Alright people let's create the ULTIMATE Game Engine!

Recommended Videos

ElArabDeMagnifico

New member
Dec 20, 2007
3,775
0
0
What we are about to do is similar to what dog breeders do, they make a bunch of things have sex and see if they can then get a dog that kills badgers. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachshund]

What we are going to do is make game engines have sex, and see if we can get the ultimate most immersive game engine ever, so good that tech demos alone can be passed off as full games (please refrain from Crysis and GTAIV jokes). Development costs are just too expensive because there aren't enough engines doing all the work for you, everyone at those studios just seem to be typing ones and zeros all day - making mistakes and trying to fix them - over and over, so lets find out which engines should sex it up and see if we can take a huge burden off their shoulders, and maybe a burden off our wallets.

I did find this thread [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.67212#591113] when I searched but I want to try and get a little more detailed, see if there really is tech out there to achieve the "ultimate" engine - also, please list why you chose your choice, instead of just listing - cuz this will get locked otherwise. A link for the "hard to describe" things are helpful, but those links are also "hard to find" so it's excusable.

Alter Ego [http://www.gametrailers.com/player/38046.html] for the facial animation of characters - hell I don't even know if we can get any better than this.

Natural Motion Euphoria [http://www.naturalmotion.com/euphoria.htm] - for realistic character reactions. (Yet for some reason it's only licensed to R* and LucasArts right now)

Cryengine2 simply for it's graphics, lighting, physics and area/map size (it's not like you can't add cell shading or anything to it for those games that you don't want to be photorealistic anyway).

AiLive's "LiveMove2" [http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53944] - for those motion sensing games - mainly for the Wii, don't know what SixaxiS uses but flying a Warhawk with one (is too much work) is responsive enough.

id's Tech5 "accessibility" (only demos of this I can find are on fileshack, for download) - making it easier to make games, but not sacrificing any quality. It's easier to use than most free Map Makers out there.

Relic's Essence Engine's Destructable Environments, Bad Company and Crysis really have nothing on the Essence Engine for destructable environments.

That's all I have for now, if this thread gets any attention then I'm sure we'll get some good suggestions and I'll edit the first post and to the list, and then we can figure out what to name the thing.

FarCry2's "Dunia" engine seems impressive but can't say much till the game comes out.
 

The Wooster

King Snap
Jul 15, 2008
15,305
0
0
Fuck map size. Bring in the gas powered Engine from Dungeon Siege. No loading screens or anything, a huge streaming world.
 

meatloaf231

Old Man Glenn
Feb 13, 2008
2,248
0
0
Decoy Doctorpus said:
Fuck map size. Bring in the gas powered Engine from Dungeon Siege. No loading screens or anything, a huge streaming world.
We could all use more huge worlds with no loading screens.
 

L4Y Duke

New member
Nov 24, 2007
1,085
0
0
Source with Swarm.

All the beauty of the Source engine, only it runs perfectly even when there's 200+ enemies onscreen at the same time.
 

Fenixius

New member
Feb 5, 2007
448
0
0
Dance The Revolution said:
Is there some software to make things easier to create on the big bad Ps3?
At the risk of sparking a consolewar riot, I'm going to say that it's the fault of the arcane engine they built inside the dark shell that it's difficult to create optimal games. If anyone wants to respond to that comment to tell me how little I know of the majesty of the PS3, please do so via private message, as I don't want to be called the ruiner of this thread.

If we're making an RTS, I demand that we include fullscale zoom in the vein of Supreme Commander or Black and White II. There is no cleaner, more intuitive way to move around a map than that, that I've ever seen. I don't know off the top of my head the engine of either of those games, but damn, it's such a nice feature. I tried to play Dawn of War and Command and Conquer after playing Supreme Commander, and I just felt like I couldn't move properly.

Oh, and mentioning Command and Conquer reminds me: Do not let any part of the Generals/Tiberium Wars/Red Alert engine into our beautiful Uberengine. EA seriously don't know what this "LAN" thing is, or how to make a game connect across it without desyncing/crashing before a game finishes.

