Alternative to Piracy

[The Austin]

Include video games in cereal boxes. That's all I can think of.

BRILLIANT!

Or we could just make them cheaper.....?

Once again, do you have a way to implement this? I'm not trying to be annoying or point out flaws in your logic, but the point was to try and come up with a system that would somehow reduce piracy but also be feasible to put into place, simply saying "make it cheaper" sure does the former, but the latter would require some explanation.

sure.

Remember how back in the days of the PS2 the most expensive a game got to was 49.99?

Yea. Go back to that. $65 is way to fucking much.

 

[pirateninj4]

Until you get rid of the money thing (ie money being the worst thing since we gave up tribal living) you'll always have a black market for everything.

 

[whaleswiththumbs]

Actually buy the game?

Thank you...

My thought on this is that it's much like other forms of internet abusings(i.e. trolling, flaming, etc.) If we would stop making such a goddamn deal out of it there really wouldn't be as many people, which is also true for ANY thing else you believe should be stopped/furthered. If you take the hype of of anything , im tempted to say half, a good chunk of the followers will drop off.

I have an amazingly awesome close female friend(not really like you think, idk why, for later disscussion) who if a pirate. I have even done it a few times. The only reasont he two of us do it is because we can't afford the game in the first place, we are for the most part broke and when were not we choose to spend it on other things we cant get with a free download.

So you really want to stop piracy? You can't. So spread some wealth and stop hyping and i promise atleast 2 of your pirates will hit the stores.

 

[Canus]

Meh I proposed an alternative in the last thread. I guess it got overlooked.

A few measures need to be taken to slow piracy or get rid of it.

- Sell sealed consoles.
- Eliminate cd drives (dvd, blu-ray, hd-dvd) The consumer will see an immediate benefit from a reduced price from the removal of packaging, shipping and lowered advertising costs.
- games available for download only (at discounted prices like what steam does)
- if you go to a friends house you can log into your account and download anything you bought so you're not lugging around a console

Bandwidth ain't free. I'm capped at a very generous 250 GB a month up/down shared, and I always use at least half of it even without any sort of game downloading. I know that in many countries, you'd be lucky to get 20 GB a month. What's the size of a PS3 game? 10 GB? 20? It's only going up.

IMO, there isn't anything you can do to stop pirates, and it isn't as big an issue as it's made out to be. Stealing hard goods is a crime, too, but shoplifting is still problem accounting for over ten BILLION dollars of stolen goods in the US alone. I'll admit, I've pirated games before. But I wasn't about to pay for them no matter how easy things were made. No sale was lost; it was piracy or nothing. And since my copy of the game didn't even cause the loss of revenue that taking something off a shelf would, I don't really feel bad. Haters gonna hate, pirates gonna pirate. Release demos to cut out some pirates, use non-invasive DRM like CD Keys to weed out a few more (yeah it's weak, but it'll stop a couple casual pirates), then deal with it as best you can, like EVERY OTHER INDUSTRY IN THE WORLD.

 

[Wicky_42]

Well alternatives that could work would be programs that allow for both full purchase and single purchase songs for cheap and DRM free. As well as allow buyers to view entire movies for a small fee, make it on demand to. We could also incorporate these two ideas into one smooth program that accepts both credit card and pre-paid cards you can buy pretty much everywhere.

Itunes doesn't just give you the song for free, no DRM attached. They watermark the files with your email and creditcard information.

That would be a problem if it wasn't for the fact you don't need a credit card to buy from itunes.

As well the fact even if it did i don't give everyone and my dog files i download.

That's not destructive DRM. If you don't mind people knowing your personal info you can give it to anyone.

It doesn't matter what you pay with. You need a credit card to get an iTunes account in the first place. Now, you can sign up for iTunes with a prepaid gift credit card, but I'd be pretty sure you didn't.

Still though. It's not a destructive DRM and i don't see a major issue with it. It discourages you from giving out the song without having to limit your ability to use it. While someone can steal my credit information by hacking my account or stealing my ipod they could just as easily pull the info from my computer or just take my wallet.

As well its by far probably one of the least offensive DRM's out there. Its a step. Rather then pinpoint a problem work to make it better.

I'm a bit confused by this DRM - it puts you credit card info into the songs you buy? For what purpose? So that you can only play them on your account or something? What happens if you want to put them on an MP3 player to listen to out and about? Or if you change cards?
Does a program check your details every time you use the song? If not, then what's the point? If it does, is it not conceivable that the program could be told to disable your music collection?

Personally, with music I'd get the CD and rip it - wow, music that I can listen to without worrying about offending some software somewhere. No DRM, no bullshit, just the product I wanted.

