All this talk about artistic integrity...

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zinho73

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When I see some journalists running to defend Bioware that the ending should not be changed because of artistic integrity and all this, I wonder if they have thought things through.

1. First, let´s talk about integrity. Bioware lied to me when they said they would not pull up a "Lost" with the endings. They have explicitly said that all questions would be answered. That's really not the case here - all there is to the endings is speculation. We don't even know who is dead or alive in our squad.

2. Second, I think its fun to talk about artistic integrity in a game in which the face of one the main characters is a rushed photoshop job. A game is a product, and every consumer has the right to evaluate the product that he/she is buying, eventually demanding reparation if the product is bad in anyway or their money back.

3. Granted, the definition of "bad" can be subjective, but the ultimate judge in this case has to be the company that produced the game - Bioware. They have to evaluate what their consumers are telling to them under the context that only them can provide. People are saying, for example, that the endings were rushed. Were they? Only Bioware knows. I work with art and sometimes my clients or my editor make criticisms that are valid, I have no problems to adjust my work to make it better. Hell, Bioware has been jumping all kinds of hoops to make ME appeal to a more mass market, to sell more DLC, etc. They say that they are changing all the time because of consumer feedback. They said that they built the game with the community. Well, this petitions and demands are just more feedback. People are not invading the studios, They are saying: "This product you sold to me does not look like what you said it was - can you do something about it?"

You, journalist, can and should report what is happening, but blindly defending Bioware artistic integrity is just missing the point. People are not trying to destroy the artistic vision of anyone - they are interacting with a company that said that this kind of interaction is welcome (the child's play petition is running on the Bioware foruns!)

4. This is interactive media - not a book or a movie. Mass Effect 1 had different endings (or outcomes), Bioware chose 1 to be canon and people had fun with the others. ME2 was the same thing, hell , Shepard could have died and the story would have ended on 2. Beside that, DLC of all kind added to the history. To "change" the ending, Bioware does not need to erase what they already did, they can complement that in several different ways, without any sort of butchering.

5. The thing that characterizes interactive media (including digital art) is change. Graphics are updated, patches are uploaded, additional quests and options are added. This is a different kind of art, with a very different kind of rules. Bioware can say that it's ok and expand on the ending (like they did when they brought Liara to ME2, hearing the fans) or they can say no (like when people asked to remove gay romances). Either way is fine. This is really not a big deal and it is not a crisis of artisitc integrity. It is a case of a company offering a bad product in the eyes of a lot of its costumers.
 

Kahunaburger

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More to the point, no artistic work is sacrosanct or immune to criticism and improvement. This idea should not come as a surprise, as it almost definitely predates writing.
 

Fr]anc[is

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You've gotta remember that it's not in some sites best interest to speak out against the big dogs, and others are just nerd baiting to get more hits. The rest are probably even more sick of hearing about the whole mess than everyone else.
 

Lucem712

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Sometimes, it feels like all the major gaming networks are trying to defend Bioware like it's a little school girl that entered it's artwork in a big people art competition. Why? Bioware is a big boy now, he can defend his own actions.

At this point, it's not even about the endings anymore (really), it's about the fact that a company upset its userbase and everyone is playing it off as 'gamer entitlement', as if gamers aren't entitled to an enjoyable experience.

Users, no matter how loud they yell, can never make a company do something. But, they sure as hell have the right to yell.
 

Smooth Operator

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"Journalists defending Bioware"
There is a joke for the ages, those people are as much journalists as I am a terminator, they have less integrity then a photoshop paparazzi.
What you are looking at there are gamers payed to write some shit once a week, and if say EA rings them up and asks they sing their good praises for a shinny penny they will do that too, and the more controversial the better their paycheck because it brings in the raging masses that create ad revenue.

Anyone taking these people seriously is the thing worth discussing.
 

xPixelatedx

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If they are going to use 'artistic integrity' as a defense, then I will now use that to defend E.T. for the Atari :D

Speaking of art, lets look at the integrity of this image:


Quite a stunning piece if I do say so myself.
 

Sexy Devil

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xPixelatedx said:
If they are going to use 'artistic integrity' as a defense, then I will now use that to defend E.T. for the Atari :D

Speaking of art, lets look at the integrity of this image:


Quite a stunning piece if I do say so myself.
Well at least it has symmetry going for it! That diagram does seem to forget that Shepard can die in ME2 though.

Anyway, the journalists who are defending it are generally stuck so far up Bioware's ass that they're starting to see daylight. It's fine if they don't want it changed, but the ending is just objectively bad and to justify it they attach attach meaning that isn't there.
 

Savagezion

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You can't claim "artistic integrity" on a product that announces they are "trying to appeal to a wider audience." It does not stand. People really are dumb sometimes.
 

dreadedcandiru99

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zinho73 said:
...the ending should not be changed because of artistic integrity...
I've seen this loads of times, myself. I posted this the other day, but according to the California Literary Review [http://calitreview.com/24673], the ME3 ending fails on artistic grounds, too. A few points regarding the ending in particular:

--Reuse of art assets indicate that it was rushed
--The "underthought, overpretentious" dialogue creates significant plot holes
--Key themes of the series are disregarded
--The symbolism doesn't make sense ("If you have to ask what it symbolizes, it didn't.")
--"The inability to convey intent is the definition of failed art."

Bioware's actually pretty lucky: most artists don't get a second chance to fix mistakes like this.
 