And if we're making an FPS, I'd like at least some parts of Halo 3's engine to go into it. The use of colour and light in that game is awesome; there's very little of this grey/brown filter nonsense, and the AI is, in my experience, sweet. There's probably better out there, but it's not in Source, I'll tell you that.
 

ElArabDeMagnifico

New member
Dec 20, 2007
3,775
0
0
BTW, what did Ubisoft do to make AlTair move so well? His animations were flawless, and there were almost no bounds to what he could climb, probably what's so impressive about Assassin's Creed, I just don't know if it's the engine or Ubisoft spending so much frikin' time on making things climbable.

Fenixius said:
Dance The Revolution said:
Is there some software to make things easier to create on the big bad Ps3?
I'm going to say that it's the fault of the arcane engine they built inside the dark shell that it's difficult to create optimal games.
Just curious, but you are refering to that Cell Processor right?

People just have a hard time "threading" those processors together, so I don't know if it's a skill problem, patience problem, or actual game engine problem.

As for lighting engine, I played sources little tech demo (lost coast) with the commentary on and there was a few things that I'm surprised the source engine couldn't do with lighting, because it still had interesting things like how your eyes adjusted to light, and in TF2 the shadows are made to look cartoony...the frikin' shadows - I think it has dynamic lighting but it's just not very good, but you can still make the most out of it.

Don't know much about Halo 3's engine but so far the most impressive lighting I've seen is in Crysis, I'm sure I've seen better but Crysis is fresh in my mind. Uncharted has a nice light engine too now that I think about it.

Also, I agree with you about the Supcom camera, every time I start another RTS you'll see me reflexively spinning the mouse wheel, only to realize that I can't move very far...
 

Fenixius

New member
Feb 5, 2007
448
0
0
ElArabDeMagnifico said:
Fenixius said:
Dance The Revolution said:
Is there some software to make things easier to create on the big bad Ps3?
I'm going to say that it's the fault of the arcane engine they built inside the dark shell that it's difficult to create optimal games.
Just curious, but you are refering to that Cell Processor right?

People just have a hard time "threading" those processors together, so I don't know if it's a skill problem, patience problem, or actual game engine problem.
Yes, that is exactly what I meant. Though studios that develop their games solely or primarily for the PS3 aren't having too rough a time, companies that would develop on multiple platforms (like, say, EA, R*, Midway, etc) complain that because the architecture is so different in the PS3 than they're used to, they virtually have to rebuild their engine's insides to make it fit on the Cell. And that's why lots of PS3 games have their release dates knocked back, even if it's a multiplatform title. Because 360 was out a year earlier and has a larger installed base, it seems that studios would rather do their primary development for 360, which makes life a little harder for fans of Sony. Of course, companies that do exclusives or build for PS3 first don't seem to be complaining as much, so perhaps it's just a teething thing as the rest of the devs get used to the Cell.

ElArabDeMagnifico said:
Don't know much about Halo 3's engine but so far the most impressive lighting I've seen is in Crysis, I'm sure I've seen better but Crysis is fresh in my mind.
Oh snap, I completely forgot about Crytek. Good point. I still like the way Bungie made everything vibrantly colourful, but yeah, Crytek was indeed a shiny, shiny engine. I'd be disappointed, however, if the ULTIMATE Game Engine (or UberEngine for short) required a Crysis-capable machine to have it run.

Also, what's this Swarm thing people keep insisting that they fuse Source with? Wiki is unhelpful, and Google's results for "Swarm Engine" are also unhelpful. Perhaps it's not an engine, and I'm looking for the wrong thing? Someone give me a hand here?
 

ElArabDeMagnifico

New member
Dec 20, 2007
3,775
0
0
Yeah and speaking of bad google results, every time I click the first link Firefox freezes up.

What is swarm?! It sounds like something I'd see in Dead Rising because I'm surprised they had so much on screen and on a 360 of all things.

and as for system requirements, lets just assume that the UberEngine is finished during the next generation, therefore Crysis specs are "the norm".
 

kanyatta

New member
Aug 6, 2008
92
0
0
So, for FPS's, maybe take a bit of Source and add... nothing. Best FPS engine ever.

Wow, that was easy.
 

