Alleged harassment, threats of doxxing, hitpiece journalism, 'fake' gamer girls... Oh my!

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

No doubt about it. But in the world of gaming, the gap between "dedicated" and "casual" is minuscule compared to the one in actual sports. Being good at a game simply isn't that amazing. The game determines what you can and cannot do, you just need to discover the limit. In sports, the idea is that athletes are continuously pushing the limits of their skill.

Mastering a game is easier than an actual sport. It doesn't require as much time or effort. They're written in such a way that anybody can do it. It's right there in the code. I can boot a game I've never played before, go on to a public server and beat people who're technically better than me, who've been playing the same game for years. But I can't go on to a a boxing ring and land a single punch against anyone who actually knows how to fight.

Also to this day people have to be asked to stop putting their scrotums into opponents' mouths. What the fuck.

It's not minuscule at all. People get better and pushes their limits in pro-gaming as well, other sports determines what you can and cannot do, too.

No not anyone can master a game and no not anyone can be the next HeatoN or the next JW. Some people are just not as good as others and never will be, if you can beat someone who's been playing a game for years in your first game then they never were that good at the game and that's why they're playing pub-games. How are they technically better than you if you can win against them? Because they've played longer than you? Because they have better stats in public games?

And I can guarantee you that I could beat someone who never played a video game before too without him winning a round.

They're not putting their scrotum in other peoples mouths, they are crouching up and down over a dead body in a VIDEO GAME. Oh this guy just sawed you in half but him crouching over you is crossing the line alright.

No Trojan objected to the death of Hector at the hands of Achillies. On the other hand they were plenty pissed off about his attempted desecration of Hector?s corpse.

 

[Schadrach]

I wanted to quote McElroy but I can't.

Did someone actually state that Bullying is a plausible method for social change? One to actually be used? Really?

Pretty much. Though I don't know why that's surprising, it brings back visions of 2014 and Sam Biddle writing "nerds should be constantly shamed and degraded into submission" followed with "Bring Back Bullying." That was back when he worked for Gawker, and it cost them Adobe as a sponsor.

If Silentpony is correct that Punisher was considered an average and run-of-the-mill gamer to be overlooked by Professional Teams as a Guy, but stellar enough playing the same way as a female to be scouted for a professional team, this is will be considered a tactical advantage akin to discovering Gun Powder for the Anti-SJW group.

And that's bad. That would be really, really bad. It is my fear that this would be worse than Gamergate simply because in their minds, they will have tangible proof that their best efforts will mean nothing for them simply for being a guy. With their persecution complex, That will be igniting that Gun Powder I previously spoke of.

There was already similar anti-SJW gunpowder in publishing, in which a guy tried to publish a poem repeatedly to no success, until he switched to an Asian-sounding pseudonym and got more or less immediately published. There was also a vegan food blog with a fantastic potato salad recipe that was a wonderful thing when (despite being anonymous) it was perceived to have black writers based on writing style -- when it turned out they were white it became a "problem."

Think you can get in just by aceing the sat? Nah, you need extracurriculars, and club leaderships, and special skills

"Special skills" like being assumed to have a vagina, apparently.

So yeah, a rare girl being scouted for a team before a dude is a logical outcome of this situation.

Remember, not giving women preferential treatment on the basis of sex is sexism, and we're after *equality* which is a lack of sexism!

And nothing is more dangerous than men realizing they aren't special.

Yep, they're not special, unlike women who are similarly capable...wait...that can't be right...

Given that it wasn't a week after a female was introduced into the enclosure that men started threatening to doxx them, i would say it's yet another pin in the obvious "competitive game is a pit of toxicity and misogyny" board

How dare people think something is up when there's a bunch of soft evidence that something isn't quite right...

I mean, most dudes are aware women are treated different on the internet, and can still be surprised at the amount of harassment and doxxing they end up getting.

