Why is this thread bumped? Whatever. If I had to put what I posted last time in a better way, it would be as follows: the characters have no positivist beliefs. They are called rebels but believe in nothing except a regime change. To what? Never said. This is basically a completely nonsensical idea when you look at virtually any revolution in the entire history of the universe. It's dumb.Eclectic Dreck said:
Alyx Vance, supposedly one of the most developed characters in video games, is bullshit
- Thread starter President Moocow
- Start date
Ive been playing HL2 (havent beaten) and Alyx is okay, though I wouldnt say she is very developed, I dont know much about her past except that shes been to Black Mesa(?) and that her father is Eli. thats it. oh and thats she is pretty good at computers I believe.
Alyx Vance certainly isn't as much supercilious bad-ass action girl (thanks Yahtzee) as a lot of other females in games, but I'd never class her as well-developed. In fact, while I'm here, the story of Half-Life 2 was pretty irritating. It was like "Shoot the guys and save the world because you're Gordan Freeman and can't answer back."
Is it as bad as the post on here that mention that woman from Portal being a good character? I don't think so.
I never liked her, specially on the bits where I'm out of ammo and she won't even hand me a single pistol clip out of her infinite stockpile of clips to me and instead go shoot at walls while I crowbar baddies to death >.>
And she's as two dimensional as all the standard female sidekicks ever made ever (most of them anyways)
And she's as two dimensional as all the standard female sidekicks ever made ever (most of them anyways)
Says the thickie with Laura "My-Eyes-Are-Up-Here" Croft as his avatar.Ubermetalhed said:
Any one else ever wonder if nerds from a century ago spent there times bashing the works of Jules Verne because Orson Wells was obviously the superior author?
You are pretty pathetic if you think that anyone whom appreciates Tombraider 2, only does so to fantasise over the heroine. My avatar has no bearing over my post, TR2 is merely my favourite action/adventure game hence my avatar. I believe generalising me and calling me a 'thickie' and alluding that i have the mindset of a pre-pubescent boy is unnecessary and a poor way of saying MY OPINION is wrong.WafflesToo said:
This thread started well enough, but on the second page I just sighed.
In which type of game is it easier to have character development also with side characters:
A massive, slow-paced 60-hour RPG where there are long LONG cutscenes to tell the story and all the characters are present all the time?
or
A 15-hour action-heavy corridor-boomfest where you control exactly one character, in which there are no cutscenes (in this case story-telling sequences where the control is taken away from the player) and are most of the time completely alone?
In which type of game is it easier to have character development also with side characters:
A massive, slow-paced 60-hour RPG where there are long LONG cutscenes to tell the story and all the characters are present all the time?
or
A 15-hour action-heavy corridor-boomfest where you control exactly one character, in which there are no cutscenes (in this case story-telling sequences where the control is taken away from the player) and are most of the time completely alone?
Personally I don't believe that the Half Life series contains any legitimate characters. It has great gameplay, no doubt - but I don't think anyone who considers Alyx Vance a great female character has read a book in a long time.
Jade from Beyond Good and Evil or Terra from Final Fantasy 6 are, to me, the best examples of female character development in video game story telling. You know why? Their character is not 100% reliant on the fact that they are female. Bad writers tend to write female characters based entirely on their gender, and that's the problem with nearly every female character in gaming.
Wait...Yuna is your go-to well done female character? YUNA?!? Yuna is nothing but a damsel-in-distress doormat. She doesn't have a single independent thought in her empty head. Yeah, she's not a 'sexy one-dimensional female' stereotype - she's WORSE. She's a masculine fantasy about a totally submissive woman who only ever thinks about how she can best please the men in her life. There is ZERO character development to Yuna. She's an apologetic, submissive, empty doormat at the start of the game and by the end of X-2 she's right back where she started.President Moocow said:
Jade from Beyond Good and Evil or Terra from Final Fantasy 6 are, to me, the best examples of female character development in video game story telling. You know why? Their character is not 100% reliant on the fact that they are female. Bad writers tend to write female characters based entirely on their gender, and that's the problem with nearly every female character in gaming.
