An Immortal Society

[Mray3460]

Lately, I've noticed that the media output about new advances in medical technology (Stem cells, Resveratrol, Nano-medicine, and other technologies) has increased in frequency and scope recently. Now, this did stick out to me to a certain degree already since I tend to keep an eye on these things, but what really caught my attention was an episode of "That's Impossible" on the History Channel, focusing on eternal life. Suffice to say, they pretty much pulled together all the latest technology into one setting. Chemical compounds that both slowed aging and decreased body fat retention that could be produced for a penny per ounce, compounds in younger people's blood that could boost an elderly person back to the prime of their life, and even a series of nanobots that (on-screen) ate a malignant tumor inside a rat's body without damaging any of the surrounding tissue. The show concluded with the prediction that "The first person that will live to be 1000, is already 60."

Now, I'm a transhumanist, so initially this statement (taken, of course with not a few grains of salt) got me excited, but I was then overcome with an enormous amount of dread, and even a bit of terror, at the thought that the people who are 60 now would still be around for another 940 years. I sat and thought about how such a scenario could play out. How would the population be kept under control or regulated without natural death slowing the already rapid population growth (I'm not naive enough to believe that a eugenics program of any kind, let alone a proper, unbiased one, could be implemented)? How would resources be controlled? What would age and experience mean if we lived to be 1000? How would authority be distributed? How would children born 500 years from now understand death, or even its concept? Would we be doomed to live under the heel of the baby boomers forever?!

I came up with hundreds of answers to these and many other questions, and quite frankly, the majority of them made me want to go throw up! My questions to everyone here are these (Assuming the show's prediction proves true [I.E. everyone that is alive now and everyone born from now on will be virtually immortal]): How would the next 1000 years play out? What would change about our society? Our government? Our morals? Our everyday lives?

Any answers to the questions I listed, or other thoughts or comments about the scenario would be welcome.

(Additionally, If something like this has been done before, please link)

 

[Kollega]

Let's just go to space. It's one of two ways. Other is frequent genocidal wars. If death of old age is going to vanish at some point,then we're either spreading throughout the galaxy or murdering eachother on a daily basis. Or both.

 

[IronDuke]

Interesting, I read in the paper today that infants born now will mostly probably live to 100. The article also said that longevity seemed to increasing at a constant rate, rather than leveling off so supposedly people will some day be able to live for a long long time.

Whether they will retain youthfulness for longer I am not sure, but I certainly hope so.

 

[SonicKoala]

Why the fuck would someone want to live to be ONE THOUSAND YEARS OLD? Holy shit that is RIDICULOUS. That sounds like a punishment, rather than some sort of miracle break through. Why are scientists so concerned with makng us live longer? How about just making us live healthier as we get older? Maybe trying to offset the very common ailments that befall the elderly would be a better idea - difficulties moving, increases in bone sensitivity, gradual decrease in quality of sight or hearing - these are the things that scientists should try to fix as it would increase the quality of life for the elderly and make their last years more pleasant. making us live as long as the fucking elves from Lord of the Rings is NOT a good idea.

 

[Mray3460]

Let's just go to space. It's one of two ways. Other is frequent genocidal wars.

Space colonization is a nice idea, but I'm not confident in humanity's ability to use common sense, or to unite for an undertaking of that scope. We barely got through the cold war without blowing ourselves up, and we STILL haven't disarmed our nuclear arsenal, which is capable of destroying the planet 14 times over.

As for constant, or near constant, genocidal wars, a la 1984, that was one of the ones that made me want to throw up, because it's all too possible in this scenario.

Edit:

Why the fuck would someone want to live to be ONE THOUSAND YEARS OLD? Holy shit that is RIDICULOUS. That sounds like a punishment, rather than some sort of miracle break through. Why are scientists so concerned with making us live longer? How about just making us live healthier as we get older? Maybe trying to offset the very common ailments that befall the elderly would be a better idea - difficulties moving, increases in bone sensitivity, gradual decrease in quality of sight or hearing - these are the things that scientists should try to fix as it would increase the quality of life for the elderly and make their last years more pleasant. making us live as long as the fucking elves from Lord of the Rings is NOT a good idea.

Here's the problem, scientists ARE trying to fix the problems associated with aging and increasing the quality of life for the elderly, the majority or them aren't even TRYING to increase our lifespans, it's happening BY ACCIDENT!!! (That's the part that really blew my mind when I was younger). The very act of "fixing" the problems associated with aging in effect "de-ages" the person, thus increasing life span.

 

[Katherine Kerensky]

1000 years old?...
I still prefer replacement of flesh with beautiful machines...
Still, wouldn't mind living to 1000. get a lot of extra time. may even see the human race get it's act together.

 

[Mray3460]

I still prefer replacement of flesh with beautiful machines...

Amen to that.

