll miss probably more than it'll hit.

As for the storyline, it has a continuity but not in the same sense as MGS. It's more like a world history with some call backs to previous games. That said the plot isn't amazing.

 

[meiam]

You're mostly correct.

So first, while it is titled "7", 1-3 aren't out in the west (a bastardized version of 3 was released in the west but it's like 1/4 of the game) and there was a "0" release after 5. Also there's ace combat assault horizon that's very different (it's set in the real world and feature helicopter segment) and a few off shoot on PSP and mobile.

The idea behind the games is very arcady, you have 80 to sometime close to 200 missiles on your plane and will typically shoot down at least 20 enemy planes every missions (making a mockery of the idea that an ace is someone who managed to shoot down 5 plane). Also you typically start flying cold war plane and slowly work your way up to current day plane (and usually some future imaginary plane). Dogfighting in the game is all about dodging enemy missile while putting yourself in the right orientation so that your missile will contact the enemy. Your AI squamate are pretty much useless, so you have to do all the job. Mission variety is usually pretty good, with various objective that have to be done in mission and various twist (like not being allow to fly above a certain altitude in a canyon), even usually having a mission or two where you don't actually fight and must focus on quickly going trough some obstacle course. Game will usually have 15 to 25 missions lasting 15 to 30 minutes. Also all game features a few super weapon, think giant laser cannon or flying aircraft carrier.

Story wise the setting is a world called "strange real" that's different than the real world but also very similar, with "not USA", "not russia", "not germany" and "not europe" countries. Most story are about your protagonist country being invaded and slowly turning the tide of war, usually with some sort of conspiracy at play. The game takes themselves seriously but you can see that there's a bit of tongue in cheek from it. I think the dev are trying to to copy what an ultra patriotic military movie feel like when you're not so familiar with the country displayed (like how a Japanese person would perceive top gun like). Usually your main character goes from being a random nobody to being known as some sort of demi god pilot, they're silent protagonist, with there face never being shown in game and only ever referred to by there callsign.

For a quick run down of the available game in the main franchise.

Ace combat 4 (ps2) it sets in the aftermath of an meteor hit on the earth. One nation build a giant cannon to take out future meteor but then realize that it could be used for military purpose and use it to invade neighbor country. Most of the cutscene are in anime style drawing and focus on occupied civilian and there relationship with the ace fighters of the enemy nation, with your pilot only really being heard about from rumor the the enemy trade among each others. It's story is probably the most relevant to ace combat 7.

Ace combat 5 (PS2) is where I'd start playing the franchise if you don't mind older graphic. It's a well rounded game that's generally well regarded. It's about not russia invading not america and your squadron going from total newbie to great prominence and uncovering the real reason why the war started, think of it as a cold war going hot. Your squadron is front and center in most cutscene, with individual member being well developed and a large cast of supporting character. It's story is also pretty relevant to AC7.

Ace combat 0 (PS2) is sorta of a prequel to AC5, set in something very similar to WW2 (but in modern time and without any genocide) with not germany being front and center to the events. The story is actually told from the future point of view of a reporter digging for information about the war. Most of the cutscene are set as interview (live action) with aces you fought during the game and them reminiscing about the war and your pilot, it gives a pretty unique feel (https://youtu.be/nDajOvd01Ms?t=354). Depending on how you play the game (whether or not you shoot down non essential target) you get different cutscene.

Ace combat 6 (XBOX 360) is... disappointing. Like AC4 the story is mostly told from the point of view of occupied civilian, unlike it though the war is almost incidental to the story and your action in game are almost completely unrelated to the event in the cutscene. It mostly follow a stay at home mom and a couple of kid trapped in an old castle. Also because it was exclusive to the 360 it sold pretty badly in japan and probably won't be referenced in future game.