Then again, that might just be me.

 

[cappp]

I'm not going to talk about the pirating of games, because I don't know enough about the industry. I will however say this:

Avatar (2009):
Budget: 237 Million USD
Gross Revenue: 2,718 Million USD

Weep for the movie industry, I do not.

It's not as simple as that though. There's an article on Slate that explores the issue in more depth, the <url=http://www.slate.com/id/2118819>relevent portion reads:

"First, the reported "grosses" are not those of the studios but those of the movie houses. The movie houses take these sums and keep their share (or what they claim is their share)-which can amount to more than 50 percent of the original box-office total. Consider, for example, Touchstone's Gone in 60 Seconds, which had a $242 million box-office gross. From this impressive haul, the theaters kept $129.8 million and remitted the balance to Disney's distribution arm, Buena Vista. After paying mandatory trade dues to the MPAA, Buena Vista was left with $101.6 million. From this amount, it repaid the marketing expenses that had been advanced-$13 million for prints so the film could open in thousands of theatres; $10.2 million for the insurance, local taxes, custom clearances, and other logistical expenses; and $67.4 million for advertising. What remained of the nearly quarter-billion-dollar "gross" was a paltry $11 million. (And that figure does not account for the $103.3 million that Disney had paid to make the movie in the first place."

You may also find <url=http://www.boxofficeprophets.com/column/index.cfm?columnID=8359>this discussion interesting.

 

[Wicky_42]

I dont pirate them myself. I use the PC of a family member who lives in the city then burn them to a disk. I cannot use this system with steam as i would need to directly download to the machine i want to play on.

Ah, no you don't. So long as the games are registered to your account, you can copy-paste game files into the Steam folder and all will be well. I backed up my (20Gb or so) Steam folder before a reformat, then reinstalled Steam, ran it so it created the file architecture for my games and began downloading them (just be be on the safe side), then closed it down and pasted everything in. Start it up again and it thinks it's just completed the downloads. Sorted!

 

[Chunko]

Ok in Response to the ridiculous amount of responses to this thread

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.190733-Piracy-lost-money

I've decided to try and stop the flame wars, instead of arguing over the morality of piracy, is it at all possible to create an alternative to it?

If you don't like the prices that the games developers put on their games, what alternatives do you suggest?

Is there a way to make piracy viable? Instead of simply downloading the game could they sponsor the original Developer in some way?

Is it possible to even create an alternative to piracy? Steam seems to be one of the main choices instead of just downloading the game illegally pay for the download.

If we can't find an answer could someone at least suggest an alternative to the DRM?

Once again this is NOT piracy is right or wrong! This is a "OK piracy happens, if you really don't like it or you do do it, is there a way to create a system that makes piracy obsolete?"

Hey maybe a payment plan, or if your gamestation you could just demand peoples souls instead....

You have the right idea, GOOD JOB! I was thinking about this while I was reading that thread. Developers need to think about somehow combining demos with the full game. A possible Idea would be something along the lines of giving away the first third of L4D1 for free for 1 month. Whoever masters this idea will be rich as hell!

 

[DividedUnity]

I dont pirate them myself. I use the PC of a family member who lives in the city then burn them to a disk. I cannot use this system with steam as i would need to directly download to the machine i want to play on.

Ah, no you don't. So long as the games are registered to your account, you can copy-paste game files into the Steam folder and all will be well. I backed up my (20Gb or so) Steam folder before a reformat, then reinstalled Steam, ran it so it created the file architecture for my games and began downloading them (just be be on the safe side), then closed it down and pasted everything in. Start it up again and it thinks it's just completed the downloads. Sorted!

I was under the impression that I could not do so. I was mistaken it seems.

Would I be able to download the games from steam on one computer then transfer them via disk to another computer without any heavy downloads then?

 

[Jfswift]

Meh I proposed an alternative in the last thread. I guess it got overlooked.

A few measures need to be taken to slow piracy or get rid of it.

- Sell sealed consoles.
- Eliminate cd drives (dvd, blu-ray, hd-dvd) The consumer will see an immediate benefit from a reduced price from the removal of packaging, shipping and lowered advertising costs.
- games available for download only (at discounted prices like what steam does)
- if you go to a friends house you can log into your account and download anything you bought so you're not lugging around a console

Bandwidth ain't free. I'm capped at a very generous 250 GB a month up/down shared, and I always use at least half of it even without any sort of game downloading. I know that in many countries, you'd be lucky to get 20 GB a month. What's the size of a PS3 game? 10 GB? 20? It's only going up.

