Alt+Tab, Windowed Mode, and Me.

Amnestic

High Priest of Haruhi
Aug 22, 2008
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This has been bugging me for a while now and the point of this thread shall be twofold:

1) Bitching about Alt+Tab.

2) Comparisons between the various forms of Windowed Mode out there and why none of them are as good as WoW's Windowed Mode.

Top of the Hat

The Alt+Tab function should be one every PC user knows well. In effect, it lets you scroll between different programs you're currently using and switch to them instantly. When you're operating in your basic windows and folders and internet browser, this isn't an issue. It gets rather more iffy when you start bringing in full screen games into the mix. Some games have no issue with the alt+tab, switching seemlessly between the game and the rest of your computer with narry a twinkle. Might lag slightly going in and out, but as far as actual problems with the game, they're largely inconsequential or non-existant.

Other games...not so much. Bethesda (Elder Scrolls, Fallout 3) are notorious for games which handle badly when alt+tabbed, often crashing on their way out, back in, or five minutes later even if everything seems to be going fine. This is rather annoying for those of us who enjoy messing about with console commands but haven't used them enough to commit every single one to memory yet. Another game (one I just discovered) is Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, which seems to have contracted Bethesda-itis in regards to how they react to alt+tab, crashing repeatedly and annoying the bloody hell out of me.

Other large games (Mass Effect 2 for instance) don't seem to have any qualms whatsoever with being minimised and maximised repeatedly. At least, not on my computer.

So I have to wonder, what gives guys? Why is it that some games handle this so well and so flawlessly but others can't even minimise once without freezing up or throwing up errors?

Brim of the Hat

Windowed Mode is also something most PC gamers will know about. It's fairly self explanatory, it turns your full-screen game and puts it in a Window, the likes of which you'll see around pretty much every program you use on your PC. Sometimes this works fine, although tends to obscure part of the screen - normally the very bottom - (Team Fortress 2), sometimes it can slightly offset the mouse pointer which can make it rather awkward to use (Supreme Commander 1 (demo, but I assume the full version suffers the same problem)) and sometimes it just makes the game lag to shit and become completely unplayable (...can't remember an example, but I don't think Dragon Age reacted well to Windowed mode).

Now Windowed mode, for it's many issues, has one big advantage: The game is no longer full screen, and thus any issues with alt+tab disappear, as it's now the same as switching between your porn folder and your favourite porn site. This means that if you've got a riveting social life like I do with dozens a few one person on your instant messenger contacts list who you like to chat to, you can do it without troubles while still sniping that Heavy on the other team.

But it is not without its own issues, as I've said. Now, World of Warcraft (which I mentioned at the start of this mini-ramble) has a Windowed Mode as well, but it takes it a step further in flexibility. In effect there are three 'setups' for WoW in regards to windowed mode. First is the basic full-screen mode: Lags when alt-tabbing in and out and minimises whenever you do so. Second is Windowed mode: Works just like anything else. Resizeable window with WoW inside, let's you play about and browse for porn at the same time.

Finally, Full Screen Windowed Mode: This is what sets WoW apart from other games I've played and checked out - though if it's not unique, someone point this out to me. It combines the best parts of Windowed mode (seamless alt-tabbing, plays in the background, doesn't minimise) with the best parts of full screen mode (no mouse offset, no borders, no screen obscure by the Start Bar, etc.) and puts it all together in a way that is absolutely perfect for a gamer who likes a full screen of awesome but still has other commitments with his PC while he's playing.

So now I'm sat here, also wondering- Why don't more games have this as well? It's such a small change to make but it can massively increase how much I enjoy my gaming. Why haven't more developers picked up on this? And why do I ask so many questions?

TL;DR:

Developers need to copy WoW's fullscreen windowed mode and stop copying Bethesda's allergy to the alt+tab function.
 

Danny Ocean

Master Archivist
Jun 28, 2008
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The steam overlay does a pretty good job of handling those problems. I can browse porn and then send the links to my steam friends without closing the game.
 

Amnestic

High Priest of Haruhi
Aug 22, 2008
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poiumty said:
Oh, so instant messenger counts as having a social life now? Fuck me, and here i thought i had no life.

Also, i've seen wow's fullscreen-windowed schtick in Lineage 2 as well, though it doesn't work since the 3rd expansion.
Depends who you're talking to ;) and how naked they are

Nice to see that it's not solely unique to WoW at least. If it is reliant on the engine then people need to build their engine's better >_>

Danny Ocean said:
The steam overlay does a pretty good job of handling those problems. I can browse porn and then send the links to my steam friends without closing the game.
I'll couple this with a point about Xfire as that has an "in-game chat" function as well I believe: Works fine and dandy until you find a person you want to talk to who doesn't have one of those two things. While this might be more of a rarity than I like to think, flexibility and being able to do stuff even if I won't always need it is something I appreciate in my games.

I recognise that this might sound a little...needy, greedy or self-important, but dammit man, once you've had a taste of WoW's full-screen windowed mode, nothing compares.
 

Proteus214

Game Developer
Jul 31, 2009
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It's an inherent problem with the operating system itself and the way it interacts with your graphics card. We had the same problem while working on a game project a while back. We were working on a 3D action platformer (nothing too fancy graphically) that had the option to be run in a window. Then one day we found that you could get the game to lock up by simply minimizing and maximizing it a few times. It had us scratching our heads for a few days and we just said fuck it because we couldn't figure out how to fix it.

Whatever Blizzard did, they really need to share it and others need to follow.
 

