American Sniper

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

It's a piece of shit movie glorifying a psychopath and the war where America was actually the bad guys.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Haven't seen it, don't even know when it's coming out where I live, and even then I doubt I will. But looking at the buzz it seems to be causing, it opens another window for us outsiders to peek into the American way of thinking. As a citizen of a small northeastern european country, the idea that your country's military is somehow serving you, protecting innocents and laying their lives on the line for a noble cause, or that merely going on a tour in Afghanistan or whatever makes you some sort of patriotic hero, is frankly quite disturbing. Even when it's your country that's come into another one's territory.

 

[davidmc1158_v1legacy]

Because that is how hero movies are made, you show the good stuff and omit the rest, then everyone lives happily ever after... or dies very heroic like.

Go ask a history buff how many war movies are legit and you will be in for a shock.

The only two I can think of off the top of my head are Tora! Tora! Tora! and Glory. Both are still fairly heavily romanticized, but they at least have a large number of the details correct.

OT: Form what I can gather (I haven't seen the movie myself), some of the acting is pretty good while some isn't. The movie does truncate the book to leave a few things out, which is standard when adapting a book into a movie.

The main problem doesn't seem to have anything to do with the movie itself, but the assumptions concerning the war that the viewer already held independent of the movie and that the viewer feels are called into question or are highlighted by the film. As such, the movie sparks off the same debates which people would have had if the movie had never been made.

 

[BOOM headshot65]

I just got back from seeing it, and franky I have no idea what the people in this thread are going on about. I only heard good things going in to it, so I have no idea where people have been hearing that it is bad. And it lived up to the hype. It was just as good or better than I heard it was going to be. And the ending. That was the first time I have ever seen people stay through the credits of a movie and it was total silence in the packed theater (except for some sniffles here and there).

Of course, the town I live in is near One of the militaries premier Army bases [http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Riley] and a large chunk of the town is soldiers who live off-post, so that may have something to do with it.

 

[tippy2k2]

I just got back from seeing it, and franky I have no idea what the people in this thread are going on about. I only heard good things going in to it, so I have no idea where people have been hearing that it is bad. And it lived up to the hype. It was just as good or better than I heard it was going to be. And the ending. That was the first time I have ever seen people stay through the credits of a movie and it was total silence in the packed theater (except for some sniffles here and there).

Of course, the town I live in is near One of the militaries premier Army bases [http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Riley] and a large chunk of the town is soldiers who live off-post, so that may have something to do with it.

Spoiler Alert once again for those of you silly enough to enter this thread and not expect spoilers...

I agree with most of what you said except for the part about the ending. Honestly though, I don't know how else Eastwood could have ended it. You HAVE to address how Kyle died; you can't just leave that part out and end with sunshine and rainbows as he's finally been able to defeat (or at least suppress) the demons that have followed him home. However, actually showing it probably would have gone to the "Too much" side of the road (especially since there is controversy over how/why it happened)...

I don't know, for whatever reason, I didn't care for the way it ended. Anticlimactic isn't quite the right way to put it but I thought the way it ended was just a whimper rather than a bang. Although maybe it's because I knew it was coming so the sunshine and rainbows that the movie was showing I knew was going to end with sadness...

 

[LetalisK]

But is he really a hero? I see a lot of right wingers on twitter saying that he is an american hero and protecting our rights. While saying anyone who don't like this movie is un-american.

There's also people saying the Jews are coming to take our money. Everyone has an opinion and almost none of them should matter to you. Except for mine. Always listen to me.

 

[LetalisK]

Sorry for the double post, but just noticed this:

At the end of the movie, I heard more people talking about how we should be 'killing all dem terrorists' rather than seeing how monumentally fucked this guys head had become over four tours in Iraq doing the very thing they claimed we should be doing more of. Yeesh.

It seems you got the point of the movie. However, people aren't big on nuance and subtlety. See all the sentiments of "America, fuck yeah!" or "There is too much America, fuck yeah!"

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

But is he really a hero? I see a lot of right wingers on twitter saying that he is an american hero and protecting our rights. While saying anyone who don't like this movie is un-american.

He's not a hero. If you read his book you'll see that he had no issues killing people. He thought it was great fun. The guy was a psychopath. That's not an insult, that's truly what he was. And the Iraqis have done nothing wrong to the US. The US invaded Iraq under false pretenses, killed a bunch of people and now we can't have an honest discussion about it anywhere in the media. On top of that, a movie like this comes along and most people don't seem to understand how fucked up it is that a movie like this exists. Americans were not fighting terror in Iraq. You were the terrorists. You destroyed an entire nation and left it in ruins. People involved in that war are war criminals. And no one who fought there managed to protect your precious rights either. If anything, the wars have been used historically as an excuse to subvert human rights, and that's exactly what's happening in America because of this constant state of war that you're in. So no, soldiers are not protecting your rights. They are being used to take more and more of your freedoms every day and to give more power to the government. "Boiling the frog" analogy works well to describe what's going on in America.