Yeah, and then they look at the actual research, which suggests that men actually receive slightly more online harassment on the whole, but less of a sexual nature. Women do however consider it more important whenever they do receive harassment of any form. Pew did a 2017 survey on the topic, Google is your friend.

Hell, I'd once received death threats for arguing a moderately obscure point about WoW class balance on their official forums (it amounted to arguing that one spec needed to be fixed DPS-wise before or simultaneous to equalizing two buffs because having the superior version of that one buff was the only reason the one spec saw play in raids among top tier guilds while the other spec was receiving raid slots despite having the inferior version of the buff). Apparently Shaman players are right assholes.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Never understood why immature insults are supposed to be part of competitive online gaming.

They certainly were not part of any online gaming activity or community i ever took part in. But then i don't do shooters which is, as i understood, at least where this teabagging nonsense comes from.

Oh come on, are people seriously offended by teabagging? Jesus Christ.

No, but it is fucking tacky

Who cares? People taunt each other in literally every sport ALL THE TIME. No one cares, the players don't care, the viewers don't care. This is the first time I've ever heard people having such big issues with teabagging.

We aren't going to see Esports at the olympics until we're sure one of the competitors isn't chomping at the bit to scream slurs or teabag an opponent in front of a worldwide audience.

Pretty sure there're a thousand more reasons why we're not going to see Esports at the Olympics any time soon.

I mean is it even fair to call gaming a sport?

Nah.
Sports measure skill between opponents. People dedicate entire lives to hone them.
Competitive games require some skill for sure but it doesn't take long to develop it. There's never been a single multiplayer game where I don't luck out in the first couple of tries and kill a maxed-out player who's been at it for weeks/months/years.
(Which cues the nasty messages)

Just because you killed someone who's been at it for ''weeks/months/years'' in a pub game doesn't mean anything, play against someone who's actually made it to the pro-circuits and you'll see what a night and day difference it is. People dedicate their lives to these games as well, playing one certain game for at least 8 hours a day and getting better and better, to say it doesn't take long to develop a real skill for a game is bs.

How can you dedicate your life to a game that's only been around for a few years?
Pro-gamers weren't practicing Overwatch 10 years ago, they were playing Magic the Gathering and watching the Dark Knight.
and in 2 or 3 years there will be another FPS game that 'pro-gamers' would have spent their whole lives training with.

For an example, there is plenty of CSGO pro's today that played CS1.6 15 years ago. You don't know what these players did 10 years ago, just because some pros are playing a game released 3 years ago doesn't mean they've never touched a FPS before or that they won't be playing for 10 more years whether it's the same game or different but similar one. These people play these games like it's their full time jobs (And then some) and then there are plenty of moments where they go to tournaments and spend 80% of their time practicing/competing, and you don't call that dedicating their lives?

Never understood why immature insults are supposed to be part of competitive online gaming.

They certainly were not part of any online gaming activity or community i ever took part in. But then i don't do shooters which is, as i understood, at least where this teabagging nonsense comes from.

Oh come on, are people seriously offended by teabagging? Jesus Christ.

I mean, as a taunt that supposed to tilt your opponent..isn't offending the point?

are we now surprised offending taunts are offensive? are we that defensive about this?

this is the final hill?

teabagging?

It's to throw them off their game, just like in every sport. Being teabagged is a minor annoyance, being taunted is a minor annoyance. Are we suggesting making taunting punishable because there might be 1 guy out there who's so thin skinned he's mentally scarred by being teabagged?

No one is offended by seeing grown people embarrass themselves like spoilt toddlers, they're only drawing pity and disappointment.

Then let them, I'm sure they'll survive without those people who never had an interest in esport and never will in the first place.

You guys act like this is something exclusive to esport, have you guys ever participated or watched any other sports ever?

Somehow I have trouble seeing Muhammad Ali rubbing his balls on George Foreman?s head as part of his triumph. Or Donald Bradman doing the same to his opponents. Or Roger Federer, or Stefi Graf etc do you see where I?m leading with this?