Ace combat 7 is pretty good but suffer from some pretty serious narrative problem. The story is about a former independent country trying to regain it's independence trough military might, it also feature space elevator and other future technology which make for some pretty cool set piece. The problem is that there's like 4 different stories hastily squish together which give some pretty serious tonal whiplash. It start pretty similar to most games, where you slowly turn the tide of war, before abruptly changing with your pilot being charged for a crime they didn't commit and being sent to a prison air base, where convict fly jet plane (it's as dumb as it sound). You do this for some time but then that part of the story is just dropped and you go back to typical storyline before the game once again change things. That's a big part of the reason why cutscene and story are very disconnected (the beginning cutscene is all about a character who is only relevant in the prison section of the story, so she's unrelated for the first couple of missions and almost disappear from the end before awkwardly coming back). Gameplay wise they did some nice refinement, plane have equipment that you can change which modify there stats and give them more weapon variety and there's a lot of optional objective that you can do on replay.

Also, never played it myself but ace combat 3 is very interesting. It's actually set in the far future with almost exclusively imaginary super plane and plenty of unique setting (with one of the mission being in space). It seems really interesting so a remake would be great, plus the soundtrack is great if your into electrosynth.

 

[Something Amyss]

Also, since there's at least 7 of these things(numbered ones, at least), does it matter where one starts or just grab one and see if I like it? Is there a continuing plot-line or something I need to be aware of(like Metal Gear) or are they all more or less self contained?

For the most part, the stories can be taken individually, so you can start wherever. You don't really need to know the ther stories to get involved in this one, bu they do happen in the same universe for the mot part.

This one seems harder than I remember the series being, and may not be the best place to start, I dunno. The missile spam is insane even on normal. I think I'm only in mission 6 or so and I kind of floundered out of the game because I kept timing out on the mission. I can't remember the last time I got a "Time's up" on one of these, but it may have been the very first game. I've never been a master at the games and I fully expect it to take me a few tries but this is a bit more extreme than prior games.

Or maybe I've just lost a step since the last release I played (6, skipping Assault Horizon and their F2P game). I know AC fans on YouTube are nerd raging at any reviewer who talks about the Difficulty, so maybe these games really always were Dark Souls and I just didn't realise how good I was at video games until now.

The feel of the games is often dramatic, but in that earnest sense that sort of makes it end up being campy. While there will be dramatic music and dire tones from your AWACS and wingmen, I'm always left with the feel of Top Gun if Top Gun had super weapons and death star runs to get to them.

You're mostly correct.So first, while it is titled "7", 1-3 aren't out in the west (a bastardized version of 3 was released in the west but it's like 1/4 of the game) and there was a "0" release after 5. Also there's ace combat assault horizon that's very different (it's set in the real world and feature helicopter segment) and a few off shoot on PSP and mobile.

I'm really surprised that 1-3 aren't out in the West, given I probably still have the original Air Combat and Ace Combat 2 discs, and Wikipedia confirms they were released to North America. Never played 3 b3cause I heard the release was buchered, but the other two exist in some form as well.

 

[meiam]

You're mostly correct.So first, while it is titled "7", 1-3 aren't out in the west (a bastardized version of 3 was released in the west but it's like 1/4 of the game) and there was a "0" release after 5. Also there's ace combat assault horizon that's very different (it's set in the real world and feature helicopter segment) and a few off shoot on PSP and mobile.

I'm really surprised that 1-3 aren't out in the West, given I probably still have the original Air Combat and Ace Combat 2 discs, and Wikipedia confirms they were released to North America. Never played 3 b3cause I heard the release was buchered, but the other two exist in some form as well.

My mistake, I was under the impression those were arcade cabinet game exclusive to japan for some reason.

Difficulty wise 7 might be harder because they introduced flare, where you can instantly lose a missile by just using flare before it hit you, to compensate for that the game increased the number of missile that fly your way. I can't say if 7 is harder than previous entry, I don't know if I'm good at the game but I've always completed most of them on hardest difficulty and did all the optional challenge and a few machine gun only run, so I'm probably more experience at them than your average player. A large part of the difficulty stems from knowing from the radar and alarm warning which missile you can ignore and which one you actually have to dodge.

