Aha! Antagonists you hate!

[ImSkeletor]

Captain Janeway is easily the most evil villian in all of Star Trek.
Though I despise the King of France in the Borgias. Just a complete psychotic and stupid enough to get tricked by a little girl.

 

[FalloutJack]

Captain Janeway is easily the most evil villian in all of Star Trek.

Interesting, but...huh? Whachu talkin' 'bout, Skeletor?

 

[War Penguin]

Snip

Snip

And Snip

Good thing I'm not the only one who thinks Caesar's Legion is a terrible antagonist.

Seriously, I thought the game would have benefited greatly in story if they were taken out of the whole "who will run New Vegas" equation. Okay, maybe not completely taken out, but have them not be a major faction to take over the wasteland. Make it a damaging wound to the NCR like the Fiends, or something.

Honestly, it would have been much more morally ambiguous if you had to choose between Mr. House and the NCR.

On the one hand, you have a man who doesn't seem to be keeping touch with the world around him, assumed to be crazy, and also might gain complete control over everything, assumed to be a dictatorship. However, he has had a well thought plan from before even the bombs fell, and he has great hopes for Vegas. On the other hand, you have democratic republic wishing to expand and full of people who want to really help those in need. However, it is hindered by beurocratic bullshit, inability to control raiding gangs, and incompetent leaders and soldiers.

Both of those choices would not be a good one nor a bad one. Both sides have their faults, but they have their plusses as well. Having to choose one of those would be truly morally ambiguous. Caesar's Legion really fucked that up with being the obvious evil villains. Of course if you're not a bad karma character, you will not choose them. But they play a major part that they sort of slow the rest of the story down.

 

[BaronUberstein]

but killing mr house....damn that made me feel awful....and whatever justification/reason you gave felt really really hollow

Eh, not for me. I saw him as a selfish charlatan, I was simply another tool for his use like Benny, and the moment I wasn't useful he would have tossed me aside.

Mr. House was charismatic as fuck, but I simply can't see him as the better option.

 

[NeutralDrow]

Caesars Legion, I like how people try to put them in the gray area when the game outright tells you they are evil.

I agree.....its not just the women are slaves thing (which kinda means I can abide by them at all) but also becuase their culture is brutish and hateful and everything I can't stand

Heh. Best part for me was listening to Caesar explain how he united the tribes and based them on Imperial Roman culture, which was about the most hilarious explanation I'd ever heard. I couldn't tell if he was stupid or just holding back every aspect of Roman culture that disagreed with his personal philosophy (like Romanization, which outside a few instances was far from "salted earth warfare", and more leading by technocratic and cultural osmosis), or that were borrowed from other cultures that the Romans had no concept of. The Romans were far from the most feministic culture, but the Legion's treatment of women overall is more along the lines of Ancient Greece, and the Romans kept slaves, but the Legion's interpretation of slavery is less "semi-permanent servants" and more in line with that of the 1800s American South.

So basically, just to add a further dash of black, the Legion is cruel and hateful, and their leader is either a delusional maniac or a flat-out hypocrite, who's one good quality is that he taught some people to correctly pronounce "Caesar."

 

[Vault101]

Well, they slaughter a whole outpost, not the ones at old Mormon Fort (thankfully) Like I said, they did so as complete assholes, you have to kill them anyway. This can only happen in Veronica's quest "I could make you care" Which cannot be completed if you destroy the Bunker.

The Followers at the fort are safe (unless you kill them yourself)

but they dont kill Veronica right?..or do they?

Caesar's Legion really fucked that up with being the obvious evil villains. Of course if you're not a bad karma character, you will not choose them. But they play a major part that they sort of slow the rest of the story down.

I dont think it messed it up that badly...cesars legion was a common enemy you could gleefully stop the shit out of

and even though I wrote the legion off as an option early..I still had to consider the other 3 (mr house. NCR or independant) and that was a tough call

 

[Vault101]

yeah, I had to laugh when ceasar said the NCR was "corrupt"

and the Romans kept slaves, but the Legion's interpretation of slavery is less "semi-permanent servants" and more in line with that of the 1800s American South.
."

how were the roman slaves different?

anyway..they seem more like spartans than romans (though I dont know anything about that kind of thing)

 

[Infernai]

This White haired, backstabbing, ************ right here:

I don't give a DAMN if he took down a corrupt demon king, this guy's done shit i can never ever forgive.
The mere fact some people don't want to see him get sliced in two by a giant two handed sword or shot in the face with a hand-canon makes me sick to my damned stomach. As far as I'm concerned, if he doesn't get Karma slapping him in the face so hard it decapitates him by the time the series ends I'm gonna scream.

