American Sniper

[Zef Otter]

Anyone saw this yet? It's an ok movie that is pretty much...propaganda. They leave out the unsavory bits of his life (that was in his books)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B707buDCcAA6piD.jpg Here is some screen shots from the film!

Just kidding but it really does remind me of that movie from Inglorious Bastards.

So what do you guys think? Why do they take out all the bad parts about this guy to give us a rather bland hero? If this guy is such a hero like people say he is then they should not be afraid to show us his ugly side.


Also he is known to lie about himself: http://mpmacting.com/blog/2014/7/19/truth-justice-and-the-curious-case-of-chris-kyle

 

[chaser5000]

It was a good movie, not the greatest movie but I'll probably watch it again sometime.

I've never read the book but I think if they left parts out I think it's because of the ending

Spoiler

the whole him being murdered thing, and it being pretty recently they didn't want to speak ill of the dead

 

[Zef Otter]

It was a good movie, not the greatest movie but I'll probably watch it again sometime.

I've never read the book but I think if they left parts out I think it's because of the ending

Spoiler

the whole him being murdered thing, and it being pretty recently they didn't want to speak ill of the dead

I guess but its dumb to gloss over the bad parts of him to just make him the "real American hero" that protected Merica from the bad people! Rather then just a man who served in Iraq.

 

[tippy2k2]

See, I don't think it glossed over his bad parts at all (although I have NOT read the book so maybe he does something else). I am assuming Spoilers are good to go here so soft SPOILER ALERT just in case...

SPOILER ALERT!

I mean, shit, he kills a kid, repeatedly abandons his wife, clearly has some anger issues crop up from the PTSD (as well as regular old PTSD); I thought the one thing the movie did really well was show the toll it took on the man and how the war was changing him. I suppose they didn't include whatever went down with Jesse Ventura but I thought that was a good decision as it would kind of come out of left field for anyone not familiar with the story.

I don't think it was the best war movie (or even the best modern war PTSD movie as I think "Hurt Locker" pulled that off better) but I enjoyed it. I don't regret spending movie theater price to go see it.

There are only two changes I'd have preferred; first is show his actual talent with the rifle. The moving car was a good start and obviously the "mile shot" at the end but the vast majority of his shots in the movie were stationary targets with no clue they were being targeted. The second thing is I would have liked the "villains" to be a lot less cartoony-evil (seriously, the Butcher might as well have been Super Evil Hitler for all the characterization it did of him as well as Syrian Sniper guy could have been developed) but I suppose if we're looking at this through Kyle's eyes, that's probably what he saw them as.

 

[Zef Otter]

See, I don't think it glossed over his bad parts at all (although I have NOT read the book so maybe he does something else). I am assuming Spoilers are good to go here so soft SPOILER ALERT just in case...

SPOILER ALERT!

I mean, shit, he kills a kid, repeatedly abandons his wife, clearly has some anger issues crop up from the PTSD (as well as regular old PTSD); I thought the one thing the movie did really well was show the toll it took on the man and how the war was changing him. I suppose they didn't include whatever went down with Jesse Ventura but I thought that was a good decision as it would kind of come out of left field for anyone not familiar with the story.

I don't think it was the best war movie (or even the best modern war PTSD movie as I think "Hurt Locker" pulled that off better) but I enjoyed it. I don't regret spending movie theater price to go see it.

There are only two changes I'd have preferred; first is show his actual talent with the rifle. The moving car was a good start and obviously the "mile shot" at the end but the vast majority of his shots in the movie were stationary targets with no clue they were being targeted. The second thing is I would have liked the "villains" to be a lot less cartoony-evil (seriously, the Butcher might as well have been Super Evil Hitler for all the characterization it did of him as well as Syrian Sniper guy could have been developed) but I suppose if we're looking at this through Kyle's eyes, that's probably what he saw them as.

https://storify.com/RaniaKhalek/american-sniper-chris-kyle-in-his-own-words

They did did gloss over the fact he lied about going to New Orleans and shooting 30 looters and punching Jesse Ventura (and chris-kyle got sued for it and lost). Also it covers up his racism.