 

[Gatx]

I think all games stand alone plot-wise. Ace Combat Zero is a prequel to 5, fleshing out some of it's backstory but you don't need to have played Zero before 5 or the other way around.

I don't think they're very CoD-like story-wise except Assault Horizon because the writing is very barebones and very Japanese.

I will say that while the games are not sims, they're not quite "arcade-y" either. Assault Horizon and 7 seem to offer a control option that lets it play like Rogue Squadron or Star Fox when it's off rails, so that's much more arcade. I don't believe anything before offers that. 5 as well had a mission where you had to fire a missile at a target so that it reached simultaneous with a missile shot by your CPU ally without any HUD help, you had a time the seconds until impact yourself. That's definitely verging on the hardcore.

Also while many Ace Combat fans will say skip Assault Horizon, I'd say it's still worth a look. It's seriously one of a kind, there is no other aerial combat game like it. It's like the Platinum Games version of dogfighting.

 

[skywolfblue]

I'm new to the series too. 7's story seems pretty well self-contained.

It is pretty arcady, planes have an absurd number of missiles, and it's impossible to deep stall.

It is truly a beautiful game. I am liking it a lot. Dogfighting in the middle of a thunderstorm is going to be one of those things I will remember for a long time! However, the difficulty is killing me, even though I selected easy mode.

This one seems harder than I remember the series being, and may not be the best place to start, I dunno. The missile spam is insane even on normal. I think I'm only in mission 6 or so and I kind of floundered out of the game because I kept timing out on the mission. I can't remember the last time I got a "Time's up" on one of these, but it may have been the very first game. I've never been a master at the games and I fully expect it to take me a few tries but this is a bit more extreme than prior games.

Same here, even though I am on easy. I wish that the game had more then one checkpoint per mission. To many times I've been one enemy truck away from victory before being taken out by a SAM, or lining up for the final target before the time runs out, then I have to re-do 15 minutes worth.

Around mission 12 (Stonehenge) the difficulty jumps through the roof. There were a few points at which I nearly threw the controller in ragequit.

The missile spam paired with the extremely short time limits is insane. On a lot of missions the timer is too short to allow you to actually engage with enemy fighters. I just had to keep evading the constant stream of missiles they sent my way, all while killing all the ground targets and bombers.

Oh, and allies are useless! This is particularly exacerbating on missions with allied ground forces. I had several almost perfect attempts at Mission 14 (Cape Rainy Assault) that failed because ONE enemy APC was left, and the ground guys called it quits. So rather then feeling like part of a team, it's really I have to destroy EVERYTHING. All the ground, all the air, all on a nigh-impossible timer.

I am at Mission 17 now.

I can't imagine how crazy it must be on normal.

 

[Something Amyss]

Same here, even though I am on easy. I wish that the game had more then one checkpoint per mission. To many times I've been one enemy truck away from victory before being taken out by a SAM, or lining up for the final target before the time runs out, then I have to re-do 15 minutes worth.

Around mission 12 (Stonehenge) the difficulty jumps through the roof. There were a few points at which I nearly threw the controller in ragequit.

The missile spam paired with the extremely short time limits is insane. On a lot of missions the timer is too short to allow you to actually engage with enemy fighters. I just had to keep evading the constant stream of missiles they sent my way, all while killing all the ground targets and bombers.

Oh, and allies are useless! This is particularly exacerbating on missions with allied ground forces. I had several almost perfect attempts at Mission 14 (Cape Rainy Assault) that failed because ONE enemy APC was left, and the ground guys called it quits. So rather then feeling like part of a team, it's really I have to destroy EVERYTHING. All the ground, all the air, all on a nigh-impossible timer.

I am at Mission 17 now.

