After getting and watching Force Awakens again...

[ThatOtherGirl]

People find reasons to hate Rey. If people hated Rey for the character she actually is then I could understand that. I even agree she is the least interesting of the new 3 so far. But they don't. They invent reasons to hate her. They ignore the actual movie, preferring instead to just make shit up about her so they can hate her more. And there are only two reasons I can think of for this: It is a new Star Wars movie and nerds will be nerds and hate new things or people will be sexist bastards and hate it when women get the spotlight.

Here's the thing, this right here, is what I'm talking about when it comes to people not taking "I don't like her" as reason enough. It's always you're either a fanboy(been called that when I routinely fall asleep watching through every movie in the series and honestly have only ever been interested in the ancient history of the setting that's now largely been rendered moot), or you just don't like women in leading hero roles(which could be true if you look at it a certain considering there's very few hero women that are actually done competently).

Neither of which contribute to much other than that point-scoring bullshit I mentioned. People have different tastes and standards, and those are largely being thrown out the window as legitimate because, as you said, "people aren't willing to accept women as heroes". And that mindset is limiting as all fuck.

My problem is not with people who don't like Rey. Rey has problems, the movie has legitimate issues. I disagree with neither of these statements, my best friend actually hates the movie and I think that is a completely legitimate position. But he doesn't have to make shit up to justify not liking the movie. He talks about actual issues in the actual movie.

I said my problem is with people who make shit up to hate Rey. Can you give me another reason they would go to such great lengths to hate on a character besides being unreasonable fans or sexist?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Because the First Order are likely an opposing legitimate government and the New Republic have hampered themselves with a stupid de-militerisation act. Which was very liberal of them. And very silly.

To be fair to the NGR, there had just been a galaxy spanning civil war that had raged for decades, following a previous war that had raged for years. Billions of lives had been lost. I imagine there was a rather vocal public outcry for demilitarization. That a bunch of hard line militants fled to the Outer Rim and formed a terrorist organization wasn't something entirely within their ability to control.

 

[Redryhno]

...(and when you need two more movies to answer questions in the FIRST one there's a bit problem, this is part of why Kara no Kyokai will never be considered as mainstream amazing as it is like something like Madoka).

Uh, not really. It's kind of standard operating procedure for trilogies, particularly more modern day trilogies that are functionally a single story arc broken over a 6 hour span. I'll never understand this bizarre insistence that films be 100% self contained (ushered forth for the first time regarding Rey and Force Awakens). It literally disallows any kind of mystery, cliffhanger or obscured plot point.

I was mostly talking about how more questions were forced to be asked than alot of people were interested in and answers were given for questions nobody was interested in in the first place. And as much as I dislike doing the comparison(I really do), how many questions were raised in the originals that persisted over the entire thing? There was "who/what is Vader", "Who's the guy in the robes", and "how's that work"(on various things). In this one alone we've got questions on who every hero is and how it came to this, what the significance of Vader is to Ren to be this obsessed with him(it's alluded to, but not really answered), who is actually in charge over Ren, the First Order in general, the state of the galaxy in general because they pulled politics into it, etc..

That's like ten large questions raised on characters alone. Even in ANH the majority of them were covered over the course of the first movie(and the ones that weren't largely are relatively minor to the overall narrative and are easily taken care of later on).

And I'm not even condemning it for having it, I'm condemning it for how much/many there are. Series can do this kind of thing easily because they have the time and format to answer them without being forced to cut characters/content out of the show/story/etc. Just too much is what the majority of my complaints end up tying back into. And yeah, I sorta went off there, didn't mean to do that. I've got no problems with questions being left unanswered, just there's too much for them to decently cover them without hand-waving and giving a two-sentence explanation(which they did in the originals, but they also did it with characters that were relatively minor by that point).

 

[axlryder]

Saw where this thread was going real fast. I'll preface this by saying that, in general, I think Rey's character is either good or just okay, depending on her portrayal in next few films.