IMO, there isn't anything you can do to stop pirates, and it isn't as big an issue as it's made out to be. Stealing hard goods is a crime, too, but shoplifting is still problem accounting for over ten BILLION dollars of stolen goods in the US alone. I'll admit, I've pirated games before. But I wasn't about to pay for them no matter how easy things were made. No sale was lost; it was piracy or nothing. And since my copy of the game didn't even cause the loss of revenue that taking something off a shelf would, I don't really feel bad. Haters gonna hate, pirates gonna pirate. Release demos to cut out some pirates, use non-invasive DRM like CD Keys to weed out a few more (yeah it's weak, but it'll stop a couple casual pirates), then deal with it as best you can, like EVERY OTHER INDUSTRY IN THE WORLD.

*Nods* Yea, that's a good point and why my plan probably wont work (although my internet company doesn't hassle me for doing massive game downloads from steam all the time). I think my idea might work, but only in the future, after the internet has been overhauled. Right now I agree with you. I don't care too much if people pirate or not, I was just suggesting a creative way to curb it. With music though, there really is no way to do it. You can always intercept the wires. There's just no way to prevent high quality copies. I forget to mention include demos, but I do agree with that, steam does this and it's a great idea. You can actually play the game or a sizeable portion without getting ripped off.

CD keys do work if they rotate them once in a while. I've seen a few companies do this or offer, "upgrades" which break the older versions hehe. It's sneaky but effective. (at least I suspect that's what they're doing).

 

[Wicky_42]

I dont pirate them myself. I use the PC of a family member who lives in the city then burn them to a disk. I cannot use this system with steam as i would need to directly download to the machine i want to play on.

Ah, no you don't. So long as the games are registered to your account, you can copy-paste game files into the Steam folder and all will be well. I backed up my (20Gb or so) Steam folder before a reformat, then reinstalled Steam, ran it so it created the file architecture for my games and began downloading them (just be be on the safe side), then closed it down and pasted everything in. Start it up again and it thinks it's just completed the downloads. Sorted!

I was under the impression that I could not do so. I was mistaken it seems.

Would I be able to download the games from steam on one computer then transfer them via disk to another computer without any heavy downloads then?

Yep. Wouldn't even have to be from your account, in all probability. Basically, so long as you have the license to use the game on Steam, it doesn't matter where those files came from - it's all the same to Steam! The only downloads would be game patches, which obviously vary in size. If you didn't want to download the patches, then you'd probably have to copy the entire game file across from the downloading PC again, backing up your saves as required.

 

[DividedUnity]

I dont pirate them myself. I use the PC of a family member who lives in the city then burn them to a disk. I cannot use this system with steam as i would need to directly download to the machine i want to play on.

Ah, no you don't. So long as the games are registered to your account, you can copy-paste game files into the Steam folder and all will be well. I backed up my (20Gb or so) Steam folder before a reformat, then reinstalled Steam, ran it so it created the file architecture for my games and began downloading them (just be be on the safe side), then closed it down and pasted everything in. Start it up again and it thinks it's just completed the downloads. Sorted!

I was under the impression that I could not do so. I was mistaken it seems.

Would I be able to download the games from steam on one computer then transfer them via disk to another computer without any heavy downloads then?

Yep. Wouldn't even have to be from your account, in all probability. Basically, so long as you have the license to use the game on Steam, it doesn't matter where those files came from - it's all the same to Steam! The only downloads would be game patches, which obviously vary in size. If you didn't want to download the patches, then you'd probably have to copy the entire game file across from the downloading PC again, backing up your saves as required.

Id probably have to download all the patches on another pc though.

I might try steam out again.

 

[Kagim]

Well alternatives that could work would be programs that allow for both full purchase and single purchase songs for cheap and DRM free. As well as allow buyers to view entire movies for a small fee, make it on demand to. We could also incorporate these two ideas into one smooth program that accepts both credit card and pre-paid cards you can buy pretty much everywhere.

Itunes doesn't just give you the song for free, no DRM attached. They watermark the files with your email and creditcard information.

That would be a problem if it wasn't for the fact you don't need a credit card to buy from itunes.

As well the fact even if it did i don't give everyone and my dog files i download.

That's not destructive DRM. If you don't mind people knowing your personal info you can give it to anyone.

It doesn't matter what you pay with. You need a credit card to get an iTunes account in the first place. Now, you can sign up for iTunes with a prepaid gift credit card, but I'd be pretty sure you didn't.

Still though. It's not a destructive DRM and i don't see a major issue with it. It discourages you from giving out the song without having to limit your ability to use it. While someone can steal my credit information by hacking my account or stealing my ipod they could just as easily pull the info from my computer or just take my wallet.

