Americans, what's so great about the Imperial System?

[kyuzo3567]

I don't think there's anything inherently 'great' about the Imperial system; it's just what we were raised on and, thus, how we're used to measuring things. It's a pretty easy system to translate physically, too.

I know I can easily lift a pound, not a thousand pounds though.

But I can easily lift a gram and a kilogram; so what's the point?

I agree, it's just a system of measurements. Any organization where measurements matter probably already uses SI conventions and then who really cares if we measure a road trip in miles or km?

Everyone who has to translate between the two systems cares, which includes pretty much everyone who makes the products the rest of you use and depend on. It is a pain in the freaking ass for us, and ends up presenting a potential safety hazard if we proceed with less than our usual care.

Case in point, a recent 125 million dollar orbiter failed simply and solely because Lockheed Martin standardized components in imperial rather than SI units. NASA should have caught the issue prior to launch, but mishaps like this are a hazard every time a company is forced to work with both systems.

Also, senordesol, kilogram is the standard starting unit for most day to day use. Its about 2.2 pounds. Try using that for your standard of comparison rather than a gram.

Of course, it technically is a unit for mass, not weight, comparing it to the English equivalent of slugs would be more accurate, but almost nobody, even Americans, seem to know what the hell a slug is anyways, and going the other way, people don't seem to like using newtons for weight.

Hey, that's your problem, buddy and the only Newtons I care about are those of the 'fig' variety.

In all seriousness, I'd consider changing a measurement system on a national scale almost akin to trying to change a language. I just as I think in English, I think in Imperial. At this point, if we converted to metric, I'd be constantly having to convert measurements into the units I had been raised to understand. When one says "Oh it's about four kilometers that way" I'd instantly think: "Shit. Okay well a kilometer is a little less than a mile, so...what about three and a half miles? Three and a quarter?"

It's 2 1/2 miles almost exactly... just felt like responding with the answer, I know it was an exaggeration.

As someone said above, Southern Ontario and the GTA sucks for sticking with one measurement type. And the thing that bugs me the most is I've always found it really hard to find good recipes online that list things in Metric for ingredient amounts, I always seem to have to convert things when cooking/baking so all my utensils and such actually make sense

 

[kyuzo3567]

Actually the reason is simple. There'd be too much resistance because the imperial system is so ingrained not just in american culture but in thought patterns. That and you'd have to get 50 states to agree on that and we know how impossible that will be.. so long as texas is texas. Remember we're talking about the country actually tried to have Pi legally redefined as 3.2 and got a surprisingly far way along with that plan.


But really, it's more a matter that it's near impossible to standardize anything among all the states these days. The only reason they agreed on Imperial is because it's what the brits left them with and they couldn't agree on a better system.

What? what is wrong with those people? Not only would that fundamentally screw up higher level math and those that use it, but even following the basic math rules of rounding, if anything it should be 3.1 not 3.2....

My brain kind of hurts now

 

[Maze1125]

So answer me this: Using the metric system, how many minutes are in an hour?

Since no one seems to know the answer, I'll provide it:

There are 60 minutes in an hour, regardless of your other units of measurement.

So until the metric system adopts decimal time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_time), it's not all as simple as "dividing by 10".

The real question is: Why hasn't the metric majority converted to decimal time yet?

Because time is used constantly throughout the world. So it's not plausible for one country to switch to metric time without every other country also doing so.

 

[Vegosiux]

Actually the reason is simple. There'd be too much resistance because the imperial system is so ingrained not just in american culture but in thought patterns. That and you'd have to get 50 states to agree on that and we know how impossible that will be.. so long as texas is texas. Remember we're talking about the country actually tried to have Pi legally redefined as 3.2 and got a surprisingly far way along with that plan.


But really, it's more a matter that it's near impossible to standardize anything among all the states these days. The only reason they agreed on Imperial is because it's what the brits left them with and they couldn't agree on a better system.

What? what is wrong with those people? Not only would that fundamentally screw up higher level math and those that use it, but even following the basic math rules of rounding, if anything it should be 3.1 not 3.2....

My brain kind of hurts now

Indeed, plus, redefining pi wouldn't actually change the radius to circumference ratio at all. We'd just need to use a different designation for that, and we'd be left with "pi" that's useless unless you need to factor in 3.200000 somewhere.

 

[Brian Tams]

America is more on a dual measurement system at this point. All the Science fields use metric, and everything else is Imperial. Maybe I'm just the youngest here and as such have the most accurate experience with the public school system, but I learned both measurement systems at an early age.

The reason why its just better to teach is both is that A). You will still be able to function accurately when discussing science since you know the Metric and B). The entire nation won't have to redo every sign, book, and system that has operated on the Imperial system for decades.

Also, its not a 'Murica thing; that would be idiotic, considering the Imperial system was pushed on us by the Brits.