This is a deconstructionist argument gone awry. You're basically saying that Valve manipulated the players by crafting a female ally who isn't a complete *****.
The truth of the matter is that a female companion who shows ANY affection for the player, whether it's physical or emotional, is going to boil down to player manipulation on the part of the developer. Because she's not real. She's a nonthinking construct.
Yuna's no different. Her journey, her growth, all that? Artificial, and therefore manipulative.
That's kind of the point of videogame stories as well as film and literature - to manipulate the viewer's emotions. Some do it better than others, and Alyx is by no means perfect. But hating on her design because she fits the far healthier and more intellectually/emotionally engaging stereotype of "the thoughtful girl next door", rather than the badass sexpot or psychologically imbalanced wounded animal, seems... backwards.
I liken it to the rift between dog and cat people. Cat people like to hate on dogs as emotionally shallow animals because they're broken, dependent, and obedient to a fault. Dog people laugh at cat people because they're catering to the whims of a little ungrateful shit. The truth is that all relationships involve some amount of manipulation, and classifying it as good or bad is something you have to leave in the hands of each individual.
Me? I'm a dog person. I dig Tali and Alyx. I don't think being supportive, modest, and approachable makes a girl weak, and I don't think being attracted to those traits makes me weak either. Some of us aren't looking for drama, negativity, pessimism, sarcasm. Some of us don't subscribe to "opposites attract!" or "sparks will fly!". A lot of people go for the nice girl next door because that seems like a sensible route to a happy life. If Alyx preys on that "fantasy", so be it. That's a respectable fantasy worthy of encouragement.
The truth of the matter is that a female companion who shows ANY affection for the player, whether it's physical or emotional, is going to boil down to player manipulation on the part of the developer. Because she's not real. She's a nonthinking construct.
Yuna's no different. Her journey, her growth, all that? Artificial, and therefore manipulative.
That's kind of the point of videogame stories as well as film and literature - to manipulate the viewer's emotions. Some do it better than others, and Alyx is by no means perfect. But hating on her design because she fits the far healthier and more intellectually/emotionally engaging stereotype of "the thoughtful girl next door", rather than the badass sexpot or psychologically imbalanced wounded animal, seems... backwards.
I liken it to the rift between dog and cat people. Cat people like to hate on dogs as emotionally shallow animals because they're broken, dependent, and obedient to a fault. Dog people laugh at cat people because they're catering to the whims of a little ungrateful shit. The truth is that all relationships involve some amount of manipulation, and classifying it as good or bad is something you have to leave in the hands of each individual.
Me? I'm a dog person. I dig Tali and Alyx. I don't think being supportive, modest, and approachable makes a girl weak, and I don't think being attracted to those traits makes me weak either. Some of us aren't looking for drama, negativity, pessimism, sarcasm. Some of us don't subscribe to "opposites attract!" or "sparks will fly!". A lot of people go for the nice girl next door because that seems like a sensible route to a happy life. If Alyx preys on that "fantasy", so be it. That's a respectable fantasy worthy of encouragement.
Whoops.
I do reckon you've brought up a fairly good point, that Valve designed her to be a 'girl next door' stereotype, although I think the reason that people are attached to her is not because of the basis that she's built on, but that actress herself who plays Alyx.
The designers designed her to be a stereotype, but the actress really brought her to life, with a really stellar performance through Half Life 2 and EP 1 and 2. Little things about her, like her genuine distress for her father and her relationships with other characters like Barney or Prof. Magnusson.
It's not what shes says, but how she says it that makes her much deeper as a character I reckon.
The designers designed her to be a stereotype, but the actress really brought her to life, with a really stellar performance through Half Life 2 and EP 1 and 2. Little things about her, like her genuine distress for her father and her relationships with other characters like Barney or Prof. Magnusson.
It's not what shes says, but how she says it that makes her much deeper as a character I reckon.