Bakery

New member
Jul 15, 2008
170
0
0
Fenixius said:
Also, what's this Swarm thing people keep insisting that they fuse Source with? Wiki is unhelpful, and Google's results for "Swarm Engine" are also unhelpful. Perhaps it's not an engine, and I'm looking for the wrong thing? Someone give me a hand here?
Forgive my undereducated interjection but I think Swarm is what they used in Dead Rising to get craploads of zombies on the screen at any time. I might be wrong though so don't quote me on it. XD
 

L4Y Duke

New member
Nov 24, 2007
1,085
0
0
Swarm is what they used on the Starship Troopers game to get 300 enemies onscreen at the same time.

The back of the box calls the engine 'SWARM'. Though, even a meaty system has significant framerate drops with large enemy numbers with SWARM.
 

Fenixius

New member
Feb 5, 2007
448
0
0
L4Y Duke said:
Swarm is what they used on the Starship Troopers game to get 300 enemies onscreen at the same time.
I've never played Starship Troopers... but I'm going to hazard a guess that the AI in it wasn't any cleverer than the Zerglings in StarCraft. Hide when noone's around and swarm when they are. Personally, I'd rather a few really fun enemies over one really CPU-taxing swarm of them. Especially once you add Euphoria to Swarm, you're just going to end up needing a 16*4.0Ghz uberprocessor to run it.

And what's so great about 200+ enemies onscreen at once? Honestly... you just put ammunition into the swarm, and it shrinks slowly. You backpedal and they charge... just go play Geometry Wars or something. That said, many enemies can be awesome. But I'm thinking more like DMC4's Batman Legendary Dark Knight mode, where you get around 10-50 enemies to play with at any one time. And, truthfully, 12 Frosts (ranged/melee hybrid elite enemies) is hellish to fight, because when you're trying to perform some effective combo, or even a throw, you're being shot and interrupted.

kanyatta said:
So, for FPS's, maybe take a bit of Source and add... nothing. Best FPS engine ever.

Wow, that was easy.
Oh, that easy? Sorry, kanyatta, but the best engine ever would involve real AI instead of scripted fake-AI that only knows how to shoot, move, and do what it's told by the developers. I'd much prefer if we could drop some enemies into the world, they'd look at it and go "Well, there are cover spots here and here, explosives over there, and a vehicle. How do we stop someone getting past?". As far as Fenix knows, at least, that's not what Source does. I don't know how well Euphoria handles vehicles and complex decisions, but it does at least make use of cover intelligently. And Halo knows not only that, but what a vehicle is and which end is the shooty one. So some combination of those sounds about right.

Not that Source is a bad engine, but it's not the best engine ever built. Yes, physics engines are awesome, but I demand intelligent AI as well. Anyone play any games with awesome AI in them recently?
 

mjhhiv

New member
Jun 22, 2008
758
0
0
From what I'm seeing, the Dunia engine could be fantastic. Huge map, pretty visuals... we'll just wait and see about it.
 

ElArabDeMagnifico

New member
Dec 20, 2007
3,775
0
0
kanyatta said:
So, for FPS's, maybe take a bit of Source and add... nothing. Best FPS engine ever.

Wow, that was easy.
Now, don't want to rain on your parade but come on man, even you should realize that the source engine has room for improvement.

RAKtheUndead said:
The Real Virtuality engine from Operation Flashpoint, ArmA: Armed Assault and the Virtual Battlespace simulators, with proper physics and better (perhaps Virtual Battlespace-style) AI. Sorted.

No loading times, vehicles done excellently, easy mission editing, enemy personnel which ventilate stupid players in an instant. That's why they use Virtual Battlespace in the military. Only problem is that it costs $1,500 a drop.
Wow I had no idea that engine was so sophisticated, OpFlashpoint 2 (Dragon...something) just got announced, do you think that's going to use it? Who knows, maybe that 1.5k is just a high initial cost and then the reast is easy pickings.
 

PedroSteckecilo

Mexican Fugitive
Feb 7, 2008
6,727
0
0
Decoy Doctorpus said:
Fuck map size. Bring in the gas powered Engine from Dungeon Siege. No loading screens or anything, a huge streaming world.
That was one of the few things Dungeon Siege did VERY Well, I loved the seemless maps, especially when you go from Upper World to Dungeon.