Activision Kills Long-Awaited King's Quest Fan Project

[Captain Blackout]

Activision and anyone else who takes this line is stealing from the people the opportunity to entertain each other when the people aren't stealing from Activision. If that's the standard they want to set, then ethics be damned, I will do whatever the fuck I want to Activision and they can suck it.

So in a nutshell, "Activision exercised their legal right to protect their IP and that makes me mad so now I'm going to steal some stuff."

That makes about as much sense as the assholes in Vancouver who "protested" the Olympics by throwing benches through store windows.

Hold on a moment, you've got a few holes in your summary. A couple of rather big ones.
#1: Legal right? A cease and desist letter does not constitute a legal right. What precisely are they protecting their IP from? If I go out an make a free parody of King's Quest, AND I have enough money to defend myself in court, they don't have a legal leg to stand on. The fact of the matter is that Activision is abusing the spirit of IP protection through the letter of the law, and most fans don't have the resources to defend themselves from cease and desist letters. I see it all the time. Just to raise the spectre of the worst offender, Tim Langdell anyone? If Activision, or anyone else for that matter *cough*Mr Chalk*cough* want to convince me that what Activision is doing isn't unethical, they are going to have to show me how fanfic, whether of a written story or of a game, actually substantively infringes on an IP that Activision isn't developing and got as a part of a bigger deal. It's all too easy to separate 'Silver Lining' from King's Quest if needed, and I'd like to see what place general game modders fit into this.

#2: There are no unalienable rights, there are only the rights we give ourselves. I made a philosophical decision a long time ago that those who make stealing from others (fans rights to entertain themselves in this case) a corporate art form are perfectly fair targets for me to steal from. I'm playing the game by the rules and standards they themselves have set. This isn't just 'stealing some stuff', this is a targeted decision. To use your analogy, I'm not throwing benches through random windows in Vancouver, I would be stealing tickets and giving them away for free.

#3: Piracy in this day and age is a fact. We can debate all we want about it, it still won't go away. If corporations do not want piracy, then it is up to them to set standards that reduce piracy, knowing it can not be completely contained. Furthermore 'attacking piracy' by punishing the actual buyers and fans of your products is contemptible. I look to raise the standards by trying to show pirates how to be better pirates: If we can't rid of them, maybe we can at least get them to contain themselves. Bobby Kotick could learn a lot from this stance but instead he's decided he wants to be gaming tech troll #2, right behind the spectre I invoked above. Sorry Bobby, but you deserve every bit of corporate grief you get.

EDIT:Actually, no, I'm not sorry Bobby. Quit your job and go back to development.

 

[Baby Tea]

Activision and anyone else who takes this line is stealing from the people the opportunity to entertain each other when the people aren't stealing from Activision. If that's the standard they want to set, then ethics be damned, I will do whatever the fuck I want to Activision and they can suck it.

So in a nutshell, "Activision exercised their legal right to protect their IP and that makes me mad so now I'm going to steal some stuff."

That makes about as much sense as the assholes in Vancouver who "protested" the Olympics by throwing benches through store windows.

Hold on a moment, you've got a few holes in your summary. A couple of rather big ones.
#1: Legal right? A cease and desist letter does not constitute a legal right. What precisely are they protecting their IP from? If I go out an make a free parody of King's Quest, AND I have enough money to defend myself in court, they don't have a legal leg to stand on. The fact of the matter is that Activision is abusing the spirit of IP protection through the letter of the law, and most fans don't have the resources to defend themselves from cease and desist letters. I see it all the time. Just to raise the spectre of the worst offender, Tim Langdell anyone? If Activision, or anyone else for that matter *cough*Mr Chalk*cough* want to convince me that what Activision is doing isn't unethical, they are going to have to show me how fanfic, whether of a written story or of a game, actually substantively infringes on an IP that Activision isn't developing and got as a part of a bigger deal. It's all too easy to separate 'Silver Lining' from King's Quest if needed, and I'd like to see what place general game modders fit into this.

The DO have every legal right, and you would be buried in court.
The fact is, they own the King's Quest IP. Whether you like it or not. While I'm annoyed for sure that they would stop something like this (I'm a huge KQ fan), it's entirely within their legal right. Whether or not their are developing the IP is totally irrelevant. It's the law, and it's the way it works, regardless of whether or not you, or I, or anyone else views it as 'ethical'. Ethics has nothing to do with it. It's copyright law.

#2: There are no unalienable rights, there are only the rights we give ourselves. I made a philosophical decision a long time ago that those who make stealing from others (fans rights to entertain themselves in this case) a corporate art form are perfectly fair targets for me to steal from. I'm playing the game by the rules and standards they themselves have set. This isn't just 'stealing some stuff', this is a targeted decision. To use your analogy, I'm not throwing benches through random windows in Vancouver, I would be stealing tickets and giving them away for free.

