Advice for Shadowrun 5e

[Jitters Caffeine]

My friends and I have recently decided to break out something a little different to our usual Pathfinder games. I suggested Shadowrun since I'm a bit of a sucker for alternate Earth settings, and because I REALLY wasn't feeling up to learning Vamipire: The Masquerade. But in my research before my books have showed up, I've found people complaining that SR5e has a bit of a formatting problem. Important information and references to mechanics are introduced hundreds of pages BEFORE they're actually explained in the book.

So I was curious if there was anyone familiar with the game who could give me some advice for some solid "default' cyberware choices that most characters should get, and what attributes I should focus on in character creation. It would help when I'm attempting to actually learn the system if I could save my brain power a little.

 

[FalloutJack]

My friends and I have recently decided to break out something a little different to our usual Pathfinder games. I suggested Shadowrun since I'm a bit of a sucker for alternate Earth settings, and because I REALLY wasn't feeling up to learning Vamipire: The Masquerade. But in my research before my books have showed up, I've found people complaining that SR5e has a bit of a formatting problem. Important information and references to mechanics are introduced hundreds of pages BEFORE they're actually explained in the book.

So I was curious if there was anyone familiar with the game who could give me some advice for some solid "default' cyberware choices that most characters should get, and what attributes I should focus on in character creation. It would help when I'm attempting to actually learn the system if I could save my brain power a little.

Well, as you might hear from a number of people, half the fun of building a Shadowrun character is all the stuff that you can put into it. Even way back in the early days, this was true, and it remains so even now. So, I'm familiar with Shadowrun 5th, and in fact have played since 3rd Edition, so since nobody else here seems keen on some information, I guess that's all for me, then.

Your character's augmentations and better attributes should, of course, follow whatever it is you want them to be doing. For instance, your die-hard close-to-melee Street Samurai should have the Quickness to get to the opponent faster and react, and the Strength to cut him in half, plus the Body to soak up any incoming crap wouldn't hurt. Your mage/shaman/mystic should be focusing on should be focusing more on your actual Magic attribute, of course, and whatever the spells require of you to get into levels. Take note that Cyberware takes up Essence and therefore is a hinderance to magic. Your upward maximum for spells and such is lower, spirits and totems don't exactly like it, and it has some sort of effect on your aura on the whole. This doesn't stop people from DOING that, but it's a point to make.

Those who like to soak up damage and become a tank should - regardless of WHAT race you choose, though the soakiest is the troll and other large bodies - invest in Bone Lacing. Those who want faster reflexes should have Wired Reflexes. Just about anybody with a gun should make use of guns with smarklinks, which work best with smartlink implants (although the goggles aren't so bad). Naturally, every decker/haacker needs a datajack implant, but should also go for some other mental implants. Those who wish to know something about combat or negotiation or other bits of information that character creation points couldn't fill to your heart's content will want to have chip implants, cranial implants that immediately give you the information as though you learned it yourself.

Most GMs will tell you that, in terms of starting equipment and everything else, to give them free reign over Availability 12 and below, preferring not to give them 12R because that's Rare, unless you feel it's worth it. This give you a reasonable starter of ideas?

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

Well, as you might hear from a number of people, half the fun of building a Shadowrun character is all the stuff that you can put into it. Even way back in the early days, this was true, and it remains so even now. So, I'm familiar with Shadowrun 5th, and in fact have played since 3rd Edition, so since nobody else here seems keen on some information, I guess that's all for me, then.

Your character's augmentations and better attributes should, of course, follow whatever it is you want them to be doing. For instance, your die-hard close-to-melee Street Samurai should have the Quickness to get to the opponent faster and react, and the Strength to cut him in half, plus the Body to soak up any incoming crap wouldn't hurt. Your mage/shaman/mystic should be focusing on should be focusing more on your actual Magic attribute, of course, and whatever the spells require of you to get into levels. Take note that Cyberware takes up Essence and therefore is a hinderance to magic. Your upward maximum for spells and such is lower, spirits and totems don't exactly like it, and it has some sort of effect on your aura on the whole. This doesn't stop people from DOING that, but it's a point to make.

