Age of Distraction: Where Avengers Messed Up

[Fanghawk]

As a movie I very much liked it. I don't think it was as good as the first one though. I also don't feel that any movie "needs" to exist. That is a bit of a pedantic point to make, in my opinion. It had one major impact which was not done particularly well though. The main thing was to introduce the heroes of Earth to the Infinity Stones. In that respect, the most important scene was the stinger. Clearly vision is meant to play a big part of that (the Mind Gem and all) but it would have been better served if his character arrived sooner rather than in the last 20 minutes and then proceeded to not wow or impress in his abilities at all (no changing density, that would have been incredible, but then we got a stupid version of the Scarlet Witch too).

But does it need to exist? None of them need to exist. It moved the MCU forward, just in more baby steps than the previous films have done. It makes me wonder if you are going to be essentially reprinting this article after Antman comes out. That will also probably not progress the MCU in any meaningful way other than to introduce more characters.

When I say "need to exist", I mainly mean what in terms of what it contributes to the overall universe. And in Age of Ultron's case, I'd say it's mostly spinning its wheels until Phase 3 gets here.

That's fine with a standalone movie (like Ant-Man, for example) but very new for Avengers, which is supposed to be about big defining threats that no one hero can face alone. I mean, Loki is a major villain across three films. Thanos will be a cosmic villain across 3-6 films by the time it's done. But Ultron just gets one - and given that the ending very much seems like it's restoring the status quo, his impact is limited by comparison.

 

[Louzerman102]

I think part of the issue is that one of the major things that happens in Avengers 2 is the reveal of the infinity stones. To us in the audience this doesn't matter much because we saw Guardians of the Galaxy, however this is the first time the heroes on Earth understand what is happening with Thanos and the stones. The importance of the reveal is diminished because we the audience know more than the characters.

 

[Seishisha]

I think when considering the movie as a whole there is actualy a huge amount of important stuff happening all the time, but the vast majority of it is foreshadowing.

To list a few things. Hydra has basicly been eliminated with all the key leaders dead or missing (this is elaborated on in the TV show), shield is back and in public (everything in the TV show upto then has been covert), Wakanda is name dropped as the source of vibranium and the character klaw is introduced which is obviously important to the upcoming black panther movie.

Stark and cap's conflict obviously will be brought back up in civil war, thor's dream/vision im guessing is hinting at ragnarok which puts him conviently out of the way during civil war, the hulk dissapearing at the end also puts him out of the way, arguably the MCU avengers two most powerful characters out of the picture for the forseable future.

The constuction of a training facility, said facility possibly being used to train and examine all future powered indivuals as part of the registration act (the TV show "explains" how the inhumans become so wide spread)

There are a few little moments aswell such as vision flying in to save scarlet witch, alluding to their future romance. As i said loads of stuff happening all the damn time but it's all foreshadowing for future movies.


Forgive me for skipping out most of this qoute but i wanted to talk about this bit.

Clearly vision is meant to play a big part of that (the Mind Gem and all) but it would have been better served if his character arrived sooner rather than in the last 20 minutes and then proceeded to not wow or impress in his abilities at all (no changing density, that would have been incredible, but then we got a stupid version of the Scarlet Witch too).

Personaly i think they handled the introduction of vision well, i was already aware of him from the comics so perhaps my judgement is alittle biased though. As for his powers, particularly the density shifting he does use it in the film, numerous times during the fights especialy against the ultron drones vision phases he hands/arms straight through the enemies to rip them apart, easy to miss though because the fights scenes are very often fast and busy.

 

[Baresark]

I think when considering the movie as a whole there is actualy a huge amount of important stuff happening all the time, but the vast majority of it is foreshadowing.

To list a few things. Hydra has basicly been eliminated with all the key leaders dead or missing (this is elaborated on in the TV show), shield is back and in public (everything in the TV show upto then has been covert), Wakanda is name dropped as the source of vibranium and the character klaw is introduced which is obviously important to the upcoming black panther movie.

