America vs EU?

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GeorgW

ALL GLORY TO ME!
Aug 27, 2010
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Metalhandkerchief said:
GeorgW said:
Norway is not EU. But I do agree with you otherwise.
I have been using the shortened form of "Europe" i.e. "EU" before the inception of the European Union, which - if we get technical about it, is the "E.U." not the "EU".
While that is true, it's still confusing. How hard is it to write Europe? And I'm sure there are others out there that don't know the difference.

scumofsociety said:
I do occasionally jump in to correct things when I see factual inaccuracies or assumptions about certain things that just aren't in line with stats and such but generally I leave them alone.
The you have better restraint than me. Or you're just not as bored, not sure which.
 

RanD00M

New member
Oct 26, 2008
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Hardcore_gamer said:
My father owns a farming company that grows Roses among other things, its been a family company for over 50 years. If we join the EU then shops will just start importing foreign Roses/products for slightly less money, and then his company as well as all of the similar companies in the country are fucked.
Well has your father ever heard of the word EXPORT. You know, the opposite of import. He could make something from that.
And imported products would not rule the market. Because we have grown accustomed to our own nations produce, and as it is now, most of our product is better than anything that other countries make.

And I'm going to drop this word again, EXPORT!!! Farmers and Fishermen and all around produce workers would be able to export. Many people in the nearest European countries will admit that Icelandic milk, cheese and butter is quite fucking delicious. And us tapping that market could help us out a lot in the long run.
 

Wintermoot

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Aug 20, 2009
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the EU sucks! almost all of the taxmoney goes to needy countrys that only join to get rid of debts! atleast you guys have NUKES! those rule
 

KeyMaster45

Gone Gonzo
Jun 16, 2008
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GeorgW said:
Are you talking about words like neighbour/neighbor and colour/color? Because it was originally ou, but the Americans were too stupid to spell, so they had to change it.

I realize that I may be coming off as some nationalistic EU dumbass, but I want to assure you I'm not. I love the American culture, especially American TV and movies. I simply, for once, want to have a muture conversation about this topic, and see it as my duty to correct everyone like a damn factnazi.
Yet you just called us all idiots simply because our dialect and vernacular evolved differently than yours once the two cultures were separated by an entire ocean. Frankly you've lost any possible credibility you may have had after that statement. No, you don't come off as a "nationalistic EU dumbass" you just flat come across as a dumbass and a douche who obviously harbors some sort of subconscious animosity towards the US culture; otherwise you wouldn't be spouting such ignorant and hateful dialogue as "the Americans were too stupid to spell".

Actually, you want to be a fact-nazi; let's rumble. Technically calling citizens of the US "Americans" is so grossly incorrect it's a wonder you made it out of grade school. Using the term "Americans" implies that the US has control over the entirety of both North and South America or that you are referring to all those who live on the American continents. In one instance you're making a gross generalization and the other you're confusing an economic sphere of influence with actual annexation of land.

The EU is not a country on it's own; it is a coalition of countries. All countries that signed on to the treaty still retain their autonomy. Were the EU an actual autonomous country then there would be significantly less seats at the UN since they would have all been consolidated into a single representative seat for the EU. What's more the EU has a loose grip on power over the countries signed on to it at best since the last I checked the UK still had not converted over to using the Euro and pretty much told the EU's "governing body" to bugger off when it disapproved of their budget proposal earlier in the year. Long story short, you cannot be a "nationalistic EU dumbass" unless the EU were an actual autonomous country.

You claim to be in command of facts, yet you don't display even an infinitesimal grasp upon the basics.

 

Shycte

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Mar 10, 2009
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rokkolpo said:
People you are all forgetting the major thing.

us Dutch have legalised weed!
yeah...sorry for that.
Well yes but, haven't you legalised like everything? ;)
 

Nickolai77

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Apr 3, 2009
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RanD00M said:
Hardcore_gamer said:
My father owns a farming company that grows Roses among other things, its been a family company for over 50 years. If we join the EU then shops will just start importing foreign Roses/products for slightly less money, and then his company as well as all of the similar companies in the country are fucked.
Well has your father ever heard of the word EXPORT. You know, the opposite of import. He could make something from that.
And imported products would not rule the market. Because we have grown accustomed to our own nations produce, and as it is now, most of our product is better than anything that other countries make.

And I'm going to drop this word again, EXPORT!!! Farmers and Fishermen and all around produce workers would be able to export. Many people in the nearest European countries will admit that Icelandic milk, cheese and butter is quite fucking delicious. And us tapping that market could help us out a lot in the long run.
Just to back you up:


Iceland is in the European Economic Area, and so while it can freely trade with the EU, it has to adopt all EU legislation related to the EU single market, except with regards to agriculture and fisheries.

But basically, joining the EU would give Iceland more political power because, with Iceland being represented on the EU council, and with Icelanders in the Commission and Parliament, Iceland will have a say on legislation which effects Iceland. Otherwise, Iceland is virtually a satellite state because it has no say on EU legislation.