 

[McElroy]

Somehow I have trouble seeing Muhammad Ali rubbing his balls on George Foreman?s head as part of his triumph. Or Donald Bradman doing the same to his opponents. Or Roger Federer, or Stefi Graf etc do you see where I?m leading with this?

Steffi, will you marry me?

You can play around with your digital avatars in games. One of the draws of esports is that you can do the same things the pros do if you just practice along a YouTube video. And that includes silly taunts like teabagging.

All I'm saying is that it's a Red Herring. Teabagging or other in-game taunts are not a factor in growing or maintaining a pro-gaming audience.

 

[Mcgeezaks]

Somehow I have trouble seeing Muhammad Ali rubbing his balls on George Foreman?s head as part of his triumph. Or Donald Bradman doing the same to his opponents. Or Roger Federer, or Stefi Graf etc do you see where I?m leading with this?

One is an action in a video game and the other is an action in real life. Players or viewers don't care all that much about tbagging, certainly not nearly to the degree to make it punishable.

So no, I don't see where you're leading with this.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Somehow I have trouble seeing Muhammad Ali rubbing his balls on George Foreman?s head as part of his triumph. Or Donald Bradman doing the same to his opponents. Or Roger Federer, or Stefi Graf etc do you see where I?m leading with this?

One is an action in a video game and the other is an action in real life. Players or viewers don't care all that much about getting tbagging, certainly not nearly to the degree to make it punishable.

So no, I don't see where you're leading with this.

If eSports players want the prestige of existing sportsman at comparable level, they should display the sportsmanship expected of those same athletes. Mind it will be a cold day in the hottest of hells before I give any jumped up pro-Tekken or Street Fighter player the same respect I?d afford any Shodan.

Mind this only for actual eSports events; I could give a tinker?s cuss what stupid shit people get up to in private LAN or Internet matches because that?s the equivalent of the backyard match and thus expectations are lower and you?re not answerable to anyone but your own mates.

 

[Mcgeezaks]

Somehow I have trouble seeing Muhammad Ali rubbing his balls on George Foreman?s head as part of his triumph. Or Donald Bradman doing the same to his opponents. Or Roger Federer, or Stefi Graf etc do you see where I?m leading with this?

One is an action in a video game and the other is an action in real life. Players or viewers don't care all that much about getting tbagging, certainly not nearly to the degree to make it punishable.

So no, I don't see where you're leading with this.

If eSports players want the prestige of existing sportsman at comparable level, they should display the sportsmanship expected of those same athletes. Mind it will be a cold day in the hottest of hells before I give any jumped up pro-Tekken or Street Fighter player the same respect I?d afford any Shodan.

Mind this only for actual eSports events; I could give a tinker?s cuss what stupid shit people get up to in private LAN or Internet matches because that?s the equivalent of the backyard match and thus expectations are lower and you?re not answerable to anyone but your own mates.

Tbagging is just a fun and trivial thing to do in a video game, if that one thing keeps anyone from respecting a player then screw them, they clearly don't understand and never will. If the one teabagging, the one getting teabagged and the people who are watching the tbagging doesn't care, why should you care even in the slightest? It's not a big deal for anyone involved, it's just an easy way to taunt in video games. Athletes taunt each other all the time in every sport, in video games it's obviously going to be very different because you can't control your character very well so there aren't a lot of options usually.

Esports don't need the ''respect'' from people who have no clue about gaming culture though, either you get it or you don't, you can't expect everyone to enjoy the culture of a sport/game.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Somehow I have trouble seeing Muhammad Ali rubbing his balls on George Foreman?s head as part of his triumph. Or Donald Bradman doing the same to his opponents. Or Roger Federer, or Stefi Graf etc do you see where I?m leading with this?

One is an action in a video game and the other is an action in real life. Players or viewers don't care all that much about getting tbagging, certainly not nearly to the degree to make it punishable.

So no, I don't see where you're leading with this.