Stark and cap's conflict obviously will be brought back up in civil war, thor's dream/vision im guessing is hinting at ragnarok which puts him conviently out of the way during civil war, the hulk dissapearing at the end also puts him out of the way, arguably the MCU avengers two most powerful characters out of the picture for the forseable future.

The constuction of a training facility, said facility possibly being used to train and examine all future powered indivuals as part of the registration act (the TV show "explains" how the inhumans become so wide spread)

There are a few little moments aswell such as vision flying in to save scarlet witch, alluding to their future romance. As i said loads of stuff happening all the damn time but it's all foreshadowing for future movies.


Forgive me for skipping out most of this qoute but i wanted to talk about this bit.

Clearly vision is meant to play a big part of that (the Mind Gem and all) but it would have been better served if his character arrived sooner rather than in the last 20 minutes and then proceeded to not wow or impress in his abilities at all (no changing density, that would have been incredible, but then we got a stupid version of the Scarlet Witch too).

Personaly i think they handled the introduction of vision well, i was already aware of him from the comics so perhaps my judgement is alittle biased though. As for his powers, particularly the density shifting he does use it in the film, numerous times during the fights especialy against the ultron drones vision phases he hands/arms straight through the enemies to rip them apart, easy to miss though because the fights scenes are very often fast and busy.

Oh yeah, I did forget about that. I guess those scenes had less impact than I had originally though. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Yuuki]

Where Age Of Ultron messed up was all the awkward/forced romance parts. I almost fell asleep during those sections. It was so painfully obvious they were trying to build deeper character, but those sections simply weren't entertaining whatsoever and did nothing for me.

The whole thing between Black Widow and Hulk was just...urhg, it felt so POINTLESS. Yes Natasha, I'm sure being infertile is just as much "monstrous" as turning into an 8-foot-tall green indestructible beast.

Did anyone actually enjoy that shit?

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Iron Man 3 was the best of the series.

I respectfully disagree. Being better than 2 doesn't mean it was superior to the original.

I'd argue that Iron Man 2 is still the gold standard for unnecessary Marvel Movies.

This guy knows whats up. Ultron was fun enough to fill this space in the MCU and besides, Ultron is famous for always coming back in a new form. Maybe he kept a copy of his source code in a satellite? He had unlimited internet control for a period... The potential ramifications of this villain is more interesting than anything Ivan Vanko did.[footnote]Having to google the villains name when you remember most of the movie is not a great sign.[/footnote]

Spoiler: Anyway, the missed opportunity to have a clear split between Rogers and Stark here is still valid.

I mean, just because they lucked out and created Vision instead of making an even worse threat doesn't mean Captain America had to shrug that off when they parted ways. A more cold exit between the two would have been better but whatever. Stark is going to do something even worse while trying to protect the Earth and that'll make Captain America mad. Huzah.

 

[murrayb67]

Where Age Of Ultron messed up was all the awkward/forced romance parts. I almost fell asleep during those sections. It was so painfully obvious they were trying to build deeper character, but those sections simply weren't entertaining whatsoever and did nothing for me.

The whole thing between Black Widow and Hulk was just...urhg, it felt so POINTLESS. Yes Natasha, I'm sure being infertile is just as much "monstrous" as turning into an 8-foot-tall green indestructible beast.

Did anyone actually enjoy that shit?

It's not being infertile that makes her a monster, it's the fact that before Hawkeye saved her she was a murder machine. Being sterilized, taking her agency away, was part of the process of turning her into a murder machine. As we've seen in three films now, she struggles with the guilt of her past life still. She considers herself a monster due to as Loki put it "a ledger with so much red."

 

[Darren716]

The whole thing between Black Widow and Hulk was just...urhg, it felt so POINTLESS. Yes Natasha, I'm sure being infertile is just as much "monstrous" as turning into an 8-foot-tall green indestructible beast.