Plus, considering how shaken up the Icelandic currency was after the banking crisis, joining the Eurozone might be a better idea.
 

GeorgW

ALL GLORY TO ME!
Aug 27, 2010
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KeyMaster45 said:
GeorgW said:
Are you talking about words like neighbour/neighbor and colour/color? Because it was originally ou, but the Americans were too stupid to spell, so they had to change it.

I realize that I may be coming off as some nationalistic EU dumbass, but I want to assure you I'm not. I love the American culture, especially American TV and movies. I simply, for once, want to have a muture conversation about this topic, and see it as my duty to correct everyone like a damn factnazi.
Yet you just called us all idiots simply because our dialect and vernacular evolved differently than yours once the two cultures were separated by an entire ocean. Frankly you've lost any possible credibility you may have had after that statement. No, you don't come off as a "nationalistic EU dumbass" you just flat come across as a dumbass and a douche who obviously harbors some sort of subconscious animosity towards the US culture; otherwise you wouldn't be spouting such ignorant and hateful dialogue as "the Americans were too stupid to spell".

Actually, you want to be a fact-nazi; let's rumble. Technically calling citizens of the US "Americans" is so grossly incorrect it's a wonder you made it out of grade school. Using the term "Americans" implies that the US has control over the entirety of both North and South America or that you are referring to all those who live on the American continents. In one instance you're making a gross generalization and the other you're confusing an economic sphere of influence with actual annexation of land.

The EU is not a country on it's own; it is a coalition of countries. All countries that signed on to the treaty still retain their autonomy. Were the EU an actual autonomous country then there would be significantly less seats at the UN since they would have all been consolidated into a single representative seat for the EU. What's more the EU has a loose grip on power over the countries signed on to it at best since the last I checked the UK still had not converted over to using the Euro and pretty much told the EU's "governing body" to bugger off when it disapproved of their budget proposal earlier in the year. Long story short, you cannot be a "nationalistic EU dumbass" unless the EU were an actual autonomous country.

You claim to be in command of facts, yet you don't display even an infinitesimal grasp upon the basics.

Actually, I've already been corrected on that and apologized. Please read through the thread before posting. And I never said I knew any fact, just that I didn't want to come off as someone that do. Because I don't.
 

Razgovory

New member
Sep 27, 2010
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I'm curious, how can someone be an "EU nationalist"? The EU isn't even a country, let a alone a nation. In practice it's little more then a super-national regulatory agency. A closer analogy would be the EU vs the OAS.
 

Shycte

New member
Mar 10, 2009
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Nickolai77 said:
RanD00M said:
Hardcore_gamer said:
My father owns a farming company that grows Roses among other things, its been a family company for over 50 years. If we join the EU then shops will just start importing foreign Roses/products for slightly less money, and then his company as well as all of the similar companies in the country are fucked.
Well has your father ever heard of the word EXPORT. You know, the opposite of import. He could make something from that.
And imported products would not rule the market. Because we have grown accustomed to our own nations produce, and as it is now, most of our product is better than anything that other countries make.

And I'm going to drop this word again, EXPORT!!! Farmers and Fishermen and all around produce workers would be able to export. Many people in the nearest European countries will admit that Icelandic milk, cheese and butter is quite fucking delicious. And us tapping that market could help us out a lot in the long run.
Just to back you up:


Iceland is in the European Economic Area, and so while it can freely trade with the EU, it has to adopt all EU legislation related to the EU single market, except with regards to agriculture and fisheries.

But basically, joining the EU would give Iceland more political power because, with Iceland being represented on the EU council, and with Icelanders in the Commission and Parliament, Iceland will have a say on legislation which effects Iceland. Otherwise, Iceland is virtually a satellite state because it has no say on EU legislation.

Plus, considering how shaken up the Icelandic currency was after the banking crisis, joining the Eurozone might be a better idea.
Don't really know how much political influence they could get though, with Germany and Great Britain basicly running the whole thing. You get seats based on your population number you know.
 

fishman279

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Oct 29, 2009
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I get into international pissing contests almost every time I see my friends. I am English. I live in France. It's quite problematic at times, the best being the time me and my best friend were shouting (at the top of our voices) at each other about France's impact on WWII... In the middle of a history lesson. The teacher was not best pleased. Good times...
 

Stephanos132

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Sep 7, 2009
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Lot of pro-EU types here...

Also
The Austin said:
TheRightToArmBears said:
EU>US

Do you want to know why?

Proper beer.
You call warm beer proper? We laugh at you! Ha-ha-ha!
Where have you been drinking to get a warm beer? In my experiences, you can get either lagers, which are served cold (or close to freezing if you want) and then ales which aren't exactly room temperature either. Perhaps I've just been lucky...
 

Stephanos132

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Sep 7, 2009
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Shycte said:
Germany and Great Britain basicly running the whole thing. You get seats based on your population number you know.
We are? That's not the impression we've been getting at home. More just funding it and getting the finger back in return...

Edit: Whoops, doubled up there...
 

acosn

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Sep 11, 2008
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Metalhandkerchief said:
Mcface said:
Metalhandkerchief said:
I have a reason for saying EU > USA.