If eSports players want the prestige of existing sportsman at comparable level, they should display the sportsmanship expected of those same athletes. Mind it will be a cold day in the hottest of hells before I give any jumped up pro-Tekken or Street Fighter player the same respect I?d afford any Shodan.

Mind this only for actual eSports events; I could give a tinker?s cuss what stupid shit people get up to in private LAN or Internet matches because that?s the equivalent of the backyard match and thus expectations are lower and you?re not answerable to anyone but your own mates.

Tbagging is just a fun and trivial thing to do in a video game, if that one thing keeps anyone from respecting a player then screw them, they clearly don't understand and never will. If the one teabagging, the one getting teabagged and the people who are watching the tbagging doesn't care, why should you care even in the slightest? It's not a big deal for anyone involved, it's just an easy way to taunt in video games. Athletes taunt each other all the time in every sport, in video games it's obviously going to be very different because you can't control your character very well so there aren't a lot of options usually.

Esports don't need the ''respect'' from people who have no clue about gaming culture though, either you get it or you don't, you can't expect everyone to enjoy the culture of a sport/game.

Sunflower I cut my teeth on CS1.6, Quake and Soldier of Fortune. I get why people tbag players: I just think it?s fucking tacky and crass. I get gaming culture, though sometimes I wish I didn?t. Like I said, this criticism is restricted to pro-level eSports events only. What you do on your private matches is up to you. But Leagues have rules; they have umpires and they have standards of behaviour and any athlete ignores them at their peril.

 

[Mcgeezaks]

Somehow I have trouble seeing Muhammad Ali rubbing his balls on George Foreman?s head as part of his triumph. Or Donald Bradman doing the same to his opponents. Or Roger Federer, or Stefi Graf etc do you see where I?m leading with this?

One is an action in a video game and the other is an action in real life. Players or viewers don't care all that much about getting tbagging, certainly not nearly to the degree to make it punishable.

So no, I don't see where you're leading with this.

If eSports players want the prestige of existing sportsman at comparable level, they should display the sportsmanship expected of those same athletes. Mind it will be a cold day in the hottest of hells before I give any jumped up pro-Tekken or Street Fighter player the same respect I?d afford any Shodan.

Mind this only for actual eSports events; I could give a tinker?s cuss what stupid shit people get up to in private LAN or Internet matches because that?s the equivalent of the backyard match and thus expectations are lower and you?re not answerable to anyone but your own mates.

Tbagging is just a fun and trivial thing to do in a video game, if that one thing keeps anyone from respecting a player then screw them, they clearly don't understand and never will. If the one teabagging, the one getting teabagged and the people who are watching the tbagging doesn't care, why should you care even in the slightest? It's not a big deal for anyone involved, it's just an easy way to taunt in video games. Athletes taunt each other all the time in every sport, in video games it's obviously going to be very different because you can't control your character very well so there aren't a lot of options usually.

Esports don't need the ''respect'' from people who have no clue about gaming culture though, either you get it or you don't, you can't expect everyone to enjoy the culture of a sport/game.

Sunflower I cut my teeth on CS1.6, Quake and Soldier of Fortune. I get why people tbag players: I just think it?s fucking tacky and crass. I get gaming culture, though sometimes I wish I didn?t. Like I said, this criticism is restricted to pro-level eSports events only. What you do on your private matches is up to you. But Leagues have rules; they have umpires and they have standards of behaviour and any athlete ignores them at their peril.

Tbagging doesn't happen enough in esport to be a real problem though, when I was watching CSGO I never once saw a player tbag another player, not that I can recall anyway. I'm sure it happens but it's not an epidemic that needs to be dealt with, maybe if it happened frequently I could maybe agree that it's a problem. As of now it's just barely a thing in esports but when it happens it's just to poke fun at you opponents with no hard feelings between them.

I think if games gave players more options to express themselves through emotes (Like in Fortnite) tbagging would be non-existant.