Joffery.
Motherfucking
Boratheon.

That spoilt kid is such a shit. In the show anyway, I'm guessing he's as much of a **** in the books.

Oh, and for why? Because he's just such a massive ****. Everything he does just raises his cuntiness factor by 5. No matter who he's talking to he's a ****, no matter what he does, he's a ****, and the worst thing is that this massive **** is related to the best character in the series.

[sub][sub]Guess what the word of the day is today, kiddies?[/sub][/sub]

Ah, but you see as deplorable as Joffrey is he has one weakness. TYRION FREAKING LANNISTER! As can be observed here:


and here:


Oh don't get me wrong he's an absolute shithead who deserves to get the full weight of the universe thrown at him as comeuppance but...you can't say the universe doesn't make sure the little Caligula wannabe gets thrown off his high-horse only to fall face-first into horse-shit every once in a while.

 

[Darkmantle]

They feel much more gray than Caesar wiping out towns, raping slaves and treating them like cattle.

exactally...there is no "suneshine and rainbows" option as each one has negatives and pros (I chose an independant vegas, let the people sort themselfves out...as much as I did suport the NCR in alot of ways..thats what I liked..I didn't have to delcare war on the NCR to get my way..though I did piss off that general guy)

there was somone here (ageis ago) who honestly though the legion were the best option...damn that was annoying

just as Im sure alot of people were all suportive of cerberus in ME2.....untill ME3 rolled around

what bioware turned Cerberus and the reapers into for ME3 was just downright infuriating. Pointless power creep really gets on my nerves, especially when it's to arbitrarily raise the stakes. It drove me nuts, and Kai Leng was the worst example of it. I was playing a vanguard and every cutscene he was in I found myself repeating "and now I charge him. And now I charge him? how about now? now?

It's like the cutscenes assume you are going to be a soldier.

 

[Vault101]

what bioware turned Cerberus and the reapers into for ME3 was just downright infuriating. Pointless power creep really gets on my nerves, especially when it's to arbitrarily raise the stakes. It drove me nuts, and Kai Leng was the worst example of it. I was playing a vanguard and every cutscene he was in I found myself repeating "and now I charge him. And now I charge him? how about now? now?

It's like the cutscenes assume you are going to be a soldier.

I dont think cerberus was ever intended to be anything but bad news

now the reapers....

I'm not going to go there

 

[Vault101]

This White haired, backstabbing, ************ right here:

[spoiler/]

[/spoiler]

I don't give a DAMN if he took down a corrupt demon king, this guy's done shit i can never ever forgive.
.

.............he?

and this is why I don't like certain anime styles

 

[Syzygy23]

They feel much more gray than Caesar wiping out towns, raping slaves and treating them like cattle.

exactally...there is no "suneshine and rainbows" option as each one has negatives and pros (I chose an independant vegas, let the people sort themselfves out...as much as I did suport the NCR in alot of ways..thats what I liked..I didn't have to delcare war on the NCR to get my way..though I did piss off that general guy)

there was somone here (ageis ago) who honestly though the legion were the best option...damn that was annoying

just as Im sure alot of people were all suportive of cerberus in ME2.....untill ME3 rolled around

Same, I personally loved Mr House's ideals of Vegas, how he planned to bring humanity to the stars was excellent, I liked the idea of being his lieutenant, to help his dream come to fruition. I wish he and the NCR could have worked together, he didn't even dislike the NCR in any way, he didn't want them taking the city he loved away from him, perfectly justified. The NCR was greedy and while I liked their society, they kept showing little help to the people of the Mojave because they weren't NCR and their greed of trying to take Vegas from it's savior.

Independent is also good but I felt bad taking Vegas away from House. I do like how Yes Man will get an upgrade to making him more assertive and you can fulfill House's ideals yourself.

In fact, I consider House to be the inherently good option, I do believe the Brotherhood is an organization that is no longer needed unless they change, which they won't. I would have had little trouble destroying them if it weren't for poor Veronica...

Yeah, I chose House in the end too. Not because I agreed with him on the whole "Autocrat" thing, but because he was the last remaining man who could create teh technology needed to get humanity to the stars.

That right there is probably the most important thing in the ENTIRE fallout universe. The world is an irradiated mess nearly depleted of all its natural resources. Any sane man should be a supporter of Houses "This-world-is-fucked-let's-find-a-new-one" plan.