Mike Richards

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Why is it that no one seems to be able to simply accept that they weren't happy with it and move on. Story-telling isn't a democracy, if you liked it then good for you, if not then sorry things didn't work out.

With a series like this no matter how they ended it people would have gotten pissed off. Nothing they could have done would have ever pleased everyone.
 

BloatedGuppy

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dreadedcandiru99 said:
I've seen this loads of times, myself. I posted this the other day, but according to the California Literary Review [http://calitreview.com/24673], the ME3 ending fails on artistic grounds, too. A few points regarding the ending in particular:

--Reuse of art assets indicate that it was rushed
--The "underthought, overpretentious" dialogue creates significant plot holes
--Key themes of the series are disregarded
--The symbolism doesn't make sense ("If you have to ask what it symbolizes, it didn't.")
--"The inability to convey intent is the definition of failed art."

Bioware's actually pretty lucky: most artists don't get a second chance to fix mistakes like this.
Good article. I'd not read that one before.

Normally, I?d find it wrong to support consumer demand altering authorial intent just to fit the vociferous opinion. Except in this case, the authors simply aren?t justified by the ?statement? made. Aside from being a hackneyed mess of bad ideas running counter to everything this series has stood for, the sheer tonal shift prevents absorption for someone paying attention ? the inability to convey intent is the definition of failed art.

For anyone with perspective, I know I?m belaboring a point ? a bad ending can ruin all, from prose to play ? but the sad fact is: no other professional review of Mass Effect 3 factored this ending into their universally positive ratings for the game, even though many acknowledged it as a problem. Not being one to claim conspiracy is to blame, I?d rather point to the more obvious culprit: ineptitude. A critic that can?t realize that narrative is often as important as gameplay ? especially in an RPG ? and that poorly constructed endings tarnish narrative quality ? especially as it is the last thing the audience sees ? is a poor critic indeed.

The gestalt of Mass Effect 3 is an end unjustified by its means, unworthy of defense. During its final moments it commits storytelling suicide, and the taste of decay it leaves in the mouth cripples the otherwise impeccable quality of what came before, poisoning even nostalgia against it.
 

zefiris

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Sherlock Holmes.

Doyle kept the character dead for ten years, while being hammered with requests to revive him.
He then did, and produced more classics.

If everyone had respected "artistic integrity" and not asked for a change, many great pieces of literature would never have happened.


Asking an artist to change something is NOT violating their integrity. An editor asks artists to change their vision ALL THE TIME. It's a GOOD THING. See Rice with her vampire novels how ARTISTIC INTEGRITY OVER ALL turns out.

Spoiler: Badly, in the end.

Yes, I know, girl novels, so you guys won't know em, but the example is still good.
 

Fappy

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xPixelatedx said:
If they are going to use 'artistic integrity' as a defense, then I will now use that to defend E.T. for the Atari :D

Speaking of art, lets look at the integrity of this image:


Quite a stunning piece if I do say so myself.
Oh god this makes me frown :(
 

zinho73

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Feb 3, 2011
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Mike Richards said:
Why is it that no one seems to be able to simply accept that they weren't happy with it and move on. Story-telling isn't a democracy, if you liked it then good for you, if not then sorry things didn't work out.

With a series like this no matter how they ended it people would have gotten pissed off. Nothing they could have done would have ever pleased everyone.
But I guess people are moving on. Their not seated on their arses lamenting the ending.
Their making themselves heard, they are donating to charity, they are challenging game journalists that can't get their story straight, they are alerting the community that lies were told by the developer, they are making clear their intent to not buy EA products anymore.

People are reacting to something they perceive is bad. IN the end it is as I said in the post: Bioware, we consider that you made a product that it is not worth the money I paid or the time I invested - can you do something about it?

This is not about democracy at all, it is about capitalism.
 

Mike Richards

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zinho73 said:
Mike Richards said:
Why is it that no one seems to be able to simply accept that they weren't happy with it and move on. Story-telling isn't a democracy, if you liked it then good for you, if not then sorry things didn't work out.

With a series like this no matter how they ended it people would have gotten pissed off. Nothing they could have done would have ever pleased everyone.
But I guess people are moving on. Their not seated on their arses lamenting the ending.
Their making themselves heard, they are donating to charity, they are challenging game journalists that can't get their story straight, they are alerting the community that lies were told by the developer, they are making clear their intent to not buy EA products anymore.

People are reacting to something they perceive is bad. IN the end it is as I said in the post: Bioware, we consider that you made a product that it is not worth the money I paid or the time I invested - can you do something about it?

This is not about democracy at all, it is about capitalism.
Yeah, in principle I can accept that, obviously there's nothing wrong with having an opinion about something good or bad. The problem with the firestorm that's erupted around it is how subjective it is. Lots of people don't have a problem with the ending, lots of people don't feel they were lied too.

As I said in my first post any time a series this large reaches its end that ending will inevitably anger or disappoint a group of fans. It happened with Lost, Battlestar Galactica, Harry Potter (All of whose endings I did actually like as a sidenote), and because of that I'm more likely to side with the creators then any one group of fans. Pretty much as long as it ended the way they wanted I can live with it even if its not what I would have done, cause in the end its up to them and them alone.

Obviously there's a rather large difference in price between going to a movie and buying a game, but if you decide to go see a movie and up disappointed by it most people don't ask for their money back or request the movie be changed. And even when test audiences do change things it isn't always for the better, see what happened to the ending of I am Legend.

It's a complex situation with no clear solution, and the only sure thing is that no matter what anyone does about it someone will always be unhappy.