 

[RaikuFA]

When it rains it pours doesn?t it Blizzard?

https://gamedaily.biz/article/497/former-blizzard-employee-pens-post-alleging-racism-and-abuse

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

When it rains it pours doesn?t it Blizzard?

https://gamedaily.biz/article/497/former-blizzard-employee-pens-post-alleging-racism-and-abuse

Well if its true I hope he gets any compensation owed.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

That's an interesting situation. Apparently this guy was berated for being stereotypically "macho" in an ethnic sense by a female human. And people are calling that racist. Interesting. I didn't know that was possible. I wonder why you wouldn't call it sexist to berate someone for behaving in a masculine way. At least the guy wasn't white or people wouldn't have cared half as much.

 

[WindKnight]

That's an interesting situation. Apparently this guy was berated for being stereotypically "macho" in an ethnic sense by a female human. And people are calling that racist. Interesting. I didn't know that was possible. I wonder why you wouldn't call it sexist to berate someone for behaving in a masculine way. At least the guy wasn't white or people wouldn't have cared half as much.

Because she was expecting him to be 'macho' and 'aggressive' because he was Mexican. There was a specifica racial component to her actions and 'jokes'.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

That's an interesting situation. Apparently this guy was berated for being stereotypically "macho" in an ethnic sense by a female human. And people are calling that racist. Interesting. I didn't know that was possible. I wonder why you wouldn't call it sexist to berate someone for behaving in a masculine way. At least the guy wasn't white or people wouldn't have cared half as much.

Because she was expecting him to be 'macho' and 'aggressive' because he was Mexican. There was a specifica racial component to her actions and 'jokes'.

The issue is that by treating "being macho" as a social ill similar to whatever other negative stereotypes about other groups are out there such as black people being more prone to crime or Asians being bad drivers you are in effect equating the natural way of being of an entire sex to crime or incompetence.

Basically, to me this is more racially sexist than racistly gendered.

 

[WindKnight]

That's an interesting situation. Apparently this guy was berated for being stereotypically "macho" in an ethnic sense by a female human. And people are calling that racist. Interesting. I didn't know that was possible. I wonder why you wouldn't call it sexist to berate someone for behaving in a masculine way. At least the guy wasn't white or people wouldn't have cared half as much.

Because she was expecting him to be 'macho' and 'aggressive' because he was Mexican. There was a specifica racial component to her actions and 'jokes'.

The issue is that by treating "being macho" as a social ill similar to whatever other negative stereotypes about other groups are out there such as black people being more prone to crime or Asians being bad drivers you are in effect equating the natural way of being of an entire sex to crime or incompetence.

Basically, to me this is more racially sexist than racistly gendered.

And yet, she only accused/abused the MEXICAN co-worker. The other dude on the team was white, so she did not accuse him of being macho or aggressive, she only went after the MEXICAN because to her the stereotype was MEXICAN men being aggressive and macho.

RACE came first, not sex.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

That's an interesting situation. Apparently this guy was berated for being stereotypically "macho" in an ethnic sense by a female human. And people are calling that racist. Interesting. I didn't know that was possible. I wonder why you wouldn't call it sexist to berate someone for behaving in a masculine way. At least the guy wasn't white or people wouldn't have cared half as much.

Because she was expecting him to be 'macho' and 'aggressive' because he was Mexican. There was a specifica racial component to her actions and 'jokes'.

The issue is that by treating "being macho" as a social ill similar to whatever other negative stereotypes about other groups are out there such as black people being more prone to crime or Asians being bad drivers you are in effect equating the natural way of being of an entire sex to crime or incompetence.

Basically, to me this is more racially sexist than racistly gendered.

And yet, she only accused/abused the MEXICAN co-worker. The other dude on the team was white, so she did not accuse him of being macho or aggressive, she only went after the MEXICAN because to her the stereotype was MEXICAN men being aggressive and macho.

RACE came first, not sex.

That's a jump in logic. We don't really know why she didn't accuse the other guy. Maybe he was really effeminate or something. Who knows. Either way, if being macho isn't a social ill then the accusation ought to have no weight to it so if one is trying to belittle someone they are at least treating the accusation as though it's a bad thing.