I think the main issue with Rey's characterization (for me) is not that she does what she does in the film. It's that her besting Kylo Ren via the force twice felt like it undercut both the film's tension and Kylo's character and gave her too many individual "force guided" moments (of which there were like 4-5 throughout the film). The force interrogation scene especially felt like a bit of lazy writing (despite it having been set up) that gave her character an unnecessarily early power boost. It ultimately made the final battle less impacting, despite being a really cool fight.

I would have preferred it if they had mentally battled in the interrogation room, only to have them come to a standstill or maybe have Kylo just barely getting the edge on her before getting distracted by a diversion (maybe accidentally caused by Finn and the gang?) and then have her escape by stealing a key off of him (this is obviously just an example, I'm sure one could make a more compelling scenario that made use of her resourcefulness as a character), and then perhaps they have another mental battle at the END of the movie, during the duel, where she bests him with both physically and mentally which would have led to that fight feeling far more climactic. It also would have better illustrated that, despite Kylo's last act of resolution, he's now only more mentally conflicted and still too weak in the force, rather than just appearing potentially fatigued.

Also, while it's obvious that the film is hinting at her lineage or history being the source of her preternatural talent (I'm assuming she was one of the last surviving students of Luke or something) her character's natural grit doesn't feel like it gets too heavily tested beyond the beginning of the film, despite all of the peril she encounters, which really negatively impacts how winsome she is as a character (again, for me). I mean, the most distress she feels in the film was the PTSD style flashback/force awakening, and while I realize the symbolic significance of that scene, when she nearly gets killed like 10 different times her jimmies seem comparatively less rustled. That said, it might be that they're setting her up like that so she gets knocked in the face with reality that much harder in the next movie (and who better to do it than Luke?) If that is the case, I just wish they didn't have to make the new order look so incompetent (and the Republic, by extension, even MORE incompetent) to capitalize on it.

To get back to the OP, the film seems to skim around too many things, hoping to appeal not only to adult audiences and haters of the prequels by implying a lot, but also to the kids by making the the plot easy to follow. I don't think they quite hit the balance they were going for, resulting in too many plot holes and a fairly unsatisfying standalone viewing experience. If I had known the movie was like this, I'd have just waited until all three came out before watching them. I'm sure they'll feel more cohesive as a unit (plus with the deleted scenes).

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I was mostly talking about how more questions were forced to be asked than alot of people were interested in and answers were given for questions nobody was interested in in the first place. And as much as I dislike doing the comparison(I really do), how many questions were raised in the originals that persisted over the entire thing? There was "who/what is Vader", "Who's the guy in the robes", and "how's that work"(on various things). In this one alone we've got questions on who every hero is and how it came to this, what the significance of Vader is to Ren to be this obsessed with him(it's alluded to, but not really answered), who is actually in charge over Ren, the First Order in general, the state of the galaxy in general because they pulled politics into it, etc..

That's like ten large questions raised on characters alone. Even in ANH the majority of them were covered over the course of the first movie(and the ones that weren't largely are relatively minor to the overall narrative and are easily taken care of later on).

And I'm not even condemning it for having it, I'm condemning it for how much/many there are. Series can do this kind of thing easily because they have the time and format to answer them without being forced to cut characters/content out of the show/story/etc. Just too much is what the majority of my complaints end up tying back into. And yeah, I sorta went off there, didn't mean to do that. I've got no problems with questions being left unanswered, just there's too much for them to decently cover them without hand-waving and giving a two-sentence explanation(which they did in the originals, but they also did it with characters that were relatively minor by that point).

Well, if you hate mysteries and unanswered questions, then that's certainly something you can lay at the feet of J.J. "Mystery Box" Abrams. Guy never found a question he wasn't hyped to not answer. Star Wars does have a bit of a history with shocking reveals/mysteries, most particularly in the form of Luke's parentage, but I don't think it's excessively uncharitable to suggest Abrams gets a little carried away with it. Personally I *like* texturing in Rey using flashbacks and intimation, but I can see it not being for everyone, particularly given the film struggles at times to be fully congruent due to time pressures and a surfeit of characters, plot lines and activity.

I would have preferred it if they had mentally battled in the interrogation room, only to have them come to a standstill or maybe have Kylo just barely getting the edge on her.