I can't imagine how crazy it must be on normal.

Yeeeeah, I hate that "restart from checkpoint" almost always translates to "start over from the beginning, loser!" because my biggest crunch in gaming is avilable time, and replaying the same 15-20 minute battle several times is not my friend. I haven't had a lot of time where I could dedicate large chunks to gaming, either, so this is really putting me off.

And part of the kicker is I selected Normal because that's what I always do on AC games. Normal run, get a bunch of stuff, try it on harder difficulty if I'm feeling saucy. Even before I knew the difficulty of the game, I knew I wasn't going to plat because of the trophy for doing it on hard with S-Ranks, but I've never had this kind of difficulty on freaking normal. I think the worst I had it was the first couple of games where I wasn't as familiar with flying mechanics and would often slam into the ground or get tagged by a missile because I didn't have the skills to dodge.

 

[Squilookle]

Yeah but do any of them have a cheat that turn all the planes into piston engine fighters that don't use fire and forget missiles?

Because that's what pushes me away. The fact it's all jets.

 

[Hawki]

because the writing is very barebones and very Japanese.

Well, when most of the dialogue consists of "Missile. Missile. Missile," that's to be expected.

Because that's what pushes me away. The fact it's all jets.

Assault Horizon might be able to cater for you there, in that while most of the game consists of fighter combat, there's two helicopter sections, two door gunner sections, one AC-130 section, and one stealth bomber section.

 

[stroopwafel]

It is truly a beautiful game. I am liking it a lot. Dogfighting in the middle of a thunderstorm is going to be one of those things I will remember for a long time! However, the difficulty is killing me, even though I selected easy mode.

Yeah, that level is indeed very, very cool. I also like how the centrifugal forces of the storm feels like they are pushing your plane down as you navigate through huge mountain columns literally dodging lightning bolts. In general the weather effects seems to have more effect in AC7 with condense on the windows when flying through clouds or frost stalling the plane or lightning strikes jamming your instruments. It's awesome.

I haven't played every game in the series but definitely enjoyed the ones I did(ie Belkan War, Assault Horizon). Espescially AC7 is easy to get into but surprisingly deep when it comes to mission structure and enemy engagements. The one thing that this game has above all else is that there is really nothing else like it. The story never made much sense to me and seems to presuppose you have knowledge of the prior games(which doesn't make much sense considering the huge amount of time and different platforms between releases). But it doesn't really get in the way and it seems to have that same 'anti-war' message Metal Gear has, though without being overly self-serious/indulgent and with less military fetishising.

Definitely would recommend starting on 'easy' though. For most new time players this is already fairly challenging, espescially with some missions that are on a steep timer. But yeah, try the game out. They are great fun, extremely well made and we need more games like this that aren't tedious multiplayer lootbox fests!

 

[Prime_Hunter_H01]

Well I can say a lot here, i'll quote points I want to expand upon.

So what I gather is that it's very arcadey, so on the light side of the Flight Sim realism scale(if it's even considered a flight Sim)

In terms of how the planes fly it is almost a light sim, while you do not have to worry about minute stability adjustments but there is a momentum and drift to your movements that is fairly realistic. DCS F-5 feels similar to the F-5 in Ace Combat, the first time I played a Falcon sim I only had to get used to manually making minor adjustments and the top end ways you can send an F-16 in to a death spiral, other than that it was familiar due to using an F-16 in Ace Combat.

I notice most other games that try to copy its style have so much stability adjustment they feel like you are flying a magically levitating brick. In Ace Combat you are prevented from a complete death spiral but the game will not save you if you are too reckless.

As others have said, weapons and situation are where the arcade is most prevalent. You can carry over 100 missiles that can be used on planes and ground targets, and a special weapon which are air to air or air to ground exclusively, with a few exceptions. From Assault horizon on any air to ground weapons show their detonation radius on the ground.