 

[Darkmantle]

what bioware turned Cerberus and the reapers into for ME3 was just downright infuriating. Pointless power creep really gets on my nerves, especially when it's to arbitrarily raise the stakes. It drove me nuts, and Kai Leng was the worst example of it. I was playing a vanguard and every cutscene he was in I found myself repeating "and now I charge him. And now I charge him? how about now? now?

It's like the cutscenes assume you are going to be a soldier.

I dont think cerberus was ever intended to be anything but bad news

now the reapers....

I'm not going to go there

Oh I knew they were bad news, what I don't believe is that in 6 months they somehow became a galactic superpower. They only had 100-200 people in Me2, but in ME3 you get waves upon waves upon waves of them. And they have all kinds of cruisers and fighters and space stations. That's what I mean by power creep.

The bad writing begins right at the start too.

[rant]

Spoiler

Remember when you get to mars, one of your squad mates says "only two trucks? the must have had help from the inside". Only two trucks, how many Cerberus troops did you kill in that facility? 50? 100? I lost count. But they somehow showed in a shuttle and two makos.

they did the same thing to the reapers,

Spoiler

a single fleet of human ships defeated a reaper and a geth fleet in ME1, but in ME3 it takes the whole quarian flotilla 3-4 volleys. That's bullshit.

[/rant]

 

[Vault101]

Oh I knew they were bad news, what I don't believe is that in 6 months they somehow became a galactic superpower. They only had 100-200 people in Me2,

huh?..what indicated this?...we are purposfully (us and shepard) kept in the dark about cerberus throughout ME2...all we know is that they operate in secrative "Cells" so theres no way we could even guess at the numbers of personel

the lazerus project, project overlord, the project with jack (albeit in the past)..the plot to take over omega (comics) all happen independantly of one another and its clear those combined require more than 100-200 people

[quote/]but in ME3 you get waves upon waves upon waves of them. And they have all kinds of cruisers and fighters and space stations. That's what I mean by power creep.
[/quote]

if they have rescourced to rebuild the normandy and shepard I'm pretty sure they can get themselfs ships/troops within 6 months...that may not mean building all those ships...but giving alot of ships paintjobs

also (if I'm going to pull some fanwank) mabye Shepard "alledged" involvment with cerberus may have pulled them some well meaning but misguided recruits..mabye even ex alliance...I mean before they went all "crazy and reaperfied"

 

[Vault101]

That right there is probably the most important thing in the ENTIRE fallout universe. The world is an irradiated mess nearly depleted of all its natural resources. Any sane man should be a supporter of Houses "This-world-is-fucked-let's-find-a-new-one" plan.

problem I have with that though is the "little people" are going to be left behined..at least thats the first thing I figured when I heard that

I would say though it seems the Area around Vegas is doing pretty well in Fallout terms

 

[Reaper195]

That one ************ in Vice in LA Noire. Seriously...never hated a character in anything so much before. The moment I got the chance, I ran him over in his own car, failed for killing him. Then did it again. I also always kept leaving him behind whenever I went anywhere.

Joffery.
Motherfucking
Boratheon.

That spoilt kid is such a shit. In the show anyway, I'm guessing he's as much of a **** in the books.

Oh, and for why? Because he's just such a massive ****. Everything he does just raises his cuntiness factor by 5. No matter who he's talking to he's a ****, no matter what he does, he's a ****, and the worst thing is that this massive **** is related to the best character in the series.

[sub][sub]Guess what the word of the day is today, kiddies?[/sub][/sub]

Is it....'He'?

But yeah, Joffery is as such a ****** in the books, even more so since he's featured a lot more. The scene of him stripping Sansa is also a lot longer and violent/naked/abusive. Which is what makes Joffery great. A good character is a character that evokes an incredibly strong feeling inside the reader, irrelevant of the emotion.

But..yeah...he's a ****.

 

[War Penguin]

Caesar's Legion really fucked that up with being the obvious evil villains. Of course if you're not a bad karma character, you will not choose them. But they play a major part that they sort of slow the rest of the story down.

I dont think it messed it up that badly...cesars legion was a common enemy you could gleefully stop the shit out of

and even though I wrote the legion off as an option early..I still had to consider the other 3 (mr house. NCR or independant) and that was a tough call

I also wrote them off early on as an option. However, since so much emphasis was put on them, they felt like a major distraction. Almost all of the people that were from the NCR that I talked to [small](which is a damn large percentage, mind you)[/small] would not shut up about them. I felt like they were the obvious bad guy that you had to take on.