I think something important to consider is that Rey, while certainly central to events, is not the only character of significance in this film. She has echoes of Luke in her characterization so it's easy to see her as "the protagonist" and assume the trilogy will swirl around her, but I think Ben Solo could be argued to be equally as significant a character. He's not just a prop with a red lightsaber on hand to inform Rey's characterization, she's also there to inform his. Her resisting his will and seeing his fear and doubt was significant for his characterization, followed by the scene of his intense discomfort when Hux sees him without his mask. When she does overcome him, she does so by slipping...ever so momentarily...into a trance like state and touching the Force...something he's unable to do because he's a storm of emotion, pain and anger. She provokes intense anxiety and uncertainty in him. He flips his shit the first time he hears of her involvement, he treats her gently in captivity, he makes a bid to become her teacher after beating her to the edge of exhaustion. He has a complex relationship with her, possibly a familial one. Unlike Vader, who was mostly there to elucidate the perils of Luke's interaction with The Force and the potential downside of unprepared investigation of his newfound powers, Ben is a full fledged character. Possibly the most richly detailed and explored character of TFA.

 

[Redryhno]

Well, if you hate mysteries and unanswered questions, then that's certainly something you can lay at the feet of J.J. "Mystery Box" Abrams. Guy never found a question he wasn't hyped to not answer. Star Wars does have a bit of a history with shocking reveals/mysteries, most particularly in the form of Luke's parentage, but I don't think it's excessively uncharitable to suggest Abrams gets a little carried away with it. Personally I *like* texturing in Rey using flashbacks and intimation, but I can see it not being for everyone, particularly given the film struggles at times to be fully congruent due to time pressures and a surfeit of characters, plot lines and activity.

Yeah, but again, that was ONE absolutely massive reveal. This time around, they've spent so much time(or at least implied time) on these characters that for them to not have something equivalent each is a bit of a disservice to them and a bit of a waste of the audience's time.

Like I said, nothing wrong with having it. I genuinely like not being able to know where a story is going, but there's few that are actually done in a way that doesn't have the chorus of "lol randumb" in the background somewhere or are frustratingly predictable. My complaint, again, is that they've just put in too much of it. Too much that alot is going to be ignored/cut/forgotten to be able to continue their somewhat coherent narrative in the two-hour runtime of the next two movies.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

They were supposed to be faster, more maneuverable and more heavily armed. It's not like they were some obscure EU element either; they featured prominently in the Battle of Endor. If you really want to split hairs, the massively OP Tie Defender from Tie Fighter <a href=http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/TIE/D_Defender>is part of the new canon.

TIE Interceptors and Defenders were also ludicrously expensive. The Empire has always gone for a quantity-over-quality, and projection-specific, doctrine. The Empire fielded Interceptors and Defenders because they needed them, not because they wanted them as the fighters were actually in contradiction to their military doctrine.

To use an EU example, the Tector-class Star Destroyer is head and shoulders superior to the Imperial II-class. It's up-armored, with superior shields, and a hell of a lot more firepower than an ImpDeuce. Nothing short of a Super-class, or arguably a Liberator-class SoroSuub cruiser, gives it a run for its money. It's also a lot more expensive than an ImpDeuce, and inferior for force projection as an ImpDeuce is a battle-carrier.

[Yes, I'm drawing heavily upon D6 for this. No, I don't care.]

Yet the First Order stubbornly insists on sticking with the basic Tie Fighter design despite upgrading just about everything else in their military. I guess when you're building a planet sized superweapon you have to reallocate funds from something.

Why stray from a proven design when that design can be upgraded?