I think the dev are trying to to copy what an ultra patriotic military movie feel like when you're not so familiar with the country displayed (like how a Japanese person would perceive top gun like).

Really only Assault Horizon took that route, the ones taking place in Strangereal(note that this is an external designation, not refrenced in game) from about 4 on they mostly feel like mech anime but in planes, specifically Gundam and other more "realistic" ones like that.

Even though you can draw parallels to real life (and they can be really on the nose) the over all world feels constructed well enough that it feels like a conflict that can happen compared to the often mocked east coast invasion from COD:MW2. It also makes the conspiracies more believable at least to me, then again I have followed this series since I was 6 years old and got Ace Combat 4 with my PS2.

Honestly if you are interested at all, go for it. Everyone here made good points, just need to add one more important thing...

PLAY ON EXPERT CONTROLS!

It may sound intimidating due to the word choice but Expert controls mean actual plane controls, roll & pitch, yaw. Even if you have some growing pains it will pay off since you can fully maneuver your plane.

And if you are worried about a point like this.

Yeah but do any of them have a cheat that turn all the planes into piston engine fighters that don't use fire and forget missiles?

Because that's what pushes me away. The fact it's all jets.

I am not sure of their experience with the series its self, but another part of Ace Combat's arcadey nature is that missiles are actually nerfed compared to how their real life counter parts perform. Good dogfighting skill is needed to allow your missiles to have a chance to hit. Special weapon long range missiles are barely BVR and still need skill to actually be effective. Fiction in general tends to really over sell how effective missiles are, an old joke I heard that tended to come from F-4 pilots in Vietnam, "They aren't called hittles."

Also all air craft have cannons, even if they would not have one in real life. So feel free to get in close and swiss cheese a plane.

 

[Dalisclock]

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. I think I will try the series out in the not too distant future. I just have to decide if I want to start with 7 or hunt down one of the PS2 games(6 was apparently XBOX 360 only and the PS2 ones should be reasonably easy to find). Between 4,5, Zero and 7, what's the recommendation?

 

[stroopwafel]

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. I think I will try the series out in the not too distant future. I just have to decide if I want to start with 7 or hunt down one of the PS2 games(6 was apparently XBOX 360 only and the PS2 ones should be reasonably easy to find). Between 4,5, Zero and 7, what's the recommendation?

I'd go with 7 since it's newest and the prettiest and besides you'll get AC5 remastered for freeeeeee!!

 

[Hawki]

I'd go with 7 since it's newest and the prettiest and besides you'll get AC5 remastered for freeeeeee!!

Isn't that only if you pre-ordered?

 

[stroopwafel]

I'd go with 7 since it's newest and the prettiest and besides you'll get AC5 remastered for freeeeeee!!

Isn't that only if you pre-ordered?

I don't think so? I bought AC7 about a week after release(wanted to play through RE2 first). Still came with AC5 but I didn't even know it was a bonus so it was a nice surprise.

 

[Worgen]

Yeah but do any of them have a cheat that turn all the planes into piston engine fighters that don't use fire and forget missiles?

Because that's what pushes me away. The fact it's all jets.

Have you checked out Warthunder? Its a more realistic air combat multiplayer game, but its also free and most of the air craft are ww2. There are also tanks in it and they just recently added ship combat also.

 

[ChupathingyX]

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. I think I will try the series out in the not too distant future. I just have to decide if I want to start with 7 or hunt down one of the PS2 games(6 was apparently XBOX 360 only and the PS2 ones should be reasonably easy to find). Between 4,5, Zero and 7, what's the recommendation?

I'd recommend playing all the PS2 games first. Not only are they the best in the series but you'll see how the series changed over the years and you'll understand all the little continuity references in 7.

 

[Something Amyss]

I can't really recommend any of the games for sure because it's been so long since I've played them. I still have a huge soft spot for 4, but if I played it again now, I might think it aged horribly or wonder what I was thinking at the time.

Still, that Megalith theme....