 

[tippy2k2]

https://storify.com/RaniaKhalek/american-sniper-chris-kyle-in-his-own-words

They did did gloss over the fact he lied about going to New Orleans and shooting 30 looters and punching Jesse Ventura (and chris-kyle got sued for it and lost). Also it covers up his racism.

See, even that, I think they portrayed it in the film. He called them savages multiple times. He called the enemy "pure evil" (referring to when they sent the kid to throw the grenade). He stated in the movie the only regret was the he couldn't save more Americans (NOT that he had to keep shooting people). Even my complaint about "cartoon evil" I stated that I think it was shown that way to show you his thinking rather than "real life". I thought they made it pretty clear that he was essentially addicted to war because he kept abandoning his family to go back to war.

There's probably a lot more in there (I read the top five tweets) and maybe it's just my interpretation of how Cooper played him but I thought what we saw on screen is what those tweets are describing; a very disturbed man who was very good at his job.

 

[Zef Otter]

https://storify.com/RaniaKhalek/american-sniper-chris-kyle-in-his-own-words

They did did gloss over the fact he lied about going to New Orleans and shooting 30 looters and punching Jesse Ventura (and chris-kyle got sued for it and lost). Also it covers up his racism.

See, even that, I think they portrayed it in the film. He called them savages multiple times. He called the enemy "pure evil" (referring to when they sent the kid to throw the grenade). He stated in the movie the only regret was the he couldn't save more Americans (NOT that he had to keep shooting people). Even my complaint about "cartoon evil" I stated that I think it was shown that way to show you his thinking rather than "real life". I thought they made it pretty clear that he was essentially addicted to war because he kept abandoning his family to go back to war.

There's probably a lot more in there (I read the top five tweets) and maybe it's just my interpretation of how Cooper played him but I thought what we saw on screen is what those tweets are describing; a very disturbed man who was very good at his job.

But is he really a hero? I see a lot of right wingers on twitter saying that he is an american hero and protecting our rights. While saying anyone who don't like this movie is un-american.

 

[Lilani]

I'm hearing a lot of distaste for it among internet film buffs. I haven't seen it, but I have seen this segment posted to Bob's twitter feed where its plainly obvious that there's a laughably obvious plastic baby standing in for a real baby in a scene that is otherwise super serious u guise!

"Not a parody. Not an edit. An actual scene from a real movie nominated for Best Picture that just made $100 million+"

OMG I came here just to post that video, lol. I help make TV commercials and we tend to cut corners and cheat to fit our budget and time constraints, but I am absolutely certain we would not have allowed something that horrifically fake to hit the airwaves. We would have gotten a real baby, shot it differently, or just scrapped the whole idea. Fake babies are for long distance, mostly out of frame, or stunt shots. NOT for lengthy shots in the center of the damn frame.

Anyway, on topic, I haven't seen the movie and nor do I plan to. It seems like one of those insufferable patriotic films which exploits both America's tendency to idolize soldiers, and our subsequent desire to idealize the wars in which we engage so that there's no moral ambiguity surrounding our military or soldiers.

 

[Inglorious891]

https://storify.com/RaniaKhalek/american-sniper-chris-kyle-in-his-own-words

They did did gloss over the fact he lied about going to New Orleans and shooting 30 looters and punching Jesse Ventura (and chris-kyle got sued for it and lost). Also it covers up his racism.

See, even that, I think they portrayed it in the film. He called them savages multiple times. He called the enemy "pure evil" (referring to when they sent the kid to throw the grenade). He stated in the movie the only regret was the he couldn't save more Americans (NOT that he had to keep shooting people). Even my complaint about "cartoon evil" I stated that I think it was shown that way to show you his thinking rather than "real life". I thought they made it pretty clear that he was essentially addicted to war because he kept abandoning his family to go back to war.

There's probably a lot more in there (I read the top five tweets) and maybe it's just my interpretation of how Cooper played him but I thought what we saw on screen is what those tweets are describing; a very disturbed man who was very good at his job.

But is he really a hero? I see a lot of right wingers on twitter saying that he is an american hero and protecting our rights. While saying anyone who don't like this movie is un-american.

I've also been told by two democrats that American Sniper is a movie every American needs to see so they can experience at least part of what this guy went through for us, so I really don't see your point in demonizing right wingers.