And you would be arrested. I would love to see a guy walk into court and say in his defense that his philosophy makes what he's doing OK. It wouldn't work, and it'd be off to jail with you. Activision isn't stealing anything. They are protecting their IP, and that action is protected by law. You know and I know that those who are making this game aren't a 'threat' to Activition or their IP, but that's totally irrelevant. They own it, and they can do with it as they please. That includes sitting on it and letting no-one else use it.

That's the way the copyright law works. Like it or not.

#3: Piracy in this day and age is a fact. We can debate all we want about it, it still won't go away. If corporations do not want piracy, then it is up to them to set standards that reduce piracy, knowing it can not be completely contained. Furthermore 'attacking piracy' by punishing the actual buyers and fans of your products is contemptible. I look to raise the standards by trying to show pirates how to be better pirates: If we can't rid of them, maybe we can at least get them to contain themselves. Bobby Kotick could learn a lot from this stance but instead he's decided he wants to be gaming tech troll #2, right behind the spectre I invoked above. Sorry Bobby, but you deserve every bit of corporate grief you get.

Piracy being a fact doesn't make it OK. Under any circumstances.
There isn't such a thing as 'noble piracy'. It's simply theft.
There are no 'standards' for piracy, and no 'better pirates'. It is what it is, and no matter how you gussy it up with self-righteous crusades and stick-it-to-the-man-isms, all you do is give more ammo to these guys to continue actions like this.
People say they can't trust developers or publishers?
Well they can't trust the customers.

One dick move doesn't open the door for another. You know what that's like?
"But Mom! Jimmy hit me first!"

It's time to grow up.

 

[Bobby_C]

If I go out an make a free parody of King's Quest, AND I have enough money to defend myself in court, they don't have a legal leg to stand on.

No, see, that'd work because parody falls under fair use. But TSL wasn't a King's Quest parody, it was one more King's Quest, only by fans, and presented as such. In legal terms it was derivative, not transformative, and so in that respect didn't qualify for fair use.

 

[Captain Blackout]

*snip*

Parodies ARE legally protected, getting arrested is a noble act at times, it's called civil disobedience, you can never trust the customers get over it, welcome to the real world where your ideals aren't worth a damn. I made a decision that IP rules DON'T apply when the RIAA broke the first amendment and silenced college professors over CSS, simply because the college professors didn't have the resources to defend themselves. I AM a self-justified pirate: When the system favors money over justice, only pirates will get justice.

You grow up, and please leave subtle comments about my maturity out of this if you're going to call yourself a red guard.

 

[Captain Blackout]

If I go out an make a free parody of King's Quest, AND I have enough money to defend myself in court, they don't have a legal leg to stand on.

No, see, that'd work because parody falls under fair use. But TSL wasn't a King's Quest parody, it was one more King's Quest, only by fans, and presented as such. In legal terms it was derivative, not transformative, and so in that respect didn't qualify for fair use.

Yes, I get that. I was showing a progression of fully protected to minimally protected works to make a greater point.

There's a reason I'm a card carrying member of the pirate party: IP laws are broken and I'm ignoring them until they get fixed.

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

Another shining example of how intellectual monopoly laws are promoting the progress of science and the useful arts by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries.

further reading:

[link]http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/against.htm[/link]

 

[chronobreak]

I don't see what's to stop them from secretly completing the game, and it leaking out to the net. I mean, if they could make it so there was no proof that they themselves completed and leaked it. It is the internet after all, and things just have a way of happening.

 

[Captain Blackout]

I don't see what's to stop them from secretly completing the game, and it leaking out to the net. I mean, if they could make it so there was no proof that they themselves completed and leaked it. It is the internet after all, and things just have a way of happening.

At this point, they'd be suspect #1. What needs to happen is folks who want to make fan version need to stay silent from start to finish. The only problem is that we all have egos, and very few have what it takes to stay silent...

 

[Baby Tea]

*snip*

Parodies ARE legally protected, getting arrested is a noble act at times, it's called civil disobedience, you can never trust the customers get over it, welcome to the real world where your ideals aren't worth a damn.

Coming from a guy who is railing 'against the man'.
Ironic.

I made a decision that IP rules DON'T apply when the RIAA broke the first amendment and silenced college professors over CSS, simply because the college professors didn't have the resources to defend themselves. I AM a self-justified pirate: When the system favors money over justice, only pirates will get justice.