Those who like to soak up damage and become a tank should - regardless of WHAT race you choose, though the soakiest is the troll and other large bodies - invest in Bone Lacing. Those who want faster reflexes should have Wired Reflexes. Just about anybody with a gun should make use of guns with smarklinks, which work best with smartlink implants (although the goggles aren't so bad). Naturally, every decker/haacker needs a datajack implant, but should also go for some other mental implants. Those who wish to know something about combat or negotiation or other bits of information that character creation points couldn't fill to your heart's content will want to have chip implants, cranial implants that immediately give you the information as though you learned it yourself.

Most GMs will tell you that, in terms of starting equipment and everything else, to give them free reign over Availability 12 and below, preferring not to give them 12R because that's Rare, unless you feel it's worth it. This give you a reasonable starter of ideas?

That's all very helpful, thank you. But I have a couple questions about the priority character creation system. There's a lot of numbers in parenthesis that I can't seem to find explanations for. Probably my own fault for trying to get started before my books actually arrive. Does having a high magic priority mean you start with 6 magic? Or does that mean you have a cap of 6 magic to put attribute points into?

 

[FalloutJack]

That's all very helpful, thank you. But I have a couple questions about the priority character creation system. There's a lot of numbers in parenthesis that I can't seem to find explanations for. Probably my own fault for trying to get started before my books actually arrive. Does having a high magic priority mean you start with 6 magic? Or does that mean you have a cap of 6 magic to put attribute points into?

The priorities table is a quicker and more streamlined means of creating characters. According to the table that I have on my packet, yes, a higher magic priority will net you more for the attribute than a lower one. Handling that first because that's the simpler of the two questions. Find the priority table in Character Creation or print off a copy from the site is my advice, apart from more reading, on that front.

Parenthesis nearby stuff depends on what it is. A number in one next to another number usually means 'This is that attribute/skill/whatever number after enhancements like cyberware/magic/armor/etc. For instance, the ability to hit a target with a gun which supports a Smartlink will have a number regarding its accuracy and a number regarding its accuracy plus the enhancement done by the Smartlink if engaged.

 

[Thurston]

Myself and my group found Lone Wolf Studios Herolab software to be invaluable. You have to pay to get the licenced Shadowrun module, but it is invaluable for faster character creation, and it does a lot of in-game stuff automatically, including tracking ammo and recoil, drones, vehicles, and wound penalties. For the GM, the encounter builder is useful and the combat initiative tracker is great.

http://www.wolflair.com/index.php?context=hero_lab&page=shadowrun

In addition, you can find dozens of pre-made characters on internet sites in the Herolab format.

 

[DarthCoercis]

Try Chummer, it's a free character gen & tracking tool for Shadowrun 5e.

https://github.com/chummer5a/chummer5a


Edit: That said, I honestly think 2nd ed was the best edition of Shadowrun, followed by 4th ed. If you can find a collection of books for cheap, get them. 5e is a mess, and 3rd ed was garbage.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

Shadowrun 5e has a TERRIBLE formatting problem, yes. Most of the expansion books don't have indexes, even though they're crucial for RPG books for obvious reasons. Basically they seem to be built around the idea of you having electronic copies and being able to ctrl-f everything.

It's also really fragging complicated, as our group found out, although apparently less complicated than previous editions somehow. Mostly because there's a separate rules system for magic, for decking, for rigging... This is exacerbated by the poor layout which meant that it took us ten sessions before we started to really get the hang of things.

As for cyberware/bioware, it's like FalloutJack says; it mostly depends on character type. In general though, mages and adepts don't want or need any, although if you're getting really min-maxy you can probably get a bit in there. Street Samurais are generally up to the gills in the stuff, while riggers and deckers generally only have a few choice pieces that help in their job (riggers need a rigger interface to actually, y'know, rig for instance). Faces generally only have a few high-class items as well, like tailored pheromones, since they want to keep their essence score nice and high but some items can be reeeeeally useful.

If we're talking fluff-wise though, then the most common items for normal people are things like datajacks and cyber-eyes, although cyber-eyes are gradually becoming less popular as bioware becomes cheaper and more widely available. Normal people don't go in for getting significant muscle groups replaced by machinery, and they certainly don't get wired reflexes or overpowered cyberlimbs. If you start going for those, you're pretty explicitly labeling yourself as a badass. Although hey, if you're a Shadowrunner, that's probably what you're going for.