 

[Kolby Jack]

But is he really a hero? I see a lot of right wingers on twitter saying that he is an american hero and protecting our rights. While saying anyone who don't like this movie is un-american.

He's not a hero. If you read his book you'll see that he had no issues killing people. He thought it was great fun. The guy was a psychopath. That's not an insult, that's truly what he was. And the Iraqis have done nothing wrong to the US. The US invaded Iraq under false pretenses, killed a bunch of people and now we can't have an honest discussion about it anywhere in the media. On top of that, a movie like this comes along and most people don't seem to understand how fucked up it is that a movie like this exists. Americans were not fighting terror in Iraq. You were the terrorists. You destroyed an entire nation and left it in ruins. People involved in that war are war criminals. And no one who fought there managed to protect your precious rights either. If anything, the wars have been used historically as an excuse to subvert human rights, and that's exactly what's happening in America because of this constant state of war that you're in. So no, soldiers are not protecting your rights. They are being used to take more and more of your freedoms every day and to give more power to the government. "Boiling the frog" analogy works well to describe what's going on in America.

I think you should take a few breaths, dude. First off, this isn't really the right board for this kind of discussion (that would be R&P). Second off, you aren't really talking about the movie anyway, just using it as a convenient springboard to spout your opinions on matter barely tangentially related. Believe what you want, but this isn't the place to talk about it.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

But is he really a hero? I see a lot of right wingers on twitter saying that he is an american hero and protecting our rights. While saying anyone who don't like this movie is un-american.

He's not a hero. If you read his book you'll see that he had no issues killing people. He thought it was great fun. The guy was a psychopath. That's not an insult, that's truly what he was. And the Iraqis have done nothing wrong to the US. The US invaded Iraq under false pretenses, killed a bunch of people and now we can't have an honest discussion about it anywhere in the media. On top of that, a movie like this comes along and most people don't seem to understand how fucked up it is that a movie like this exists. Americans were not fighting terror in Iraq. You were the terrorists. You destroyed an entire nation and left it in ruins. People involved in that war are war criminals. And no one who fought there managed to protect your precious rights either. If anything, the wars have been used historically as an excuse to subvert human rights, and that's exactly what's happening in America because of this constant state of war that you're in. So no, soldiers are not protecting your rights. They are being used to take more and more of your freedoms every day and to give more power to the government. "Boiling the frog" analogy works well to describe what's going on in America.

I think you should take a few breaths, dude. First off, this isn't really the right board for this kind of discussion (that would be R&P). Second off, you aren't really talking about the movie anyway, just using it as a convenient springboard to spout your opinions on matter barely tangentially related. Believe what you want, but this isn't the place to talk about it.

Well first, someone asked about if the guy was a hero and Jensen responded. Seems pretty on topic. All of it is relevant to whether he can possibly be considered a hero. Secondly, the views he expressed are relevant to how people will see the movie. You seem to expect people to not mention something controversial about the movie.

 

[Kolby Jack]

But is he really a hero? I see a lot of right wingers on twitter saying that he is an american hero and protecting our rights. While saying anyone who don't like this movie is un-american.

He's not a hero. If you read his book you'll see that he had no issues killing people. He thought it was great fun. The guy was a psychopath. That's not an insult, that's truly what he was. And the Iraqis have done nothing wrong to the US. The US invaded Iraq under false pretenses, killed a bunch of people and now we can't have an honest discussion about it anywhere in the media. On top of that, a movie like this comes along and most people don't seem to understand how fucked up it is that a movie like this exists. Americans were not fighting terror in Iraq. You were the terrorists. You destroyed an entire nation and left it in ruins. People involved in that war are war criminals. And no one who fought there managed to protect your precious rights either. If anything, the wars have been used historically as an excuse to subvert human rights, and that's exactly what's happening in America because of this constant state of war that you're in. So no, soldiers are not protecting your rights. They are being used to take more and more of your freedoms every day and to give more power to the government. "Boiling the frog" analogy works well to describe what's going on in America.

I think you should take a few breaths, dude. First off, this isn't really the right board for this kind of discussion (that would be R&P). Second off, you aren't really talking about the movie anyway, just using it as a convenient springboard to spout your opinions on matter barely tangentially related. Believe what you want, but this isn't the place to talk about it.

Well first, someone asked about if the guy was a hero and Jensen responded. Seems pretty on topic. All of it is relevant to whether he can possibly be considered a hero. Secondly, the views he expressed are relevant to how people will see the movie. You seem to expect people to not mention something controversial about the movie.