As well its by far probably one of the least offensive DRM's out there. Its a step. Rather then pinpoint a problem work to make it better.

I'm a bit confused by this DRM - it puts you credit card info into the songs you buy? For what purpose? So that you can only play them on your account or something? What happens if you want to put them on an MP3 player to listen to out and about? Or if you change cards?
Does a program check your details every time you use the song? If not, then what's the point? If it does, is it not conceivable that the program could be told to disable your music collection?

Personally, with music I'd get the CD and rip it - wow, music that I can listen to without worrying about offending some software somewhere. No DRM, no bullshit, just the product I wanted.

Then again, that might just be me.

No, it just means if you hand out the song to people for free and they know what they are doing they can extract your account info from it.

No random checks, nothing invasive. I have my music on several different ipods around the apartment and on two different computers. It has nothing to do with checks and guess work.

Nothing to do with your card, nothing at all. Its a watermark like the other poster said. Nothing else. Its not going to suddenly disable your collection. You won't be offending some software somewhere because its not software.

 

[shemoanscazrex3]

There are several alternatives to piracy, developers don't use them for whatever reason.

-An Ad Sponsored version of the game that's basically the full game for free, but you have to sit through ads inbetween levels, and little watermarks on your screen, ect ect. Advertisers pay the company for their losses.

-A fucking demo. Is it really that hard to release a fucking demo?

-Time trial versions. You get to play for an hour/2 hours/ect ect, and once the time is up the game locks up. If you liked what you saw you can follow a link to buy it, at which time the game unlocks, and since it's already on your computer, no lengthy installations or DRM bullshit to go through.

the problem with time trial versions is that someone will find a way to hack away the restriction

 

[Wicky_42]

Spoiler: le snip

Well alternatives that could work would be programs that allow for both full purchase and single purchase songs for cheap and DRM free. As well as allow buyers to view entire movies for a small fee, make it on demand to. We could also incorporate these two ideas into one smooth program that accepts both credit card and pre-paid cards you can buy pretty much everywhere.

Itunes doesn't just give you the song for free, no DRM attached. They watermark the files with your email and creditcard information.

That would be a problem if it wasn't for the fact you don't need a credit card to buy from itunes.

As well the fact even if it did i don't give everyone and my dog files i download.

That's not destructive DRM. If you don't mind people knowing your personal info you can give it to anyone.

It doesn't matter what you pay with. You need a credit card to get an iTunes account in the first place. Now, you can sign up for iTunes with a prepaid gift credit card, but I'd be pretty sure you didn't.

Still though. It's not a destructive DRM and i don't see a major issue with it. It discourages you from giving out the song without having to limit your ability to use it. While someone can steal my credit information by hacking my account or stealing my ipod they could just as easily pull the info from my computer or just take my wallet.

As well its by far probably one of the least offensive DRM's out there. Its a step. Rather then pinpoint a problem work to make it better.

I'm a bit confused by this DRM - it puts you credit card info into the songs you buy? For what purpose? So that you can only play them on your account or something? What happens if you want to put them on an MP3 player to listen to out and about? Or if you change cards?
Does a program check your details every time you use the song? If not, then what's the point? If it does, is it not conceivable that the program could be told to disable your music collection?

Personally, with music I'd get the CD and rip it - wow, music that I can listen to without worrying about offending some software somewhere. No DRM, no bullshit, just the product I wanted.

Then again, that might just be me.

No, it just means if you hand out the song to people for free and they know what they are doing they can extract your account info from it.

No random checks, nothing invasive. I have my music on several different ipods around the apartment and on two different computers. It has nothing to do with checks and guess work.

Nothing to do with your card, nothing at all. Its a watermark like the other poster said. Nothing else. Its not going to suddenly disable your collection. You won't be offending some software somewhere because its not software.

In that case, why bother with the watermark? Why not just give you the damn song without all the personal data attached? Or is the idea meant to be to scare you into not sharing your music as your info is available in the files?

 

[Motiv_]

-An Ad Sponsored version of the game that's basically the full game for free, but you have to sit through ads inbetween levels, and little watermarks on your screen, ect ect. Advertisers pay the company for their losses.

-A fucking demo. Is it really that hard to release a fucking demo?

I agree with you about demos. As far as adds go though, don't lots of games these days put them in to the version they sell? I am under the impression that just adds won't pay the development costs of a modern big budget game.

Well at the time of this writing, there are several games and apps that do it well. For example, Plants vs Zombies, Fraps, ect ect. Yes, it would be hard to make up the losses, but far from impossible, and I highly doubt many would be so cheap as to be willing to put up with a 30 second ad between each cutscene or level.