Oh well if you made the decision then it's ok.
Self-justified pirate? That's totally ok too, then.
Nevermind that most of those behind bars, if asked, felt they were right in whatever they did.
It's a good thing the courts don't work on self-justification.

I also liked the 'fight for justice' line. It almost makes it seem like you're some sort of freedom fighter, out to right the wrongs of the big evil corporations! Too bad piracy is just theft, and not so poetic. But at least you can dress it up that way, right? Whatever nets that self justification!

You grow up

I'll admit it, I laughed.
"You stop!"
"No, you stop!"

Classic.

and please leave subtle comments about my maturity out of this if you're going to call yourself a red guard.

Oh, I'm not saying you're immature. I'm saying the whole idea of piracy being this big noble cause is immature, and a farce. It's a convenient excuse to steal what you want, plain and simple. You know what would send a bigger message to Activition? If nobody bought their games, and if nobody stole them either. Then what would they have to stand on? Nobody bought it, but nobody stole it either! They'd be without excuses, and they'd have to change.

But nobody gets anything for free that way, so forget it, right?
Yeah, it's only worth fighting for if you get something for it. Like free games.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

And they wonder why I refuse to give up piracy, the asshats...

What does that have to do with this?

I do find it odd that Activision would feel the need to shut down this fan project, after all it's not as though they were claiming any of the copyrighted material as their own, nor were they making any money off of it as far as I know. However I can't really condemn them for doing it, because they are within their rights to do it.
In light of this and the news of Publishers shutting down other fan projects, I would think that fans would take a hint and check with Publishers and copyright holders BEFORE starting these fan projects so they don't find themselves in these situations.

 

[Captain Blackout]

*snip*

/facepalm
You have no clue what you're really talking about.
Do you know how many free games I've actually gotten in the last 5 years? No?
I present a philosophical defense of piracy because I honestly believe it has a place in our world. After seriously studying computer ethics in college and afterwards, I was thoroughly convinced only pirates have a real chance at justice.
I will admit, I had my day stealing digital media for my own purposes. Those days are long past me. The last time I pirated something, it wasn't for me.

I agree, people shouldn't buy from Activision. I know I don't. I also know they're never going out of business because of my boycotting them.

There are rules for those who decide to live outside the law. Those who don't follow those rules are the ones that end up in jail the fastest. Then again, I didn't learn how to be a pirate from someone in jail, I learned from someone who never got caught or jailed because he followed the rules.

The rules for those who live outside the law aren't stupid and arbitrary, something completely different from the current IP laws in the US.

When I was stealing for kicks, I didn't bother with excuses. When I quit, I still didn't bother with excuses. I took an honest look at who and what I was, and decided I was better than some punk trolling the net for jaurez sites. I'm a pirate, and always will be even if only for philosophical reasons. That not making excuses for free games, that is being honest with oneself.

I'm not surprised you take the stance you do. I've noticed you have a hard time with perspectives that are radically different than yours.

I am surprised at the borderline trolling (telling someone to grow up IS calling their maturity into question) from someone who should be above that sort of thing.

We have different views. So be it. You have the last comment, I'm done discussing this with you until you decide I'm worth more respect than you've shown so far.

 

[Captain Blackout]

And they wonder why I refuse to give up piracy, the asshats...

What does that have to do with this?

I do find it odd that Activision would feel the need to shut down this fan project, after all it's not as though they were claiming any of the copyrighted material as their own, nor were they making any money off of it as far as I know. However I can't really condemn them for doing it, because they are within their rights to do it.
In light of this and the news of Publishers shutting down other fan projects, I would think that fans would take a hint and check with Publishers and copyright holders BEFORE starting these fan projects so they don't find themselves in these situations.

Um, you should read the thread. The discussion about my piracy, and how this project started BEFORE Activision was ever involved in any way has already been covered. A bunch.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

And they wonder why I refuse to give up piracy, the asshats...

What does that have to do with this?

I do find it odd that Activision would feel the need to shut down this fan project, after all it's not as though they were claiming any of the copyrighted material as their own, nor were they making any money off of it as far as I know. However I can't really condemn them for doing it, because they are within their rights to do it.
In light of this and the news of Publishers shutting down other fan projects, I would think that fans would take a hint and check with Publishers and copyright holders BEFORE starting these fan projects so they don't find themselves in these situations.

Um, you should read the thread. The discussion about my piracy, and how this project started BEFORE Activision was ever involved in any way has already been covered. A bunch.

I was talking about fan projects in general, not specifically this one. Even in this case, they should've gone to Vivendi and worked something out before they even got started. Of course that wouldn't have guaranteed that Activision wouldn't have still come in an stomped all over it. Of course I think then they could've fought it, not sure though. Regardless, my point is that makers of these fan projects, should work out an agreement with the these Publishers BEFORE even getting started instead of assuming that they'll just be ignored. This case was rather unusual, but my point stands.