But most importantly, I'm going to agree with the people above who recommend Chummer and Herolab; both of those really help for rolling up characters for the first time, as they help let you know what you can and can't do, and what dice pools you're getting.

 

[Erttheking]

I've never played a game, but I own the source book so I'll give some general advice from what I've read and from my limited experience as a GM

The combat system gave me a headache just by looking at it, it's so freaking complicated, so a minor suggestion. Unless you're in the middle of a fight that you want to be an intense and drawn out fight, make it so that if your players hit something, it dies. Second of all, NPCs that aren't copy pasted formula have to be built from the ground up and go through the same process as player characters, and that gives me head aches based on what I had to go through to build one character for fun. So use that sparingly and preferably just go with one uber powerful guy who can take on the whole team solo to save yourself some busywork (there are stats for how you should scale based on how tough you want them to be. Also I'd say ignore the number system when it comes to contacts and just RP that part out.

Also remember rule zero. The GM is always right. Simplify rules when it makes life easier.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

My friends and I have recently decided to break out something a little different to our usual Pathfinder games. I suggested Shadowrun since I'm a bit of a sucker for alternate Earth settings, and because I REALLY wasn't feeling up to learning Vamipire: The Masquerade. But in my research before my books have showed up, I've found people complaining that SR5e has a bit of a formatting problem. Important information and references to mechanics are introduced hundreds of pages BEFORE they're actually explained in the book.

So I was curious if there was anyone familiar with the game who could give me some advice for some solid "default' cyberware choices that most characters should get, and what attributes I should focus on in character creation. It would help when I'm attempting to actually learn the system if I could save my brain power a little.

We ran a bit of Shadowrun last year...or more specifically I did, as I wanted to GM something and I always loved the Shadowrun universe. I've been playing pen and paper since I was a teen, and I've been playing GAMES since I was a kid. I love game systems, and I think I'm definitely above average in terms of my ability to understand them and break them down.

I found it to be a fucking HEADACHE AND A HALF to navigate. The book is gorgeous, but poorly laid out. And the game systems are either needlessly complex or poorly explained. I must have read the sections on decking a half dozen times and I still don't really understand them. As a GM you can half-ass the rules as much as you want to keep the narrative moving, but constantly half-assing rules is a bit annoying for me, I do like some structural integrity in my games. I'd take full advantage of the programs noted above to speed things up, because calculating dice pools (particularly in combat) can get extraordinarily boggy. Shadowrun is a very bloated, "crunchy" game. It has spectacular depth and complexity, but at the cost of ease of play and understanding.

I ended up transitioning into Edge of the Empire, the new Star Wars series from Fantasy Flight, and our group enjoyed it significantly more. Somewhat similar tonally to Shadowrun, but with much leaner/cleaner game play that feeds directly into GM spontaneity rather than requiring it as a band-aid. If your group are game-system fanatics who love crunching numbers and having slow, stat-based sessions, Shadowrun is an excellent choice. If they like more narrative based experiences with a higher focus on role-playing, I'd give EotE a whirl. Takes way less effort to GM, and is more immediately transparent to players without being "shallow" or unsatisfying.

 

[DarthCoercis]

*snip*

All the more reason I suggest picking up copies of 2nd edition. It's easy to understand and run, and every book is well organised and laid out.

Later editions are really a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

All the more reason I suggest picking up copies of 2nd edition. It's easy to understand and run, and every book is well organised and laid out.

Later editions are really a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth.

Interesting. I know the GF fell in love with Shadowrun a long time ago, I wonder if that was around the time of 2nd edition. I always had a preference for 2nd edition AD&D too.

Clearly the 2nd editions of things is where it's at.

 

[Silence]

I've never played a game, but I own the source book so I'll give some general advice from what I've read and from my limited experience as a GM

The combat system gave me a headache just by looking at it, it's so freaking complicated, so a minor suggestion. Unless you're in the middle of a fight that you want to be an intense and drawn out fight, make it so that if your players hit something, it dies. Second of all, NPCs that aren't copy pasted formula have to be built from the ground up and go through the same process as player characters, and that gives me head aches based on what I had to go through to build one character for fun. So use that sparingly and preferably just go with one uber powerful guy who can take on the whole team solo to save yourself some busywork (there are stats for how you should scale based on how tough you want them to be. Also I'd say ignore the number system when it comes to contacts and just RP that part out.