 

[Kagim]

Spoiler: le snip

Well alternatives that could work would be programs that allow for both full purchase and single purchase songs for cheap and DRM free. As well as allow buyers to view entire movies for a small fee, make it on demand to. We could also incorporate these two ideas into one smooth program that accepts both credit card and pre-paid cards you can buy pretty much everywhere.

Itunes doesn't just give you the song for free, no DRM attached. They watermark the files with your email and creditcard information.

That would be a problem if it wasn't for the fact you don't need a credit card to buy from itunes.

As well the fact even if it did i don't give everyone and my dog files i download.

That's not destructive DRM. If you don't mind people knowing your personal info you can give it to anyone.

It doesn't matter what you pay with. You need a credit card to get an iTunes account in the first place. Now, you can sign up for iTunes with a prepaid gift credit card, but I'd be pretty sure you didn't.

Still though. It's not a destructive DRM and i don't see a major issue with it. It discourages you from giving out the song without having to limit your ability to use it. While someone can steal my credit information by hacking my account or stealing my ipod they could just as easily pull the info from my computer or just take my wallet.

As well its by far probably one of the least offensive DRM's out there. Its a step. Rather then pinpoint a problem work to make it better.

I'm a bit confused by this DRM - it puts you credit card info into the songs you buy? For what purpose? So that you can only play them on your account or something? What happens if you want to put them on an MP3 player to listen to out and about? Or if you change cards?
Does a program check your details every time you use the song? If not, then what's the point? If it does, is it not conceivable that the program could be told to disable your music collection?

Personally, with music I'd get the CD and rip it - wow, music that I can listen to without worrying about offending some software somewhere. No DRM, no bullshit, just the product I wanted.

Then again, that might just be me.

No, it just means if you hand out the song to people for free and they know what they are doing they can extract your account info from it.

No random checks, nothing invasive. I have my music on several different ipods around the apartment and on two different computers. It has nothing to do with checks and guess work.

Nothing to do with your card, nothing at all. Its a watermark like the other poster said. Nothing else. Its not going to suddenly disable your collection. You won't be offending some software somewhere because its not software.

In that case, why bother with the watermark? Why not just give you the damn song without all the personal data attached? Or is the idea meant to be to scare you into not sharing your music as your info is available in the files?

Pretty much. I find it significantly better then most any other system out there. Just don't share your files you downloaded with strangers. It's not even easy to get a hold of the info in the first place. The only people who could get that info is someone who can crack DRM.

 

[Fritzvalt]

The only real and viable alternative to piracy and DRM is making a physical product that the consumer WANTS to purchase. Maybe something packaged with the product or maybe just making a better product. DRM is a lazy solution that causes more problems than it fixes, but that's a whole different topic.

What physical object? A book that a pirate will scan and add as a pdf to his torrent?

If people won't pay for creative works, adding more creative works to "sweeten the deal" won't entice a pirate into buying it. He'll just pirate the whole goddamn treasure trove. People aren't going to pay $60 for a cheap figurine and an art booklet when they want to play a game.

Demanding more stuff isn't an answer.

That's true. People are going to pirate, that is a problem which won't be fixed. People will continue to steal so long as they can. I'm simply saying that you want to convince people that they should spend money on it rather than pirate it. It's idealistic, I know, but I still believe that if you make a high quality product and sell it for a fair price, that most people will pay for it.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

The only real and viable alternative to piracy and DRM is making a physical product that the consumer WANTS to purchase. Maybe something packaged with the product or maybe just making a better product. DRM is a lazy solution that causes more problems than it fixes, but that's a whole different topic.

What physical object? A book that a pirate will scan and add as a pdf to his torrent?

If people won't pay for creative works, adding more creative works to "sweeten the deal" won't entice a pirate into buying it. He'll just pirate the whole goddamn treasure trove. People aren't going to pay $60 for a cheap figurine and an art booklet when they want to play a game.

Demanding more stuff isn't an answer.

That's true. People are going to pirate, that is a problem which won't be fixed. People will continue to steal so long as they can. I'm simply saying that you want to convince people that they should spend money on it rather than pirate it. It's idealistic, I know, but I still believe that if you make a high quality product and sell it for a fair price, that most people will pay for it.

People are already making high quality products. That's why there are people who go online and take their content.

 

[adledog]

The alternative is glyde.com. you can get games for significantly cheaper and sell old crappy ones you dont want anymore

The aftermarket is more damaging to the industry than piracy. As those are actual tangible quantifiable lost sales.

Exactly, its the legal alternative to piracy=P