 

[Captain Blackout]

And they wonder why I refuse to give up piracy, the asshats...

What does that have to do with this?

I do find it odd that Activision would feel the need to shut down this fan project, after all it's not as though they were claiming any of the copyrighted material as their own, nor were they making any money off of it as far as I know. However I can't really condemn them for doing it, because they are within their rights to do it.
In light of this and the news of Publishers shutting down other fan projects, I would think that fans would take a hint and check with Publishers and copyright holders BEFORE starting these fan projects so they don't find themselves in these situations.

Um, you should read the thread. The discussion about my piracy, and how this project started BEFORE Activision was ever involved in any way has already been covered. A bunch.

I was talking about fan projects in general, not specifically this one. Even in this case, they should've gone to Vivendi and worked something out before they even got started. Of course that wouldn't have guaranteed that Activision wouldn't have still come in an stomped all over it. Of course I think then they could've fought it, not sure though. Regardless, my point is that makers of these fan projects, should work out an agreement with the these Publishers BEFORE even getting started instead of assuming that they'll just be ignored. This case was rather unusual, but my point stands.

I suspect many fans will start checking. I also suspect that when the Silver Lining project was started the group working on it didn't know what was coming. I think they did go to Vivendi at one point, but Activision didn't have to honour anything the Silver Lining group had going with Vivendi. Then again, this is mostly speculation based on what I've seen here and elsewhere.

Anyway, I'm all for boycotting Activision into non-existence, or at least until Kotick steps down. Too bad boycotts never work anymore.

Maybe a better solution is for groups like the Silver Lining group to check first, like you said, then if they don't get permission find a company that will give them permission. These guys are dedicated, and fan works ultimately serve to help the original works. When Valve starts making extra money from fan works, maybe they'll take out Activision on the corporate level.

And maybe folks will quit trying to start near and outright flame wars with me (not you, see thread for example) for my advocacy of philosophical piracy. Something tells me I'm dreaming in both cases.

 

[netsirk]

There is a petition available for fans and supporters of The Silver Lining at http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/savetsl/

 

[Pendragon9]

Just for that, I'm pirating more. You jerks.

 

[Strategia]

I'll have to take a plane, so I can only reasonably bring unlit torches, so if someone Stateside could provide the lighters and pitchforks (and perhaps hand grenades for extra fun), this lynch mob is a go.

 

[Doth]

Activision and anyone else who takes this line is stealing from the people the opportunity to entertain each other when the people aren't stealing from Activision. If that's the standard they want to set, then ethics be damned, I will do whatever the fuck I want to Activision and they can suck it.

So in a nutshell, "Activision exercised their legal right to protect their IP and that makes me mad so now I'm going to steal some stuff."

That makes about as much sense as the assholes in Vancouver who "protested" the Olympics by throwing benches through store windows.

Actually, in a nutshell, "Activision abused their legal rights to protect their IP so now I'm going to abuse their copyrights."

Law favours the former, ethics the other.

In a nutshell, "Activision are assholes, as am I."

 

[Altorin]

Whats with publishers shutting down fan projects, who's makers have put a good chunk of their lives into it, right before release?

Because most of these kind of projects going belly up on their own. So rather than get loads of bad press for each and every one, they simply let nature run it's coarse and come down on the ones getting close to a release. This is why we almost always hear about Cease and Desist at the last moment.

the opposite of what they intend happens though.

If they were intending to be strict on their IPs (which I fully believe they have the right to do, it's their IP), then they should do it as soon as they get sniff about a project. It's a real dick move to wait until a group of people put 8 years into their project before pulling the plug.. although in this case, I'm not sure about the timing.. Vivendi gave the project a tenative pass, but when they acquired Activision they gave the rights to them, and then Activision pulled the plug.

It wasn't their plug to pull until a short time ago, so I'll give Activision a pass on it this time, but if they get a sniff someone's using their IP and want to snuff it out, I hope that they save everyone a lot of time and just do it early. I think it'll lead to better press if the company isn't jerking its fans around.

Anyway, at least this one they didn't send orders that all the work be destroyed.. just brought offline... They can still collaborate enough offline to make it not legally actionable... it would be difficult perhaps, but not impossible... If they haven't been able to make the project themselves from the ground up over the past 8 years, then they shouldn't have bothered in the first place... 8 years in, they should know what's theirs (and no doubt there is plenty that doesn't belong to activision in the project), what they can keep, what they can't, and can move on.