And I also don't see how your "But is he really a hero?" point is related to your "lol dem cray republicans" point.

 

[Zhukov]

Meh.

Even disregarding the plentiful amounts of yank-wank, I found it pretty dull. Especially the scenes of his wife being pregnant and crying a lot.

The True Story angle falls pretty flat too. Are they really trying to tell me that The Butcher tortured a kid while in an exposed position during a firefight, in which the Syrian super-sniper guy kept the All American Hero's head down long enough to prevent him from saving the kid? Or that the All American Hero later killed said super-sniper during a climactic sniper duel in the face of an impending sand storm?

I was honestly expecting there to be scene where the Syrian super-sniper kills his brother.

I agree with Moviebob on this one. If they wanted to tell the story of this guy's life, they should have just made a documentary.

 

[tippy2k2]

[But is he really a hero? I see a lot of right wingers on twitter saying that he is an american hero and protecting our rights. While saying anyone who don't like this movie is un-american.

Then those people are idiots (on either side of the aisle).

I'm of the mind that our soldiers are brave for doing a job that I couldn't do but "Hero" is a little far (well, the good ones are but I figure that should go without saying). As to being "un-american", it's a movie. If you are less of an American for not liking a movie then I don't want to be an American anymore because that's incredibly shallow and stupid way of showing your patriotism.

Unless you don't like Rock IV of course when Stallone defeats communism by beating someone up; hating Rocky IV is grounds for treason in my book.

[small]I don't have to put "I'm joking" about Rocky IV, right? Well...it is the internet; someone is bound to assume I'm 100% serious[/small]

 

[Lionsfan]

Anyway, on topic, I haven't seen the movie and nor do I plan to. It seems like one of those insufferable patriotic films which exploits both America's tendency to idolize soldiers, and our subsequent desire to idealize the wars in which we engage so that there's no moral ambiguity surrounding our military or soldiers.

Basically what Lilani said above me, and also I don't really like Clint Eastwood as a director. He just seems so....straight foward. I dunno how to explain it, but his movies haven't really appealed to me, at least none of the movies he's directed from the last decade or so. Letters from Iwo Jima was the only one that I really enjoyed

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

It's an okay movie. Very good acting on Cooper's end, and thank god for that because it's the only end there is. Rest of the characters are just names on a script. Couldn't care about any of his war buddies. The wife is a bit annoying and her calls reminded me of the other annoying, useless Mrs. from War World Z and how she had a penchant for calling at the worst possible times. I don't think it's propaganda, Eastwood should be above that, going by Flags of Our Fathers and Letters From Iwo Jima. It certainly feels that way at times. But it's less about the actual war and more about the protagonist's transformation. It didn't feel like he had anything to say about the actual war, except how it had impacted on this one person.

 

[Jux]

Anyone saw this yet? It's an ok movie that is pretty much...propaganda. They leave out the unsavory bits of his life (that was in his books)

Saw it, never read his book or knew anything about him other than that he was killed two years ago at a shooting range. Knowing zero backstory, I felt the movie was heavy on the 'America is the Best' drum, but Cooper did a pretty good job I think in his role.

It's strange, because I think I came away with a much different impression than most of the people in that theater with me. I saw a soldier who killed a lot of people, and had an incredibly hard time finding a sense of normalcy outside of a battlefield, much to the detriment of his family and himself. And when he finally starts making some progess, he gets killed by another veteran with mental health issues. If anything it could be seen as a massive criticism of the way we help (or rather, don't adaquately help) soldiers coming back to civilian life.

At the end of the movie, I heard more people talking about how we should be 'killing all dem terrorists' rather than seeing how monumentally fucked this guys head had become over four tours in Iraq doing the very thing they claimed we should be doing more of. Yeesh.

 

[AT God]

I haven't seen it, I don't see movies in theaters very often and based on what I have heard about it I probably wont see it. I think the debate over whether or not it is good comes down to your opinions on the overall war and stuff. I am fairly against the war and how it was handled so when I heard the trailer I had hoped it was a historical fiction movie about the evils of war and the tough decisions that must be made, the trailer featured a crosshair on a child so I assumed it was going that route and hoped it would be sort of like a movie version of Spec Ops the Line, focusing on the morality of warfare. When I heard it was an essentially a biopic of a man who served I was immediately disinterested because there would probably be some picking and choosing of certain elements. I completely understand avoiding certain more distasteful events because our culture still paints a picture that there is some good in fighting wars and that it does create heroes we should worship, which is arguable, especially if you ask the opposing force.