 

[Maze1125]

Also, its not a 'Murica thing; that would be idiotic, considering the Imperial system was pushed on us by the Brits.

That doesn't mean it's not a "'Murica" thing.
There's loads of "'Murica" things that came from Britain first, for obvious reasons. What makes it a "'Murica" thing is when Americans refuse to let go of it. Ya know, like this.

 

[drthmik]

Really it's all arbitrary anyway!
a Meter is just a length of a rod based on some BS reason, same as a foot or a yard
Truth is we couldn't care less what stick you use to measure with
both work equally well and do a fine job of measuring things

so here's the REAL question;
Why do you Europeans get so bent out of shape that we Americans don't use your arbitrary definitions of measurement?

Edit: I'd also like to point out that by simply doing nothing we can piss off millions of people and that amuses us to no end! XD

 

[Vegosiux]

Why do you Europeans get so bent out of shape that we Americans don't use your arbitrary definitions of measurement?

Same reason us continental Europeans get bent out of shape for those silly Brits driving on the left, and you Yanks having a thing for automatic transmission. CONFORMITY MUST BE ENFORCED.

 

[the doom cannon]

speaking as an american engineering student, I tend to appreciate both. I will detail a few instances.
kilometer vs mile: tossup. I can visualize both

feet vs meters: prefer feet for general use, meters for calculations. Easier for me to visualize the subcomponents and multiples of a foot compared to a meter. Plus I've never heard a metric measurement split into quarters or eighths, only halves or tenths. That being said, 1000 meters in a km is much easier to use for calculations than 5280 ft in a mile.

pound vs kilogram: prefer pounds in every instance. This has to do with the more precise nature of pounds. 165.5 lb is a much more precise measurement than 75.1 kg, not to mention that I don't know what a tenth of a kilogram feels like. The subunits make an equal amount of sense to me: none. I don't know what 1 gram feels like and I don't know what 1 ounce feels like. As for calculations, thank god for kips. if they didn't exist I would prefer calculations with kilograms.

Fahrenheit vs Celsius/Centigrade: Prefer Fahrenheit for all cases. Knowing that 32 degrees is when water freezes and 212 degrees when water boils isn't too hard to handle. It is more precise, like with the lb vs kg argument. However, I will concede that Kelvin makes more sense than Rankine, so maybe Celsius isn't so bad.

As for liquid volumes, I prefer the imperial system's units and subunits, except for pints and calculations. I still haven't quite figured those out. I prefer gallons to liters because the gallon is a larger measure, which can be broken into 4 quarts, which are close to a liter each. Liters and mL, and their easy relevance to cubic centimeters is pretty cool tho.

 

[Someone Depressing]

Over my education, I've used both the metric and imperial systems.

I hate them both, I hate maths, I hate anything that involves my arithmatic or mathematical initiative, and I hate how 14 is a "stone". Why a stone? I'll tell you why: 150 lbs. What will you compare it to? Is it good? But 16 stone? No, it's just calling you fat now.

So basically, I hate the metric system for calling me fat. But I use it more, so I guess I preffer it.

 

[Maze1125]

Really it's all arbitrary anyway!
a Meter is just a length of a rod based on some BS reason, same as a foot or a yard
Truth is we couldn't care less what stick you use to measure with
both work equally well and do a fine job of measuring things

so here's the REAL question;
Why do you Europeans get so bent out of shape that we Americans don't use your arbitrary definitions of measurement?

Here's are two arbitrary labelling systems for arranging files with names on.
The first takes the first letter of the person's surname and arranges the file according to that.
The second takes all the letters of the person's surname and the first letter of their first name, converts them to numerical form, sums them, adds 57, converts them back to a letter mod26, and then arranges the file according to that letter.

Both systems are arbitrary and both systems sort the names in 26 different ways and do a "fine" job of sorting the files. But one is needlessly complex and so can reasonably be considered a worse system.

Sure, the difference between metric and imperial isn't as extreme, but imperial is still unnecessarily complex compared to metric.

As for getting "bent out of shape", no-ones doing that. Rather I think most Europeans find it quite amusing that Americans refuse to switch to a better system.

 

[Kyrdra]

What? what is wrong with those people? Not only would that fundamentally screw up higher level math and those that use it, but even following the basic math rules of rounding, if anything it should be 3.1 not 3.2....

My brain kind of hurts now

This is the story I think.
It was in Indiana and not in texas so maybe it is a different story

And for the whole thing of SI vs Imperial: It would propably help the people to slowly change it but it would be pretty expensive

 

[Heronblade]

Really it's all arbitrary anyway!
a Meter is just a length of a rod based on some BS reason, same as a foot or a yard
Truth is we couldn't care less what stick you use to measure with
both work equally well and do a fine job of measuring things

so here's the REAL question;
Why do you Europeans get so bent out of shape that we Americans don't use your arbitrary definitions of measurement?