 

[TDM]

Yes, I'd like to become a thousand years old. I'd also like to have children, who will probably have children, etc. That will leave Earth very busy, unless we commit genocide on a few continents.... or only give the treatment to me myself and I...

 

[Mray3460]

i definitely want no part of living 1000 years so id opt out of any treatment, etc that would allow that. things are bad enough now with out a society where most people live 1000 years

Personally I agree with you on us having it bad enough as it is, but your post made me think about something else: Would anyone, possibly even the government, attempt to STOP people from gaining the ability to live that long?

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Why the fuck would someone want to live to be ONE THOUSAND YEARS OLD? Holy shit that is RIDICULOUS. That sounds like a punishment, rather than some sort of miracle break through. Why are scientists so concerned with makng us live longer? How about just making us live healthier as we get older? Maybe trying to offset the very common ailments that befall the elderly would be a better idea - difficulties moving, increases in bone sensitivity, gradual decrease in quality of sight or hearing - these are the things that scientists should try to fix as it would increase the quality of life for the elderly and make their last years more pleasant. making us live as long as the fucking elves from Lord of the Rings is NOT a good idea.

Second! Damn, the thought of living for even 500 years makes my head hurt.

Edit: Also considering the typical human attitude of advance, consume, and multiply, this seems like a veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery BAD idea.

 

[danielje]

Lately, I've noticed that the media output about new advances in medical technology (Stem cells, Resveratrol, Nano-medicine, and other technologies) has increased in frequency and scope recently. Now, this did stick out to me to a certain degree already since I tend to keep an eye on these things, but what really caught my attention was an episode of "That's Impossible" on the History Channel, focusing on eternal life. Suffice to say, they pretty much pulled together all the latest technology into one setting. Chemical compounds that both slowed aging and decreased body fat retention that could be produced for a penny per ounce, compounds in younger people's blood that could boost an elderly person back to the prime of their life, and even a series of nanobots that (on-screen) ate a malignant tumor inside a rat's body without damaging any of the surrounding tissue. The show concluded with the prediction that "The first person that will live to be 1000, is already 60."

Now, I'm a transhumanist, so initially this statement (taken, of course with not a few grains of salt) got me excited, but I was then overcome with an enormous amount of dread, and even a bit of terror, at the thought that the people who are 60 now would still be around for another 940 years. I sat and thought about how such a scenario could play out. How would the population be kept under control or regulated without natural death slowing the already rapid population growth (I'm not naive enough to believe that a eugenics program of any kind, let alone a proper, unbiased one, could be implemented)? How would resources be controlled? What would age and experience mean if we lived to be 1000? How would authority be distributed? How would children born 500 years from now understand death, or even its concept? Would we be doomed to live under the heel of the baby boomers forever?!

I came up with hundreds of answers to these and many other questions, and quite frankly, the majority of them made me want to go throw up! My questions to everyone here are these (Assuming the show's prediction proves true [I.E. everyone that is alive now and everyone born from now on will be virtually immortal]): How would the next 1000 years play out? What would change about our society? Our government? Our morals? Our everyday lives?

Any answers to the questions I listed, or other thoughts or comments about the scenario would be welcome.

(Additionally, If something like this has been done before, please link)

Basically a few people would achieve "immortality" and then wage a war to destroy most humans on the planet to establish their power base.

After setting up their own governments away from the other "immortals" they would rule with iron fists and make slaves of the local folk.

and then they'd die because nothing defies nature.

 

[Mray3460]

Just want to clarify something here: The prediction is not that the average lifespan will become 1000 years, it is that the first person that will live to see their 1000th birthday is already 60 years old. The actual life span could actually be far longer than 1000 years, even to the point where our lives are no longer measured in decades or even centuries, but millennia (Multiples of 1000).

 

[Jou-LotD]

I bet then post count will really matter then. I mean if everyone looked like they were in their 20s... hah. Ok I'll take it more seriously. I figure if we start living that long, that society will start really clamping down in the urban areas while rural areas become lawless. Basically nature doing its part of making us stir crazy.

 

[matrix3509]

I can't for the life of me think of anyone that even deserves to live this long. If the ability to live one thousand years is ever attained, it should definitely only be given to the best examples of humanity.

Somebody like Einstein would be perfect to receive this gift. To bad there is nobody even close to Einstein these days. Seriously though, if everyone is given this ability, then shit like 4chan will never die.

 

[AquaAscension]

These are questions for a theoretical sociologist. Experience goes up and this may prevent people from making as many mistakes, or it just may make people live longer and just make more mistakes. I kind of think it'd be cool to live a long time and actually have experience to teach young people, but I think that some cultural norms (For America because that is my cultural experience) need to change. We really should respect elders simply because they have patience and empirical knowledge that us youngins simply could not possess yet. Imagine your grandmother (the cool one) + several hundred years so she's seen several turnings of centuries and has advice stretching to almost infinity.