 

[Kolby Jack]

Rey by comparison was a starving orphan scavenger who somehow managed to become a better mechanic then Han Solo

Wrong. She never one-ups Han, at best she is as knowledgeable about him. And considering she grew up (that's about 20 years) exploring wrecked starships, LIVING in wrecked starships, and living on the same planet that the Falcon was marooned on and WORKING for the guy who "owned" it, your idea that she just spontaneously knew this stuff is crazy.

on her first flight was better then two literal born and raised ace pilots

Um, who? Han? Luke? Poe? She flew well, but we never saw any comparison to any other pilots except TIE pilots, who are... TIE pilots. Poe was even more amazing of a pilot in the film, but he's explicitly described as an experienced ace. But Rey, who spent TWENTY YEARS on Jakku around spaceships, can't possibly be a good pilot because... ???

could use the force better then people who had trained all their lives with it moments after discovering its existence

Wrong again. She bested Kylo Ren in a mind probe because Kylo didn't expect her to be strong in the force and so he underestimated her. She certainly wasn't as skilled as a master Jedi at the mind trick. It didn't work the first time on a STORM TROOPER. Obi-Wan flicked his fingers without even giving a crap and the storm troopers in the first film accepted it instantly. Rey took a shot in the dark and it paid off, because she BELIEVED. If you go by the original films, the Force is mostly about belief, something Rey had in abundance.

and could out dual someone who had trained with a weapon she had never even touched (I know Ben was injured but that fight still was the literal opposite of what basic storytelling should have made it if they wanted us to not think Rey's arc is already complete).

"Basic Storytelling" doesn't mean shit. Finn managed against Kylo Ren too, even wounding him. Rey was on the verge of losing against the badly wounded Kylo Ren, too, until she calmed down and, yes, BELIEVED. *gasp* Kind of like Luke firing the torpedoes into the Death Star?!?! And if you believe Rey showed much skill in that fight, you don't know a thing about swordsmanship. Anybody can pick up a damn sword and be okay with it.

I'm not even arguing that Rey had obvious flaws beyond not wanting to leave Jakku, nor am I arguing that she's an especially well-written character. I'm just pointing out that this Mary Sue tripe people keep spewing is idiotic. The details of Rey's skills have precedence but you Mary Sue-cryers refuse to acknowledge them, and the ONLY reason I can understand why people do this is because of sexism, even if they'll twist and contort as much as they can to try and dodge that label.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Um, who? Han? Luke? Poe? She flew well, but we never saw any comparison to any other pilots except TIE pilots, who are... TIE pilots. Poe was even more amazing of a pilot in the film, but he's explicitly described as an experienced ace. But Rey, who spent TWENTY YEARS on Jakku around spaceships, can't possibly be a good pilot because... ???

I have no idea why people don't tear Poe apart like they do Rey. That single shot in which he destroyed like thirteen TIE fighters and blasts several troopers, doing sharp turns, and Finn yells "That's one hell of a pilot!" was absolutely absurd. An ace pilot is lucky to shoot down five fighters in their career. In that one scene, he became like a triple ace pilot.

There's several potential reasons why no one tears Poe apart. The first is that he is a secondary character without a lot of screen time, so it's not so 'in your face.'

The rest of the reasons are depressing, to say the least, and fairly offensive to the 'Rey Hate' club.

 

[ThatOtherGirl]

Um, who? Han? Luke? Poe? She flew well, but we never saw any comparison to any other pilots except TIE pilots, who are... TIE pilots. Poe was even more amazing of a pilot in the film, but he's explicitly described as an experienced ace. But Rey, who spent TWENTY YEARS on Jakku around spaceships, can't possibly be a good pilot because... ???

I have no idea why people don't tear Poe apart like they do Rey. That single shot in which he destroyed like thirteen TIE fighters and blasts several troopers, doing sharp turns, and Finn yells "That's one hell of a pilot!" was absolutely absurd. An ace pilot is lucky to shoot down five fighters in their career. In that one scene, he became like a triple ace pilot.

Dear god, you are right. I just went and found that scene. That is completely absurd. For some reason I remembered him taking out only two TIEs and a ground target. I guess my brain just rejected it, and I missed that scene on my rewatch because of the baby. I do remember thinking it was pretty stupid when I first saw it (though I still like the character.)