Personally I think they screwed up the editing with the monster line, I have a feeling it was supposed to be a reference to her training and how she learned to kill without remorse, the timing was just bad and you can see the cut in the scene.

OT: I say it's all about seeing where things go from here and planting the seeds for Civil War next year, and as others had said the reveal of the infinity stones is greatly diminished since we've known about them for about three years now and it was really only a twist for the characters.

 

[murrayb67]

I've also read that quite a bit was cut, especially Thor's stuff. I agree with others that we can't really judge the impact on subsequent films without actually having any.

 

[Yuuki]

It's not being infertile that makes her a monster, it's the fact that before Hawkeye saved her she was a murder machine. Being sterilized, taking her agency away, was part of the process of turning her into a murder machine. As we've seen in three films now, she struggles with the guilt of her past life still. She considers herself a monster due to as Loki put it "a ledger with so much red."

Still can't take her seriously when characters like Iron Man, Hulk and Thor are around. We've actually seen those heroes at their strongest and weakest, we can sympathize with what they've been through, and we can respect them at the height of their amazing power.

Black Widow is pretty much just all talk. "Ohhh my past, my training, ledger is red, etc" well boo fucking hoo missy -_-

But I guess I still appreciate her being around because she's has some NICE...err...assets.

 

[murrayb67]

It's not being infertile that makes her a monster, it's the fact that before Hawkeye saved her she was a murder machine. Being sterilized, taking her agency away, was part of the process of turning her into a murder machine. As we've seen in three films now, she struggles with the guilt of her past life still. She considers herself a monster due to as Loki put it "a ledger with so much red."

Still can't take her seriously when characters like Iron Man, Hulk and Thor are around. We've actually seen those heroes at their strongest and weakest, we can sympathize with what they've been through, and we can respect them at the height of their amazing power.

Black Widow is pretty much just all talk. "Ohhh my past, my training, ledger is red, etc" well boo fucking hoo missy -_-

But I guess I still appreciate her being around because she's has some NICE...err...assets.

I don't disagree with that, it's just that so much has been made of conflating her monster comment with her infertility. That's all I ws commenting on. Personally, I wish they'd have introduced Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel sooner. I find BWs importance somewhat inflated in the movies.

 

[TallanKhan]

I think we may come to judge Age of Ultron more kindly once we settle into Phase 3. It has a different angle to the first Avengers sure but that doesn't make worse that makes it different. The significance of what we saw during Avengers Assemble was mostly apparent at the time because it's purpose was to tie four separate films together, and while it did lay some long-term groundwork (Thanos etc.) most of phase 2 (the exception being GotG) was continuations of the current Avenger's individual stories. I suspect with AoU, the reverse will be true and that most of the "payoff" will be in the subsequent movies which this has laid the groundwork for.

 

[MasterOfHisOwnDomain]

I agree. But Age of Ultron could've easily gone one step further and ended with Iron Man and Cap still pissed at each other. It perfectly explains why Stark leaves the Avengers, and makes it easier to generate tension between them in Civil War. There's no reason to smooth their relationship over if the rift will just be torn open again immediately.

My friend was supposed to go with us to see it, but he got tied up so we went without him. The next day, he went and saw it with another group, and this was one of his criticisms. He liked how Cap and Iron Man were at each others' throats for pretty much the whole movie, but then that end just punched it all in the head. And it's totally true. Every time in the movie those two yelled at each other, I kept going, 'Civil War, Civil War,' but then they patch it up at the end.

That surprised me even more because usually in a trilogy (though technically Avengers is now a tetralogy ...) the second part finishes on a distinctly darker tone (such as Empire Strikes Back), and a lot of commentators were predicting it would. I think this was missing a trick; the Captain and Iron Man could fought together for the purposes of taking down Ultron (which is essential) but then been unable to be reconciled at the end of the film -- that would have given some emotional punch, a lot more build-up to Civil War, and frankly been more "realistic" (since Stark was the driving force between the film's entire dilemma).