Also remember rule zero. The GM is always right. Simplify rules when it makes life easier.

Actually no, the combat system, as it is, is super fun. Possibly the best part of the whole system. And you have balanced fights, not Starship Troopers.

That said, it is complicated. I would recommend starting with basic things (keep weapon modi on the backdrop for now, ignore ammunition (you don't really run out in one fight anyways), and slowly advance.

But don't do "hit - die" thing, that's just not good. Especially you can do things like have someone fall unconscious, but not die - then bring them with you and interrogate them - all because you jus did mental, no physical damage, because of the armour.

 

[Erttheking]

I've never played a game, but I own the source book so I'll give some general advice from what I've read and from my limited experience as a GM

The combat system gave me a headache just by looking at it, it's so freaking complicated, so a minor suggestion. Unless you're in the middle of a fight that you want to be an intense and drawn out fight, make it so that if your players hit something, it dies. Second of all, NPCs that aren't copy pasted formula have to be built from the ground up and go through the same process as player characters, and that gives me head aches based on what I had to go through to build one character for fun. So use that sparingly and preferably just go with one uber powerful guy who can take on the whole team solo to save yourself some busywork (there are stats for how you should scale based on how tough you want them to be. Also I'd say ignore the number system when it comes to contacts and just RP that part out.

Also remember rule zero. The GM is always right. Simplify rules when it makes life easier.

Actually no, the combat system, as it is, is super fun. Possibly the best part of the whole system. And you have balanced fights, not Starship Troopers.

That said, it is complicated. I would recommend starting with basic things (keep weapon modi on the backdrop for now, ignore ammunition (you don't really run out in one fight anyways), and slowly advance.

But don't do "hit - die" thing, that's just not good. Especially you can do things like have someone fall unconscious, but not die - then bring them with you and interrogate them - all because you jus did mental, no physical damage, because of the armour.

I was going more along the lines of filler encounters, like a couple of guys start shooting and you don't want to spend half an hour fighting, but ok. Honestly I just got turned off by how clogged everything in this edition was. I'm going to take the advice being given and check out 2nd ed instead.

 

[Silence]

I've never played a game, but I own the source book so I'll give some general advice from what I've read and from my limited experience as a GM

The combat system gave me a headache just by looking at it, it's so freaking complicated, so a minor suggestion. Unless you're in the middle of a fight that you want to be an intense and drawn out fight, make it so that if your players hit something, it dies. Second of all, NPCs that aren't copy pasted formula have to be built from the ground up and go through the same process as player characters, and that gives me head aches based on what I had to go through to build one character for fun. So use that sparingly and preferably just go with one uber powerful guy who can take on the whole team solo to save yourself some busywork (there are stats for how you should scale based on how tough you want them to be. Also I'd say ignore the number system when it comes to contacts and just RP that part out.

Also remember rule zero. The GM is always right. Simplify rules when it makes life easier.

Actually no, the combat system, as it is, is super fun. Possibly the best part of the whole system. And you have balanced fights, not Starship Troopers.

That said, it is complicated. I would recommend starting with basic things (keep weapon modi on the backdrop for now, ignore ammunition (you don't really run out in one fight anyways), and slowly advance.

But don't do "hit - die" thing, that's just not good. Especially you can do things like have someone fall unconscious, but not die - then bring them with you and interrogate them - all because you jus did mental, no physical damage, because of the armour.

I was going more along the lines of filler encounters, like a couple of guys start shooting and you don't want to spend half an hour fighting, but ok. Honestly I just got turned off by how clogged everything in this edition was. I'm going to take the advice being given and check out 2nd ed instead.

Filler encounters don't even make sense in this system. Usually you plan a run, then do it - and you have to think in terms of realism, the most effective plan is stealth, until you get to the target. Then, you fight. One, or maybe two encounters, big ones, per run.