Actually, the meter is defined using the speed of light, it is a decidedly non arbitrary constant.

In fact, the only SI unit that is not tied to a universal constant of some kind is the Kilogram, and that is only due to a lack of convenient measurements to link it to

 

[Vegosiux]

Really it's all arbitrary anyway!
a Meter is just a length of a rod based on some BS reason, same as a foot or a yard
Truth is we couldn't care less what stick you use to measure with
both work equally well and do a fine job of measuring things

so here's the REAL question;
Why do you Europeans get so bent out of shape that we Americans don't use your arbitrary definitions of measurement?

Actually, the meter is defined using the speed of light, it is a decidedly non arbitrary constant.

In fact, the only SI unit that is not tied to a universal constant of some kind is the Kilogram, and that is only due to a lack of easy measurements to link it to

They could go with 1/12th of a kilomole of Carbon-12, but then we'd have the arbitrary Avogadro's number in it I suppose...

 

[Callate]

That seems completely arbitrary and is probably just based on what you're used to (Fahrenheit). When somebody says the temperatures are going to be in "the thirties", that makes a ton of sense to somebody who is used the Celsius. They'd know to expect a hot summer afternoon.

Anything from 70 to 110 Fahrenheit could be described as "a hot summer day". But to me there's an enormous difference between the 70s (dress more or less as you will), the 80s (better stick to t-shirts and possibly shorts, be mindful getting into hot cars) and the 90s and above (might want to plan a day around hopping between places with air conditioning.) Likewise, I grew up in a place where at 32 people still went outside and played in the snow, but at 0 they started to look at "exposed flesh freezes in 'x' minutes" charts.

Admittedly there's a degree (no pun intended) of the arbitrary about this, but perception does make a difference. There's a reason retailers go out of their way to avoid pricing up to the nearest one hundred; it actually makes a difference in the number of sales. Or in proper planning for weather.

A wider range makes for a more accurate description.

Quite weird. Don't you boil water in day-to-day life? Don't you freeze ice cubes?

If I want to boil water, I put it on a stove until it bubbles vigorously or a tea kettle starts whistling. If I want to freeze water, I put it in a freezer until it's solid.

But if I'm making a casserole, there's about 25 degrees difference between "nicely browned" and "burnt" in Fahrenheit, and only about ten to fifteen in Celsius.

 

[Lieju]

Really it's all arbitrary anyway!
a Meter is just a length of a rod based on some BS reason, same as a foot or a yard
Truth is we couldn't care less what stick you use to measure with
both work equally well and do a fine job of measuring things

so here's the REAL question;
Why do you Europeans get so bent out of shape that we Americans don't use your arbitrary definitions of measurement?

Because people have to deal with both, and it would be practical to have uniformity in this. And since metric is more common and more scientific, it would be better if everyone used it.
And for your information, it's not 'Europeans', it's the predominant system in all other countries than Burma, Liberia and the United States. (Countries like UK use imprial a lot in daily use, though)

Any scientific or engineering field is going to use metric, so converting it to imperial only wastes resources and time.

Imperial is probably the same for daily use, but beyond that...
Madness.

 

[Verlander]

There are many advantages to a dozenal system:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duodecimal

(but metric works better than imperial for the time being)

 

[Maze1125]

A wider range makes for a more accurate description.

Okay, this whole accuracy argument is total bollocks.
If you want accuracy, that's what decimals are for. They go as arbitrarily accurate as you want.
Alternatively, if you don't want to use decimals, then you clearly don't care about accuracy that much.

Either way, accuracy isn't a reasonable excuse to use imperial. You'd be far better of saying "I use imperial because I like it." That, at least, is a valid opinion.

 

[drthmik]

Really it's all arbitrary anyway!
a Meter is just a length of a rod based on some BS reason, same as a foot or a yard
Truth is we couldn't care less what stick you use to measure with
both work equally well and do a fine job of measuring things

so here's the REAL question;
Why do you Europeans get so bent out of shape that we Americans don't use your arbitrary definitions of measurement?

Actually, the meter is defined using the speed of light, it is a decidedly non arbitrary constant.

In fact, the only SI unit that is not tied to a universal constant of some kind is the Kilogram, and that is only due to a lack of easy measurements to link it to

Look at that
Wikipidia agrees with you! sort of...

"The metre is the length of the path travelled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1 / 299,792,458 of a second."

... Wait that's not divisible by 10

And since meters were developed by the french after the french revolution you can't say that the meter is BASED on the speed of light
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_metre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light

and light travels 1 foot in 1 nanosecond
so what?
You carve up the distance light travels into a certain number of chunks
We cave it up into a different number of chunks
that is the definition of arbitrary