He wrote one sentence about the movie, and then a whole paragraph rant about the war, which is pretty out of place. That's the only point I was making. Don't assume so much.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

But is he really a hero? I see a lot of right wingers on twitter saying that he is an american hero and protecting our rights. While saying anyone who don't like this movie is un-american.

He's not a hero. If you read his book you'll see that he had no issues killing people. He thought it was great fun. The guy was a psychopath. That's not an insult, that's truly what he was. And the Iraqis have done nothing wrong to the US. The US invaded Iraq under false pretenses, killed a bunch of people and now we can't have an honest discussion about it anywhere in the media. On top of that, a movie like this comes along and most people don't seem to understand how fucked up it is that a movie like this exists. Americans were not fighting terror in Iraq. You were the terrorists. You destroyed an entire nation and left it in ruins. People involved in that war are war criminals. And no one who fought there managed to protect your precious rights either. If anything, the wars have been used historically as an excuse to subvert human rights, and that's exactly what's happening in America because of this constant state of war that you're in. So no, soldiers are not protecting your rights. They are being used to take more and more of your freedoms every day and to give more power to the government. "Boiling the frog" analogy works well to describe what's going on in America.

I think you should take a few breaths, dude. First off, this isn't really the right board for this kind of discussion (that would be R&P). Second off, you aren't really talking about the movie anyway, just using it as a convenient springboard to spout your opinions on matter barely tangentially related. Believe what you want, but this isn't the place to talk about it.

Well first, someone asked about if the guy was a hero and Jensen responded. Seems pretty on topic. All of it is relevant to whether he can possibly be considered a hero. Secondly, the views he expressed are relevant to how people will see the movie. You seem to expect people to not mention something controversial about the movie.

He wrote one sentence about the movie, and then a whole paragraph rant about the war, which is pretty out of place. That's the only point I was making. Don't assume so much.

Lol??? What did I assume here?

Also you're ignoring the hero question. The war is relevant to it. And the hero question is relevant to the movie as its based on a real person's life.

 

[Kolby Jack]

But is he really a hero? I see a lot of right wingers on twitter saying that he is an american hero and protecting our rights. While saying anyone who don't like this movie is un-american.

He's not a hero. If you read his book you'll see that he had no issues killing people. He thought it was great fun. The guy was a psychopath. That's not an insult, that's truly what he was. And the Iraqis have done nothing wrong to the US. The US invaded Iraq under false pretenses, killed a bunch of people and now we can't have an honest discussion about it anywhere in the media. On top of that, a movie like this comes along and most people don't seem to understand how fucked up it is that a movie like this exists. Americans were not fighting terror in Iraq. You were the terrorists. You destroyed an entire nation and left it in ruins. People involved in that war are war criminals. And no one who fought there managed to protect your precious rights either. If anything, the wars have been used historically as an excuse to subvert human rights, and that's exactly what's happening in America because of this constant state of war that you're in. So no, soldiers are not protecting your rights. They are being used to take more and more of your freedoms every day and to give more power to the government. "Boiling the frog" analogy works well to describe what's going on in America.

I think you should take a few breaths, dude. First off, this isn't really the right board for this kind of discussion (that would be R&P). Second off, you aren't really talking about the movie anyway, just using it as a convenient springboard to spout your opinions on matter barely tangentially related. Believe what you want, but this isn't the place to talk about it.

Well first, someone asked about if the guy was a hero and Jensen responded. Seems pretty on topic. All of it is relevant to whether he can possibly be considered a hero. Secondly, the views he expressed are relevant to how people will see the movie. You seem to expect people to not mention something controversial about the movie.

He wrote one sentence about the movie, and then a whole paragraph rant about the war, which is pretty out of place. That's the only point I was making. Don't assume so much.

Lol??? What did I assume here?

Also you're ignoring the hero question. The war is relevant to it. And the hero question is relevant to the movie as its based on a real person's life.

I'm not ignoring anything. It's definitely a murky area to talk about an inherently political movie on the off-topic board already. Seems to me Jensen didn't really want to talk about the movie so much as he saw a perfect opportunity to say his piece on a topic normally not allowed to be discussed here. I'm not a mod, but I'm not a fool either, and I can tell when people are abusing the squishier aspects of the rules to break out their megaphone and get on their soapbox. I don't appreciate that sort of crap because it often leads the real discussion astray. But now we're discussing the discussion, so it's already fucked.