Another thing that bugged me about the Legion was how the conflict seemed to be more about the Legion vs the NCR, rather than Legion vs House vs NCR. Don't get me wrong, I felt bad for killing him when I helped the different factions, but House felt like a distraction if you didn't follow his quest line. Again, if it was more about House and the NCR, the game would have been much more interesting. But the Legion was too much of a distraction with too much emphasis put on them that they sort of ruined that conflict. Like I said, they were the big bad guy you had to face and that choosing any other option was a good option compared to them. If it was just House and NCR [small](and independent if the developers *ahem* played their cards right)[/small], then your choices would feel like there was a major impact and moral dilemma.

 

[Vault101]

would not shut up about them. I felt like they were the obvious bad guy that you had to take on.

Another thing that bugged me about the Legion was how the conflict seemed to be more about the Legion vs the NCR, rather than Legion vs House vs NCR. Don't get me wrong, I felt bad for killing him when I helped the different factions, but House felt like a distraction if you didn't follow his quest line. Again, if it was more about House and the NCR, the game would have been much more interesting. But the Legion was too much of a distraction with too much emphasis put on them that they sort of ruined that conflict. Like I said, they were the big bad guy you had to face and that choosing any other option was a good option compared to them. If it was just House and NCR [small](and independent if the developers *ahem* played their cards right)[/small], then your choices would feel like there was a major impact and moral dilemma.

I think mabye the desicion to kill mr house (for whoever) may come a little early

but I always figured it was "legion vs NCR" and everyone else was kind of getting caught in the crossfire...but yeah

I still felt like there was major impact and moral dilemmas from my choiced..

 

[Darkmantle]

Oh I knew they were bad news, what I don't believe is that in 6 months they somehow became a galactic superpower. They only had 100-200 people in Me2,

huh?..what indicated this?...we are purposfully (us and shepard) kept in the dark about cerberus throughout ME2...all we know is that they operate in secrative "Cells" so theres no way we could even guess at the numbers of personel

the lazerus project, project overlord, the project with jack (albeit in the past)..the plot to take over omega (comics) all happen independantly of one another and its clear those combined require more than 100-200 people

[quote/]but in ME3 you get waves upon waves upon waves of them. And they have all kinds of cruisers and fighters and space stations. That's what I mean by power creep.

if they have rescourced to rebuild the normandy and shepard I'm pretty sure they can get themselfs ships/troops within 6 months...that may not mean building all those ships...but giving alot of ships paintjobs

also (if I'm going to pull some fanwank) mabye Shepard "alledged" involvment with cerberus may have pulled them some well meaning but misguided recruits..mabye even ex alliance...I mean before they went all "crazy and reaperfied"[/quote]

Spoiler

Once Joker breaks EDI's AI restrictions during the collector attacks, you can go back and talk to her again, and she will data mine the cerberus servers for you. She states there are 3 Ceberus cells each made up of 50 people, one cell belonged to miranda. You could argue that ED missed something, or that there was hidden data, but what's the point? Why not just have ED not know? It's a total lack of foreshadowing. Oh, an EDI tells you their yearly income too, which is not nearly high enough to support that many soldiers with that much equipment.

The big problem I have with this is that Cerberus in ME3 is a force that is far more powerful than any government or even the citadel forces. They somehow managed to attack the citadel, capture ALL of Omega, (which is insane enough what with all the mercs there) attack the mars facility, attack several other alliance military installations, take over a refuge camp without anyone knowing, attack a whole colony (killing all it's defenders and suppressing the militia), Assault and nearly destroy a secret STG facility, all at about the same time, within weeks of each other. Too much power in too little time, too little build up, and no foreshadowing. And I know I'm forgetting a few things.

And, no offence intended, but if you have to use fan wank to try and justify the story, it's probably just a bad story. I feel they artificially and ham handedly raised the stakes to try and make a silly appeal to emotion, which seems to have worked. I actually liked the story right up until tuchunka. I could have overlooked the rest, but then it went all down hill for me.

 

[thereverend7]

This White haired, backstabbing, ************ right here:

YES. So many villains I actually really like as characters, but this guy was above and beyond, easily the worst villain i've seen, to the point that you don't like hating them (Like Vicous in Cowboy Bebop, you know he's a bad guy, but come on, he's got a sword and crow. or raven? some bird.) You just HAAAAAAAAAATE them. That final scene of the Berserk Anime had me staring at my screen, mouth open, sick to my stomach. I really should read the manga and find out what happens at some point...