 

[WindKnight]

That's a jump in logic. We don't really know why she didn't accuse the other guy. Maybe he was really effeminate or something. Who knows. Either way, if being macho isn't a social ill then the accusation ought to have no weight to it so if one is trying to belittle someone they are at least treating the accusation as though it's a bad thing.

Macho is 'masculine in an overly assertive or aggressive way'. That sounds pretty negative outside of specific situations or mindsets that probably would be better served by other more calmer and clear headed mindsets in the first place. There's a reason why we say 'macho douchebag' as an insult.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

That's a jump in logic. We don't really know why she didn't accuse the other guy. Maybe he was really effeminate or something. Who knows. Either way, if being macho isn't a social ill then the accusation ought to have no weight to it so if one is trying to belittle someone they are at least treating the accusation as though it's a bad thing.

Macho is 'masculine in an overly assertive or aggressive way'. That sounds pretty negative outside of specific situations or mindsets that probably would be better served by other more calmer and clear headed mindsets in the first place. There's a reason why we say 'macho douchebag' as an insult.

I think you defeated your own point here.

If macho is a bad thing, you don't need to add a thing to it that indicates the person is a bad specimen of macho. If the saying is "macho douchebag" then merely being macho does not one a douchebag make.


And no to me that stuff isn't really what I associate with being macho. It's more about stuff like athleticism and physicality in simple terms. Macho people are more in tune with their natural side and less with their intellectual one. There's this conventional wisdom about balance and how it's not good to lean too much towards either side, the opposite of being macho being something along the lines of having utterly sublimated those physical tendencies into other interests and activities, but I don't think this expectation of balance is very realistic and it ends up pathologizing a whole lot of normally varying people.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

We aren't going to see Esports at the olympics until we're sure one of the competitors isn't chomping at the bit to scream slurs or teabag an opponent in front of a worldwide audience.

Pretty sure there're a thousand more reasons why we're not going to see Esports at the Olympics any time soon.

That being said, teabagging in front of a live audience of billion people, would be a sight to behold. Damn, now i'm a bit sad.

And then you'll have to explain to your non-gaming friends and family what he's doing, and then having them wondering if you do that, and if you do, wondering 'what the hell is wrong with you'.

I'd 'explain' it by saying "Beats me. It's just what those shooter people do.".
And i'd be relieved if wondering if i "do that weird stuff in videogames" is the worst my family would think of me.

 

[MrCalavera_v1legacy]

That's a jump in logic. We don't really know why she didn't accuse the other guy. Maybe he was really effeminate or something. Who knows. Either way, if being macho isn't a social ill then the accusation ought to have no weight to it so if one is trying to belittle someone they are at least treating the accusation as though it's a bad thing.

Macho is 'masculine in an overly assertive or aggressive way'. That sounds pretty negative outside of specific situations or mindsets that probably would be better served by other more calmer and clear headed mindsets in the first place. There's a reason why we say 'macho douchebag' as an insult.

I think you defeated your own point here.

If macho is a bad thing, you don't need to add a thing to it that indicates the person is a bad specimen of macho. If the saying is "macho douchebag" then merely being macho does not one a douchebag make.

So i guess "asshole" isn't an insult either. Because people keep saying "stupid asshole" all the time.

And no to me that stuff isn't really what I associate with being macho. It's more about stuff like athleticism and physicality in simple terms. Macho people are more in tune with their natural side and less with their intellectual one. There's this conventional wisdom about balance and how it's not good to lean too much towards either side, the opposite of being macho being something along the lines of having utterly sublimated those physical tendencies into other interests and activities, but I don't think this expectation of balance is very realistic and it ends up pathologizing a whole lot of normally varying people.

I think you might be conflating widely understood masculinity with 'machismo' here. Those aren't necesirally the same things.
And the guy explains in detail in his twitlonger what happened. It wasn't merely being called "macho".