 

[jshrike]

It is obvious that the movie took a very accomplished soldier, included some real elements and fictionalized a lot (there is no documentation of an enemy sniper like in the movie; at best, he is a composite of multiple enemy combatants), and did it because it would make for a good story. Whatever Kyle was, there are only fragments of that in then film and honestly I find it far more interesting that he tried to help someone when no one else seemed to then killing a bunch of people in Iraq. But politics and war opinions aside, the movie itself is barely coherent and lacks any real nuance. People seem to feel offended when it is referred to a propaganda, but that really is what it is. And thats not by itself a bad thing.

What bothers me the absolute most is the the majority of the people who see the film and love it will never even consider enlisting. They are basically living and feeling vindicated vicariously through someone else, all while purposefully avoiding those experiences themselves. We should absolutely support our troops because they do sacrifice for this country, but war is not something to be glorified or cheered for. A lot of innocent people were killed by American soldiers, and many of them because they seemed to pose a threat, such as getting too close to a patrol or a road block. That is not even a condemnation of the soldiers who pulled the trigger. They did what they were trained to do. But the war on terror has absolutely decimated the mental state of many soldiers who have come back, and we really do very little to help. Hopefully this movie will change that, hopefully it will give more light on that particular struggle, but that is not how many people talk after they leave. We as a country do not like addressing the terrible stuff we do and the impact it has on us and others, and most people I have talked to after seeing this film seem to feel only more righteous because of the movie.

 

[Lilani]

It seems you got the point of the movie. However, people aren't big on nuance and subtlety. See all the sentiments of "America, fuck yeah!" or "There is too much America, fuck yeah!"

It is rather funny how for so many Americans, "supporting our troops" amounts to getting further involved in a war of attrition which is costing thousands their lives, bodies, or sanity to accomplish next to nothing at all. I have heard so many politicians tell me how to support our troops--buy bonds, fund programs like Wounded Warrior Project, visit the local VA, vote for this and that to fund bigger weapons. It's like it never occurs to them that perhaps the best thing to do for the troops is to not send them into a pointless war in the first place. And in some circles, believing such a thing is actually going AGAINST the troops.

This war is too far from our own borders and too removed from our daily lives for us to really comprehend how much damage we're taking for how little we've accomplished.

 

[LetalisK]

It seems you got the point of the movie. However, people aren't big on nuance and subtlety. See all the sentiments of "America, fuck yeah!" or "There is too much America, fuck yeah!"

It is rather funny how for so many Americans, "supporting our troops" amounts to getting further involved in a war of attrition which is costing thousands their lives, bodies, or sanity to accomplish next to nothing at all. I have heard so many politicians tell me how to support our troops--buy bonds, fund programs like Wounded Warrior Project, visit the local VA, vote for this and that to fund bigger weapons. It's like it never occurs to them that perhaps the best thing to do for the troops is to not send them into a pointless war in the first place. And in some circles, believing such a thing is actually going AGAINST the troops.

This war is too far from our own borders and too removed from our daily lives for us to really comprehend how much damage we're taking for how little we've accomplished.

Even as someone who has been over there, even I only have an inkling of how bad the damage is for some. I have the "privilege" of having fairly minor and manageable mental scars. Edit: Though, to be fair, I do understand the mentality you're describing among the common person.

However, for politicians, it's a different story. I used to be conservative and then more of a libertarian Republican in the vein of Ron Paul, but one of the big things that pushed me away from the Republicans was their unrelenting politicization of the soldiers as a weapon against any that dissented. Now I'm probably more of an old school liberal Democrat, though I've learned to despise Democrats just as much if not more than Republicans.

 

[Dogstile]

But is he really a hero? I see a lot of right wingers on twitter saying that he is an american hero and protecting our rights. While saying anyone who don't like this movie is un-american.

He's not a hero. If you read his book you'll see that he had no issues killing people. He thought it was great fun. The guy was a psychopath. That's not an insult, that's truly what he was. And the Iraqis have done nothing wrong to the US. The US invaded Iraq under false pretenses, killed a bunch of people and now we can't have an honest discussion about it anywhere in the media. On top of that, a movie like this comes along and most people don't seem to understand how fucked up it is that a movie like this exists. Americans were not fighting terror in Iraq. You were the terrorists. You destroyed an entire nation and left it in ruins. People involved in that war are war criminals. And no one who fought there managed to protect your precious rights either. If anything, the wars have been used historically as an excuse to subvert human rights, and that's exactly what's happening in America because of this constant state of war that you're in. So no, soldiers are not protecting your rights. They are being used to take more and more of your freedoms every day and to give more power to the government. "Boiling the frog" analogy works well to describe what's going on in America.

1. The nation was already in ruins, considering they keep attacking eachother
2. Attacking other nations for resources is a time honoured human tradition
3. Psychopaths are useful, the word is not a "win" card.

They war with eachother all the time, but its bad when America does it? Hahaha ok sure thing.