And people debating on Twitter over whether or not hes a hero is about as big a waste of time as any debate on Twitter. People who think the invasion was just will think anyone who kills the enemy is heroic, and people who oppose the war will bring up findings regarding the atrocities that accompany every war. I do it all the time when I discuss the war with my family members, pro-war people mention 9/11, terrorism, and how these groups want to kill us and I mention the hundreds of thousands of noncombatants who have died purely because they live in the same place that a very small group of bad people also inhabit. No one changes their mind and nothing happens.

The one thing that has really made me think differently about the whole politics of the war has been my looking at foreign takes on the war, I like to watch British panel shows and some of the things said on those shows or by guests are really interesting because of the perspective. Arguably one of the more controversial comics, Frankie Boyle, made a few comments about how other nations receive these Hollywood movies. He joked many years ago about how the invasion of Iraq will mean that we are in for a bunch of shitty movies in about 10 years time, and if American Sniper is shown over there and he doesn't like it, he will have hit the nail on the head with the time frame.

 

[happyninja42]

Anyone saw this yet? It's an ok movie that is pretty much...propaganda. They leave out the unsavory bits of his life (that was in his books)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B707buDCcAA6piD.jpg Here is some screen shots from the film!

Just kidding but it really does remind me of that movie from Inglorious Bastards.

So what do you guys think? Why do they take out all the bad parts about this guy to give us a rather bland hero? If this guy is such a hero like people say he is then they should not be afraid to show us his ugly side.


Also he is known to lie about himself: http://mpmacting.com/blog/2014/7/19/truth-justice-and-the-curious-case-of-chris-kyle

Why would they dramatize his exploits in the military and try to make him out to be some patriotic poster boy for the American military and patriotism? Well, because it's a movie about the US military, so it's pretty much guaranteed to make bank off every jingo-crazy, 'Murica!! Fuck Yeah!' kind of movie goer. They won't actually care if the movie is good, they just want to wave their little flag in their chest, and maybe in the theater, who knows, and feel like they're "supportin' our troops"

I've already seen news articles where people are decrying anyone who talks bad about the movie as "cowards", and insulting them for not "supporting our troops". Not surprising, considering Michael Moore's "snipers are cowards" comment earlier in the week, but these other celebrities are directing their venom at the movie goes and critics of the movie, not at Mr. Moore.

I see this mentality a lot at my job in the VA. It's this really disturbing mindset that really freaks me out. One of my coworkers stated once, after seeing a news article criticizing the government, and it's policies about the military. "They shouldn't be allowed to talk bad, or criticize the government while we have troops deployed. That's just wrong." To which I responded "Um, we've been in a perpetual state of war for 25 years now, having some troops deployed somewhere for combat purposes...that's 6 different presidential terms, and I don't even know about the other government branches worth of legislation and policies. Do you really think we have no right to criticize them and call them to task for what they've done, simply because they keep troops deployed somewhere??" And he truly believes that stuff. It's...maddening to me.

I appreciate the work our military does for us, but they aren't gods, they aren't holy guardian angels, they're just people, many of which joined the military, not out of any patriotic desire to serve their country, but because they knew it would be a good job if they stayed in for 20 years, with an easy retirement. Seriously, most service members who walk through my door are of this type. Which is fine, it's a job, and it needs to be done, and they decided to do it. But to try and deify them and anything they do is just wrong, and horrifying to me.

Ok, so, yeah, that rant out of my system. Haven't seen the movie, don't plan on it, everything I've heard is that it's a fairly bad movie, as far as movies go, and I don't really watch military movies anymore because of this very mindset I'm talking about.

 

[flashoverride]

DELETED

 

[Smooth Operator]

Because that is how hero movies are made, you show the good stuff and omit the rest, then everyone lives happily ever after... or dies very heroic like.

Go ask a history buff how many war movies are legit and you will be in for a shock.