And everyone focuses on complaining about Rey's piloting ability in the same movie.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

From what I can gather, without looking into the official canon tie-ins and relying solely on my inferences with the movie, the Empire is gone or at least so whipped they cannot fight anymore, the New Republic has a token military force but doesn't believe there will be any larger threats in the galaxy to worry about.
The First Order, however, seems to be made up of younger folks who're bent on trying to be the Empire but not quite actually fitting the bill. I mean they hit the visual notes, Stormtroopers/White Armor, dark uniformed officers, badass force-user in a mask and cloak, large superweapon capable of destroying planets, Emperor-like figure in the shadows and running the show through large-scale hologram chat. They seem like they desperately want to rebuild the past glory of the Empire itself. But they're not the Empire.
I'd like to point out that none of the people you see who're high up in the First Order are older than perhaps 40, except Snoke who we have no clue what species he is. General Hux looks to be maybe in his thirties, a relatively young age for a General. Phasma is about 35 according to what I've read. Ren is somewhere in his 20's I'd guess.
Anyway, there's a lot more going on that we don't know about yet that I'm hoping Ep. 8 and 9 actually delve into that gives us some more background on why certain things are happening.

On the subject of the Rey/Mary Sue thing: People, she fucks up things. She's not uber accomplished in the Force, she holds off a severely wounded Ren and nowhere have we learned if Ren is anywhere near fully trained. In fact he's shown to be powerful, yes but he's also shown to be extremely immature. But look at his lightsaber, its poorly constructed and he isn't that good with it. So we're not talking about a guy who is absolutely trained and deadly, but rather a scared and angry kid who's trying so hard to be Vader (and failing miserably). Once again, the theme of the wannabe Empire shows.

 

[Frankster]

But Rey, who spent TWENTY YEARS on Jakku around spaceships, can't possibly be a good pilot because... ???

Because being around crashed spaceships doesn't turn you into a space ace anymore then being around wrecked cars makes you into a formula 1 driver. Trust me, I've lived most of my life around actual functioning cars and I still don't know how to drive by osmosis. Jokes aside this was why when I actually watched the film I was so surprised to see she could pilot the falcon, heck I wasn't even sure she knew how to drive because you always see her walking around rather then using any vehicle.
Then it was explained to me she learnt via simulators in the novelization...But really, can you blame people for not assuming that?

There's several potential reasons why NO ONE tears Poe apart.

And EVERYONE focuses on complaining about Rey's piloting ability in the same movie.

But honestly we all know who the best pilot in the entire setting is...Poe. He makes taking out 5 ties in a single pass look stupidly easy, it's a mystery why the resistance doesn't just unleash Poe by himself to face down entire fleets.
Or maybe that's how the rebellion won at Jahku and all the wreckage is in fact Poe's kills?

Oh god this is starting to be a worrying trend in TFA threads. I'm gonna give you guys a squeeze because it was quite a few posts ago and it was only 3 lines, so maybe you don't get an accurate sense of my nerd rage in that single snipe that was otherwise completed unrelated to what I was talking about.
But BloatedGuppy or anyone else who was there at the last thread can back me up on this, I was hating on Poe before it was cool and had epic nerd rages on him before it was pointed out that apparently no one does it and I'm a card carrying member of the Rey hate club. #notallreyhaters

If you liked that scene though, here is another one for you guys: ever gave much thought on how Poe came from waking up in the desert alone without even his jacket (and having survived a fall high enough to separate him from his friend so they weren't in sight of each other), to suddenly being at the head of the flight of resistance fighters right before he goes earning his acehood thrice over?
It's apparently explained in a deleted scene but even with it (he got a ride by 2 random dudes) you gotta love how easy it was to leave Jahku all along with absolutely no money and nothing more then the shirt on your back, and make it back to resistance hq via galactic hitch hiking, have a bit of tea, then go off and rescue the protagonists right at the exact most perfect time.
This guy being Ace Rimmer on steroids though, he probably had all sorts of adventures and blew up some First Order fleets on his way with nothing more then a perfectly delivered quip and then banged like two space princesses.