Unfortunately, the down side is that the world is changing so rapidly it could be incredibly difficult for anyone, let alone a super-elder, to keep up. Could you imagine being alive in circa 1000 C.E. and living until now? Could you imagine being cognizant of all that change that especially happened only very recently? You could see so much and understand so much, so I kind of think that only a few people who possess the ability to cast shadows of love, hope, or kindness should be allowed to live close to the "kilo-year." I don't want some crotchety old man yelling at me to get off his lawn to be alive for a thousand years... nor would I want something like a Catholic nun complete with ruler to knuckle-slapping action to be alive for that long. Terrifying? Possibly, in the nun/crotchety man scenario. Incredibly possibilities? Yes, yes indeed.

 

[manaman]

...The show concluded with the prediction that "The first person that will live to be 1000, is already 60."

Won't happen. Immortality is the new flying car. Extending life to that degree is either going to be impractical - as in you might see someone of Gates net worth living to a few hundred but not the plebes, or it is going to be impossible.

I'm not naive enough to believe that a eugenics program of any kind, let alone a proper, unbiased one, could be implemented

Ouch hate to say it buddy, but I feel the fact that you think a eugenics program would just be oh so peachy-keen tells me that you are still a bit naive. Don't worry that is part of what the aging process is about. The longer you spend on earth the more knowledge and experience you should accumulate. How exactly would said eugenics work, only guys with jobs can have kids? IQ tests? Now if you are just trying to say a program that limits the number of children a person may have then that would be fine, but you got your words a bit mixed up there.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

As Armand would say, "So few have the... Stamina... For immortality."

Most folks would commit suicide at some point rather than live those thousand+ years. You scoff now, but really. Could you take 200 more years of this? What about 400?

Think about all the horror there was in between 1000 AD and 2000 AD. Would you have wanted to firsthand see much of that? Be a part of it, maybe? Do things that you'd feel shame forever for having done?

I think I'd try to live as long as possible, since I don't support the idea of suicide. But I suspect I'd start doing more and more dangerous things as the years wore on.

Besides, does anyone want Bush to become immortal?

 

[the1ultimate]

I've always held that immortality would be overrated because:

A)an infinite lifespan means an infinite amount of changing, suffering and boredom, and

B) A life that long would be stretched out so far you might not even be able to call it living. I've always observed that things are much more fun when they are special, or moderated.

To a lesser degree these also apply to increased lifespans.

Living for a long time could be interesting, but personally, I wouldn't bet it would be ready for any of us alive now.

 

[Mray3460]

...The show concluded with the prediction that "The first person that will live to be 1000, is already 60."

Won't happen. Immortality is the new flying car. Extending life to that degree is either going to be impractical - as in you might see someone of Gates net worth living to a few hundred but not the plebes, or it is going to be impossible.

I'm not naive enough to believe that a eugenics program of any kind, let alone a proper, unbiased one, could be implemented

Ouch hate to say it buddy, but I feel the fact that you think a eugenics program would just be oh so peachy-keen tells me that you are still a bit naive. Don't worry that is part of what the aging process is about. The longer you spend on earth the more knowledge and experience you should accumulate. How exactly would said eugenics work, only guys with jobs can have kids? IQ tests? Now if you are just trying to say a program that limits the number of children a person may have then that would be fine, but you got your words a bit mixed up there.

Proper eugenics would involve sequencing DNA at birth and having large catalogs of DNA on file (Similar to taking an infant's fingerprints) to allow for examination and mapping of the movements of genes throughout the population. As far as the applied program goes, geneticists would identify certain human genes that would increase the overall survivability and health of future generations, and genes that would ultimately have the opposite effect. t would also involve the screening of DNA between prospective partners, to help couples choose whether or not to have children (Everything is voluntary, but following the advice can get you benefits, I.E. agree not to have children if you have less survival-oriented genes, and you're given free healthcare for the rest of your life). However, this system could never work, and has never worked with humans because it ultimately gets joined with racism and classism (Science is infringed upon by cultural practice and belief, thus rendering the entire project an exercise in futility).

A good way to sum up my feelings is: "Dogs make the worst Dog Breeders" (Eugenics cannot work because humans cannot judge each other, even on a genetic level, objectively)

 

[Latinidiot]

i have thought about this kind of thing for a long time now, and the longer I think about it, the more repulsion i feel. al this research is based on fear of death, but nobody knows if it's something to be afraid of. and nobody will be special anymore, everything can be done by anyone in a 1000 years. for instance, you can learn to play guitar perfectly(and i mean REAAALLY good) in 20 years, and then you have 980 years left to do whatever the fuck you want. I can't picture myself beyond 20 years old, let alone 200!