Nalgas D. Lemur

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Nov 20, 2009
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I'm almost the exact opposite, in that I basically never use windowed mode if full screen is available. Most stuff tends to run better full screen, and I don't like having other distracting stuff on the screen, whether I'm playing a game or watching a movie or whatever.

I also only tab out of games very rarely. Probably a good part of that is because I have two computers, though. My desktop plays games and movies and TV and stuff like that, and my laptop (or for a while there my other, crappier desktop, until I got a new laptop) does everything else. If I need to look something up or talk to someone, I have not just a separate screen, but an entire separate computer. I can control both with the same keyboard/mouse (Synergy is awesome), so instead of alt-tabbing out of a game, I have a different keyboard shortcut to flip between computers for quick stuff like that.

It's not remotely a cost-effective solution to windowed mode and/or alt-tab sucking in a lot of games, but it sure does work well. Sure would be nice if they could just fix the games instead, though, especially for people who don't have/don't like that option.
 

Sephychu

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Dec 13, 2009
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My copy of Oblivion doesn't seem to have the Alt+Tab issue you describe, but Fallout 3 sure as hell does.

I like windowed modes, but I prefer Full Screen gameplay. However, you are correct in that, when Windowed Mode becomes necessary, most games are inadequate.
 

theComposer

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Mar 29, 2009
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I agree with you. If there's a windowed mode, I'll usually use it, unless it's really bad or if full-screen works perfectly. However, I too wish all games had an option like WoW for a full-screen windowed mode. It allowed you to play a game and use your computer normally, with seamless switching between the two.
 

benoitowns

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Oct 18, 2009
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poiumty said:
social life.... instant messenger
Oh, so instant messenger counts as having a social life now? Fuck me, and here i thought i had no life.
Really? It DOES?? YES......wait I dont instant messege...............dammit and i thought that for once....oh fuck it
 

The Undoer

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Sep 13, 2009
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Danny Ocean said:
The steam overlay does a pretty good job of handling those problems. I can browse porn and then send the links to my steam friends without closing the game.
Agreed, I just connect all my games to Steam (Even dodgy copies, and Steam have never picked me up on them) and shift tab. I avoid MSN, so it doesn't really give me any issues, and use Steam chat to converse with friends.
 

psychic psycho

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Dec 17, 2009
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I don't play World of Warcraft, but it sounds a lot like the "Borderless Windowed Mode" that appears in both L4D games. I agree it's a pretty cool feature and I wished it appeared in more games.
 

More Fun To Compute

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Nov 18, 2008
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This isn't always an easy thing for developers to get right because of how things like windows and directx work. It's like when you alt tab out they have to move all the toys from their games into a toy box making sure they put everything in the right place. Then when you alt tab out they have to take all the toys out of the box and put them back in the right place. Now windows is like a really short tempered fastidious mother. If the developer doesn't put the toys in or out of the box in exactly the right way she starts yelling, throws the toys out then says that nobody is allowed to play the game again unless they learn how to be tidy and show respect for the house.
 

Petromir

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Apr 10, 2010
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Company of Heros can be a pain to get back into full screen, especially annoying if you're playing with NVidia 3D Vision running.
 

ZephrC

Free Cascadia!
Mar 9, 2010
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Well, it doesn't help with the instant messenger thing, and not everyone has one, but if for some reason I need to walk-through for an adventure game or to have a list of console commands or something of that nature, I just use my Wii. It may not have the greatest browser ever, but it works just fine for GameFAQs.
 

Pingieking

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Sep 19, 2009
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Asian games don't have this problem, which makes me very annoyed when I play "western" games and have it crash upon minimizing and bringing it back up. Slow loads, crashes, graphical errors, all sorts of good stuff.
Mass Effect 1 and 2 both take forever to load up again.
Hearts of Iron 2 and 3 get graphical errors when I minimize during the loading process. Otherwise they're fine.
The Witcher is incapable of surviving an alt+tab. Neither can Batman. That's when I knew that Rocksteady hasn't reached the ultimate goal of the perfect Batman game. There's no way that someone as awesome as Batman can be brought down by a simple alt+tab.
 

AlphaOmega

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Oct 10, 2008
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-novid -console -windowed -noborder
In every source game, and I agree with our OP mostly.
 

Altorin

Jack of No Trades
May 16, 2008
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I agree entirely. I was actually thinking the exact same thing when i clicked this link I play WoW in Windowed mode only, and it spoils me for every other game because they all SUCK at it. Even other blizzard games.
 

DazZ.

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2009
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This post basically says "I don't use windowed mode".

WoW is the kind of game you want to run in a window, all my other games I'd prefer to be full screen.

I don't want people outside of the game talking to me as I'm trying to snipe that heavy. However when I'm on WoW it's always windowed with a browser and IMs a plenty. The only thing I don't like about WoWs windowed mode is it doesn't flash at you when you have a dungeon/pvp ready to join. I have missed so many groups because I didn't see the thing in time because I got carried away on something else.

FPS games I wouldn't run in a window even if it did work flawlessly because I don't want non gamers talking to me whilst playing. Steam has all my friends that play games on, so they can talk fine whilst I block out the whiney bitches that don't understand why it's important I don't get fragged by shutting down MSN.
[small](I've written a long post about this before somewhere but can't remember where.)[/small]

I have ran Dragon Age windowed with IMs going, it's not fast paced and it's a suitable game to pause, but it's usually full screen because I want to get into it. (and I have Steams web browser if I need help)

Basically I keep gaming and socialising with non gamers separate, they don't want to hear about my frags or how hard this dragon I'm slaying is, and it's all I want to talk about whilst I'm playing.