 

[axlryder]

I think something important to consider is that Rey, while certainly central to events, is not the only character of significance in this film. She has echoes of Luke in her characterization so it's easy to see her as "the protagonist" and assume the trilogy will swirl around her, but I think Ben Solo could be argued to be equally as significant a character. He's not just a prop with a red lightsaber on hand to inform Rey's characterization, she's also there to inform his. Her resisting his will and seeing his fear and doubt was significant for his characterization, followed by the scene of his intense discomfort when Hux sees him without his mask. When she does overcome him, she does so by slipping...ever so momentarily...into a trance like state and touching the Force...something he's unable to do because he's a storm of emotion, pain and anger. She provokes intense anxiety and uncertainty in him. He flips his shit the first time he hears of her involvement, he treats her gently in captivity, he makes a bid to become her teacher after beating her to the edge of exhaustion. He has a complex relationship with her, possibly a familial one. Unlike Vader, who was mostly there to elucidate the perils of Luke's interaction with The Force and the potential downside of unprepared investigation of his newfound powers, Ben is a full fledged character. Possibly the most richly detailed and explored character of TFA.

Hey, thanks for the response. I thought this was going to be one of those 'screaming into a vacuum' posts. I see where you're coming from, and I'm actually a really big fan of how Kylo's character was handled in the film overall. I agree that there's absolutely some connection between the two characters, and that such a bond would cause Kylo to falter in an uncharacteristic way, I just felt like the interrogation scene was a little too on the nose, especially at that point in the movie. I think they did a pretty good job illustrating the vulnerability he feels around Rey and his general feelings self-doubt without Rey straight up probing his mind and declaring that "you're afraid you'll never be as good as darth vader" or however it was phrased. Overall it was more of a delivery and pacing issue that really took me out of the movie at that point. Of course, I can see why they did what they did, as changes scenes and shifting them around definitely causes some other problems, most of which we just can't know until the rest of the films come out, but I can't help but feel that some things could have been executed in a more satisfying and tempered way.

 

[Tiger King]

I only got around to watching it the other night.
Was an ok film I suppose, I'm not a super Star Wars fan but there was a big flaw in it for me.

Super spoiler alert!!
Super spoiler alert!!!

At the end that princess Liea girl runs straight to Ray and hugs her despite having never even met her.
I understand it may have been a force thing but still, chewbacca was not even looked at regarding his loss.

Kinda felt it was a bit of a rehash of the first film.
Also felt Ray was ticking all the feminist boxes for 'strong, independent woman'

I enjoyed it though.

 

[DefunctTheory]

At the end that princess Liea girl runs straight to Ray and hugs her despite having never even met her.
I understand it may have been a force thing but still, chewbacca was not even looked at regarding his loss.

First, for future reference...

[spoiler-
Spoiled Text
[/spoiler-

Replace - with ]

Second, that event was acknowledged as a goof by the director. A fairly bizarre one at that.

 

[Timedraven 117]

On Topic:

The New Republic are absolutely moronic individuals. The political reason given for their military downsizing are not just laughable but almost insultingly stupid. The main reason was that after they seemingly broke the back of the Empire they downsized to reassure the greater galactic public that they weren't the empire and wouldn't be oppressive and controlling. Two problems with that. PIRATES/RAIDERS/TERRORISTS, Ethnic and Species Tensions! You see all those space pirates, illegal smugglers, raiders, criminal cartels, rogue fleets, ect, are still out there, people still have to police the outer worlds, have to protect trade, protect the innocent, fight those who would harm others. But *GASP* you can't do that with a single fleet centered around your capital world! Even if you let surrounding wolds police it themselves, many worlds after decades of military oppression by the Empire won't have the fleets, ships, manpower, or officers to do the job anywhere adequately. And if they for some reason DO have the economic and military power to do this, we come into problem 2 Ethnic tensions between neighboring species and star systems. It was outright stated in many of the EU books that after the empire folded many repressed tensions, wars, and disagreements sparked into full fledged conflicts that the New Republic now had to deal with, quite succinctly in the Thrawn series of books.

Now all of this could be avoided, and the political grumbling killed by one fix. Regional fleets, specifically formed from the previous Rebellion regional cell system which worked amazingly well against the empire, (Which BTW is totally within Disneys new cannon). They have the infrastructure, connections, regional support, manpower, and equipment to handle the job. They only thing that would need to be changed is certain leadership positions to ensure that everyone within the entire command structure are impartial and objective minded individuals to make sure that the previous ethnic tensions don't become an issue.