 

[Guffe]

I think Age of Ultron was a worldbuilder as much as anything and really made me look forward for phase 3.
There were loads of action, but in between there were character traits coming up, who thinks what about different ideological stuff (civil war). Then we had the "new team" at the end (old people gonna die? Civil War, Thor3?) with Hulk gone, IronMan businessing and Thor back in Asgard, and a few new important characters introduced (Maximoffs and Vision). Then there was loads of stuff going on "behind the scenes", we know new people have their hands on adamantium (Black Panther) and we got a new infinitygem (which everyone knew was there of course). We had people rebuilding SHIELD all this time (Agents of Shield).

I have to say I loved the fact that Hawkeye got more screentime and his secret just brought a major smile upon my face. I seem to be in the minority but I really like the character!

 

[Gorrath]

Age of Ultron absolutely was necessary. It is the bridge between the old team and the new. It wraps up plot elements left over from Winter Soldier. It serves as a deeper look at some of the characters. It finally shows us the mind stone.

What did IM3 give us? Nothing from that film has had seemingly any impact on anything. The big bad has not come back nor has his scheming caused any further trouble. Tony retired for about 30 seconds. Pepper gained and lost her powers. IM3 gave us nothing that tied into anything so far as I can see and was easily the most surperfluous of any of the films to date. (I also personally find it the lest interesting. I'd rather watch IM2 over and over than suffer through Tony's 'crisis' again.)

 

[Politrukk]

Age of Distraction: Where Avengers Messed Up

Avengers: Age of Ultron is a fun movie, but does it add anything substantial to the Marvel Cinematic Universe?

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You should do a similar piece questioning why Marvel even started a movie like Civil war based on an Arc that spanned the entire Marvel Universe midway into their movieplans.


I mean the point about Civil war wasn't just the Cap VS Iron Man confrontation.

It was about the superhuman registration act and how that impacted the entire world.

Obviously due to The Fantastic Four and X-Men not being usable the Civil war premise already took a big hit but...

They regained Spiderman and as of now it doesn't even sound like they're going to include him even though he was supposed to be sort of "the eye of the reader" in this story.


TLDR: There's next to no set-up for Civil War to happen and it's pretty much doomed to taste at least a little bad in regards to the comic book counterpart.

 

[Politrukk]

Captain America: The Winter Soldier flipped everything on its head... until both Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Age of Ultron quietly omit that it ever happened.

How did Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D omit anything?

Omitting means intentionally leaving out.

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D's entire second season was tied around the demolition and intentional rebuilding of S.H.I.E.L.D

 

[Evonisia]

Snip.

Yes, poor choice of words. My point that Winter Soldier didn't change anything when both AoS and AoU both went to lengths to revert everything back to status quo still stands. By Age of Ultron (so in the film universe, the very next film, Guardians doesn't count), everything is back to normal, all Winter Soldier did was reveal the existence of the Twins.

 

[happyninja42]

Bits I liked in Ultron:

Spoiler

-Tony Stark going "Please be a secret door, please be a secret door." *pushes wall, revealing secret door* "Yay"
-Iron Man and Hulk fighting it out in that city. Felt genuinely tense and upsetting, as we were witness to Bruce Banner's greatest fear, that he would lose total control, and become a threat to innocent people.
-Tony Saying "Gotosleep gotosleep gotosleep!" *Hulk spits out tooth* "...i'm sorry"
-Scarlet Witch using her powers to evacuate the city. This was very subtle and minor, but I loved it. It showed them actually doing what they are supposed to do, protect humanity.
-Scarlet Witch coming out of her hiding place after Hawkeye gave her a Rousing Call to Duty. It was cliche I know, but I've always been a sucker for scenes where a character who is powerful, actually embraces their power, and opens up a can of whoopass with it.

Bit I didn't like in Ultron:

Everything else.

 

[Makabriel]

Yeah, sorry but I disagree. Avengers 2, like the first, was needed to setup the next phase.

And please, Guardians contributed nothing to the overall MCU storyline, save that it was about one of the gems.