You really can't have 'filler encounters' if you basically walk through a city usually. I mean, in the case of deckers, you can't even really do random encounters: If you are in the middle of a run, and hack for too long, you get completely kicked out of the system.

It's not DnD, where you meet a bunch of orcs on the street (I mean, you can do that too, but usually you just talk to them, unless they are the target of a run). You also usually have a base, and don't wander around.

That said, the book is really confusing in some places. Can't blame anyone who is put off it. And ... more than one book is pretty much required. In the 'how many books' department it's a big system, like DnD.

 

[DarthCoercis]

You really can't have 'filler encounters' if you basically walk through a city usually. I mean, in the case of deckers, you can't even really do random encounters: If you are in the middle of a run, and hack for too long, you get completely kicked out of the system.

What, you've never had a GM pull out the old "drunken, belligerent thug/rival runner/corp soldier" encounter? Never screwed up a social roll trying to get info and caused a fight? Never pissed off a Mr. Johnson? Never lost control of an elemental or spirit? Never had a paranormal beast randomly ruin your day? Just because you're in the middle of a run doesn't mean the GM can't throw a random encounter or two in.

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OP: 2nd ed really is great. Aside from the core book, I'd recommend getting the Street Samurai Catalogue, the Grimoire, Virtual Realities 2.0, Rigger 2, Shadowtech and the Shadowrun Companion: Beyond the Shadows.

If you're going to be GM, then I also recommend the GM Screen, Paranormal Animals of North America, Corporate Shadowfiles, Underworld Sourcebook and for a fun, twisted campaign setting and a bunch of cool stuff, my two favourite books - Bug City and Target: UCAS.

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Interesting. I know the GF fell in love with Shadowrun a long time ago, I wonder if that was around the time of 2nd edition. I always had a preference for 2nd edition AD&D too.

Clearly the 2nd editions of things is where it's at.

2nd edition was brought out in the early 90s, 3rd ed was late 90s. The beauty of FASA's original books as that a lot of them are interchangeable through editions. Some 1st ed books still work perfectly well with 3rd ed books. The 2nd ed core rulebook is definitely the best of the 3 FASA editions, but each edition had some great supplemental books.

EDIT: For a really fun read, pick up Target: Awakened Lands. It's all about Australia and how badly it got fucked by the Awakening.

 

[Silence]

You really can't have 'filler encounters' if you basically walk through a city usually. I mean, in the case of deckers, you can't even really do random encounters: If you are in the middle of a run, and hack for too long, you get completely kicked out of the system.

What, you've never had a GM pull out the old "drunken, belligerent thug/rival runner/corp soldier" encounter? Never screwed up a social roll trying to get info and caused a fight? Never pissed off a Mr. Johnson? Never lost control of an elemental or spirit? Never had a paranormal beast randomly ruin your day? Just because you're in the middle of a run doesn't mean the GM can't throw a random encounter or two in.

... I take back what I said. Apart from the first example, which I meant: Usually it's stupid and pointless, even in DnD, where it is common.

As for the other examples: Yeah, they can happen, but in all these cases a "one hit kill" is stupid. Social Roll - well, you need the info, and having them dead - or not even punished for screwing up the roll - meh.
And paranormal beasts really should not die in one hit.

 

[DarthCoercis]

As for the other examples: Yeah, they can happen, but in all these cases a "one hit kill" is stupid. Social Roll - well, you need the info, and having them dead - or not even punished for screwing up the roll - meh.
And paranormal beasts really should not die in one hit.

Well, yeah, 99.9999999999999999999% of paranormal animals won't die to panther assault cannon shot in the face, but a lot of humanoids can and do die from one hit. Wired reflexes or dermal armour aren't going to save someone who takes a deadly mind blast, and no amount of magical shields are going to save an elf from a cyberknife to the face.

Heck, a gang of drugged up junkies taking issue with the 'Runners moving through "their" territory would make for decent a throw-away random combat encounter to introduce the combat system to newbies. Most of them will die to a fireball or grenade, or a bullet or two, as it's highly unlikely they'll have any kind of cyber/biotech and drugs are really bad for any kind of magical adept. They pose just enough threat to the 'Runners to be a fun encounter, but would be able to be dealt with rather quickly.