This would solve politics because under regional rule the local star systems have a say on what goes on in the military structure and can use them as a general impartial policing force.

Next is baffling nature of HOW THE HELL THE FIRST ORDER CAN MAKE STARKILLER IN THE FIRST PLACE WITH NO ONE KNOWING! I mean the Emperor made a star station the size of a small moon and tried his best to keep it absolutely secret. It failed. It failed so hard that the Rebels successful attempt at killing it wasn't even their first time TRYING. Now why the hell is Starkiller not revealed as soon as the plans are drawn up? There are more than enough people in the power structure or simply working on it to have more than enough reason to secretly slip that information to the republic, since there is not a force sensitive powerful enough to latently keep ALL of the First Order under their force control. For reference on how hard it is to keep anything that big secret, Operation Barbarossa was known to be happening by EVERYONE, even the soviet Union, (It was only fucking Stalin who overruled basically everyone that the Soviets were caught with their pants down while changing). Even Operation Overlord was known by the Nazis to be about to happen, and the Allies succeed through brilliant redirection methods and by going in very unfavorable weather, and even then it required a lot of luck and hard work to successfully trick the Germans. So even the New Republic can realize, "Where the hell are all those resources and manpower going? a black hole?" Even the excuse of them using many of their resources from the Unknown Regions have the problem of the fact that the Emperor with the resources of the ENTIRE Galactic Empire couldn't make a station the size of a small moon secret, how the ll is the First Order, an organization a percentile the size of the Galactic Empire, even with the presumably largely underdeveloped Unknown Regions, going to make a planet sized starbase that converts a small amount of the power of a sun, and fires it across hyperspace, a secret?

I could go on, but you get my point. I'm very disappointed with JJ Abrams and Disney for the direction they took. (Of course the Books after the Pellion-Gressom treaty weren't much better, but still).

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

What I want to know is why the ENTIRE Republic Fleet was apparently around those three planets.

Seriously, the governing body of a galaxy somehow doesn't have enough ships to completely blot out the sky of a planet just from numbers alone, and for some reason most of, if not their ENTIRE fleet not on loan to the resistance is focused around one of these planets. How the HELL did Warhammer 40,000 become the more sensible sci-fi universe?!

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

Everything here

Seriously, freaking A Poe.

Not gonna lie guys, I'm pretty certain Poe would be getting just as many Gary Stu accusation as Rey has been getting except for the fact he's not in the movie enough for people to really notice his more stand out moments. (Such as nailing a couple of Stormtroopers behind his on foot buddies from an in flight X-Wing.)

I'm also pretty certain he was supposed to be in the first half of the movie, but they edited him out and never really rewrote the script accordingly.

 

[xaszatm]

I still have to ask; why is the New Galactic Republic not actively fighting the First Order in the new trilogy? The GR is a legitimate government, and its not like the First Order is a rival government; they're clearly a terrorist organization with a bank account and they even act like they acknowledge it.

Yet the NGR limits their fight to a small, barely organized "Resistance" movement? Why the fuck isn't the actual Navy assisting; why doesn't the Resistance appear to have ACTUAL ships, not just small craft?

What the hell guys?

(Also, I have sadface because my new avatar won't appear)

Ok, it's important to note that there are 4 factions in Star Wars: The Force Awakens These four factions are

The New Republic - What the Rebellion turned into after winning the Galactic War. Is currently the most powerful faction in the galaxy. Is a very peaceful state which is why it hasn't officially declared war on the First Order

The Imperial Remnant - The remnants of the Galactic Empire. After losing the Galactic War, the Imperial Remnant is forced to pay several reparations, leaving utterly broke in galactic economic turns. The currently are not at war with anyone.

The First Order - Pissed-off, glory-seeking. ignorant war hawks who worship the old Galactic Empire. Fanatic to restoring the Empire, those small faction uses its resources to wage battle against the New Republic. However, they are considered a fringe, if powerful, faction that has no real ties to the Imperial Remnant

The Resistance - Since the New Republic won't declare war, certain individuals instead fund The Resistance, which is a small "independent" group waging war against the similarly "independent" First Order.