EU is home to Scandinavia (Canada-is-America's-hat-translation: Norway, Sweden and Denmark) the countries with the most well functioning society models on the planet.

USA has also the highest annual murder rate in the world with about 11,000 deaths. In comparison, the 2nd highest annual murder rate is Germany, with 60 to 80. This alone is reason enough to never set foot in that hell hole.
Germany population: 82,110,097
America population: 307,006,550

Gee I wonder why there are more murders.
So you're saying 3.4 times larger population warrants 130 times more murders?

Actually, if you add up all of EU's countries, there are under 1000 murders. EU has twice the population of America, yet America still has over 10 times as many murders.

Your logic scares me, or your math. One of those anyway.
The statistics are always padded.

Badly.

I don't even believe any stats posted on the subject unless there's a source given that divulges how they reached such numbers.
 

TurboPanda

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Apr 19, 2010
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Ethnocentrism: belief in the superiority of one's own ethnic group

Nobody is going to admit the other side is better so this entire thread is pointless.
 

The Long Road

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Sep 3, 2010
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As odd as this next statement will sound, I have an explanation for it.

Comparing the United States to Europe/the EU is really comparing apples to oranges.

What? Comparisons of similar countries are invalid? Why do I say these crazy things? Well, it has mostly to do with the origins of the countries.

European history is a much longer story than American history, and much of it is filled with monarchies arising during or immediately after the Dark Ages. With the feudal system so rigidly organized, it became accepted that governments had the final say in what happened, and the lowest classes (mostly serfs of the royalty) grouped together to exist as a commune rather than individuals. This helped them feed themselves more efficiently and allowed for some form of contact with equals, rather than constantly being ordered around by their many levels of social superiors. This mindset outlived the monarchies from which they formed and gave Europe the left-winged slant it has today. Quite often, the group is seen as more important than the individual, and that is reflected in the Socialist or pseudo-Socialist nature of most European governments. These governments have a long, powerful reach, and the general consensus of the populace is that they are the sheltering protectors. Trying to include an American-style limited government would leave people hopelessly wondering where their big brother went when it was such a big part of the country.

The United States, however, was formed by English malcontents, who were followed by malcontents from all countries of Europe, and eventually the world. These people saw their governments as power-hungry and dominating, and simply wanted to be left alone. They formed a new, limited government in the New World, and built a country around it. The mindset of the people was that their government should not have such an influence on the people, and they lived according to it. This is seen in the center-right nature of the American populace. Recent swings to the left notwithstanding, the US government is usually kept small(ish) and out of the way, at least comparatively. The American people prefer to sacrifice the safety of a powerful, protective government for the freedom to do most anything they like. The implementation of a European-style Socialist government would be met with outrage at best. The worst-case scenario is a military mutiny at the highest level. and a popular uprising from everywhere that is not the East Coast and southern California.

So Europe is more community- or group-oriented, and the United States is more individual-centric. Trying to compare the two comes down to a matter of personal preference. All other concerns are secondary to this.

Personally, I like the option of choosing my medical care, retirement plans, financial options, etc. But I can easily see how a state-run entity for any of these would be lucrative to some people.
 

darth gditch

Dark Gamer of the Sith
Jun 3, 2009
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Metalhandkerchief said:
Mcface said:
Metalhandkerchief said:
I have a reason for saying EU > USA.

EU is home to Scandinavia (Canada-is-America's-hat-translation: Norway, Sweden and Denmark) the countries with the most well functioning society models on the planet.

USA has also the highest annual murder rate in the world with about 11,000 deaths. In comparison, the 2nd highest annual murder rate is Germany, with 60 to 80. This alone is reason enough to never set foot in that hell hole.
Germany population: 82,110,097
America population: 307,006,550

Gee I wonder why there are more murders.
So you're saying 3.4 times larger population warrants 130 times more murders?

Actually, if you add up all of EU's countries, there are under 1000 murders. EU has twice the population of America, yet America still has over 10 times as many murders.

Your logic scares me, or your math. One of those anyway.
Um, guys? El Salvador has the world's highest murder rate per 100,000 people at 71.

And murders per 100,000 people is the way you properly compare murder rates, not raw number of deaths, because that skews towards smaller countries being "safer." However, Germany does have a much lower murder rate than the United States, 0.86 per 100,000 versus 5.0 per 100,000.

EDIT: Sorry, wrote 10,000 the first time and I meant 100,000.
 

demoman_chaos

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May 25, 2009
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France saved the US in our Revolutionary War, but we saved France from the Germans twice.
France owes us a save in WWIII. We are about even with England, killed each other twice but saved each other twice (The RAF saved England, which saved us from fighting the Nazi's alone but we showed up and tag-teamed them Germans).

But Europe does have Rome and Greece, the 2 best historical places.
 

Giest4life

The Saucepan Man
Feb 13, 2010
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Damn right, dude. Though I have to say, I think American writers aren't worth jack. Just an opinion, of course.