The biggest reason why The New Republic doesn't officially wage war on the First Order is because they do not want to risk war with the Imperial Remnant. Though The New Republic does have the resources to fight and win such a war, it would be a timely cost of supplies and lives and ruin an already fragile infrastructure. In the New Republic's eye, it's far better for both factions to "ease the tension" rather than go all out in another costly war. Of course, with the use of Starkiller Base, this opinion might change.

Now, if the damn movie actually BOTHERED to explain any of that rather than leaving it in the book, then there'd be less questions.

Not gonna lie man, I'm pretty certain Poe would be getting just as many Gary Stu accusation as Rey has been getting except for the fact he's not in the movie enough for people to really notice his more stand out moments. (Such as nailing a couple of Stormtroopers behind his on foot buddies from an in flight X-Wing.)

I'm also pretty certain he was supposed to be in the first half of the movie, but they edited him out and never really rewrote the script accordingly.

Actually, it's the opposite. Poe Daemon was supposed to die when the TIE Fighter crashed. It's just that his actor had such good chemistry that he was added back into the script. So, instead of him being cut in the first half, he was added (rather sloppily I might add) into the second half, which explains a lot of his Gary Stu-ish traits.

What I want to know is why the ENTIRE Republic Fleet was apparently around those three planets.

Seriously, the governing body of a galaxy somehow doesn't have enough ships to completely blot out the sky of a planet just from numbers alone, and for some reason most of, if not their ENTIRE fleet not on loan to the resistance is focused around one of these planets. How the HELL did Warhammer 40,000 become the more sensible sci-fi universe?!

If I recall correctly, it wasn't the entire fleet but rather the fleet closest in comparison to Starkiller Base and any other fleet wouldn't make it in time. Of course...this doesn't explain why there's no capital starship orbiting the Starkiller base. You know, that Superweapon you guys own? I mean, even the two Deathstars kept an Imperial Star Destroyer or two nearby.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

...a severely wounded Ren and nowhere have we learned if Ren is anywhere near fully trained.

The ending of the film. The inference from Snoke's line about completing Ren's training is that he isn't fully-trained. Building upon that, the greater implication (especially given lines earlier in the film) is that killing Han was Ren's equivalent to the Jedi trials, for whatever order of which Snoke is (or isn't) a part. All that we realistically know, is the Knights of Ren are a group of Snoke's disciplines/apprentices.

But look at his lightsaber, its poorly constructed and he isn't that good with it.

Canon kind of contradicts you on that one a bit. It's an Old Republic design, and as far as mechanics and working components go exceptionally well-crafted. Comments about its crudeness or poor nature of design typically reflect the aesthetics of the lightsaber, which aligns with the rest of his characterization.

Functionally, its failing is that its focusing crystal is cracked, causing it to generate an unstable (and overpowered) blade. The crossguard is actually a design necessity to bleed off excess power without overloading the crystal or its power grid. And, depending upon how heavily Disney draws from the better parts of the EU (and it looks like they are very willing, at least with the animated material)...Dark Side users are all over the place when it comes to building lightsabers. Ren may very well have fit a cracked crystal into his blade on purpose -- Dark Siders intentionally using inferior crystals to produce unstable blades is something of an EU staple.

So we're not talking about a guy who is absolutely trained and deadly, but rather a scared and angry kid who's trying so hard to be Vader (and failing miserably). Once again, the theme of the wannabe Empire shows.

I'd actually disagree...to a certain extent.

Being able to stop a blaster bolt in mid-air, and later taking a center-mass hit with a bowcaster and surviving, let alone still being combat-effective, indicates he either has a natural talent for absorb/dissipate, or is highly trained in it. The same goes for his skill with telekinesis, and telepathy. He's unrefined, but no slouch by any stretch of the imagination.

Of course, on the other hand he blows at drawing upon the Dark Side, having to aggravate his own wounds to do it.