An increasingly ordered world

[Layz92]

After watching some 80s rock concert DVDs I began to wonder how many other than me yearn for times where everything wasn't so structured (fans being allowed to leap on stage and carry Ozzy around and be cheered on for it). Why must every single square centimeter of planet, every object and every action have some law applied to it?

There is a hill I go by occasionally with a road going up it at a pretty much 45 degree angle and it is required to have a sign at the base warning that said hill is steep... I mean c'mon, I know they are covering their asses against morons suing but if someone can not gather that there is a big, steep hill in front of them, I don't want them on the road. And speaking of suing, some woman was successfully sued for assault when some obnoxious woman was making a loud phone call in a cinema and she put her hand on the caller's shoulder and requested she please quieten down. In any rational world the obnoxious woman would have been laughed out of the courtroom and all the way up the street to her car.

To me it seems like everything is being restricted. It is becoming increasingly difficult to break out of this mold of what should and should not be, what to do and what to believe. It brightens my day to see someone do something unusual (for example there was a guy who walked across at some traffic lights who was wearing a tatty jeans, a rainbow tassel jacket and a belt that was almost a girdle. Best of all he was smiling. Not at a joke, not at a memory but was just happy with life itself and that made me feel happy too and brightened my dull morning immensely). I'm only 18, but the lifestyle of the "summer of love" and woodstock speaks to me more than anything around now. Am I in a minority or do many other people wish things were a little more free flowing and relaxed? The closest I can get to that is the underground "hippy" acid community in my area.

I hope my ramblings actually made sense there.

 

[TyrantGanado]

I agree with you here, man. The way I see it though is that it's generational. Every generation holds different values and the one in charge just now seems to be ridiculously concerned with health and safety regulations and order. They seem to be lashing out against a random, unpredictable universe by wrangling it in and subduing it in a cage to be tamed.

Our generation, going by the old rebel-against-your-parents-values cliché, seems to dislike this at large, so by the time we get into power it might be different. If not then we'll end up eradicating common sense and replacing it with clearly labelled everything: "this fork is slightly pointy and might hurt a little should you accidentally stab yourself" kind of things. Hell we already have bags of nuts saying "warning: contains nuts." I mean...fuck. Duh.

Apologies, I'm ranting and getting all metaphor driven >.<

 

[Layz92]

I agree with you here, man. The way I see it though is that it's generational. Every generation holds different values and the one in charge just now seems to be ridiculously concerned with health and safety regulations and order. They seem to be lashing out against a random, unpredictable universe by wrangling it in and subduing it in a cage to be tamed.

Our generation, going by the old rebel-against-your-parents-values cliché, seems to dislike this at large, so by the time we get into power it might be different. If not then we'll end up eradicating common sense and replacing it with clearly labelled everything: "this fork is slightly pointy and might hurt a little should you accidentally stab yourself" kind of things. Hell we already have bags of nuts saying "warning: contains nuts." I mean...fuck. Duh.

Apologies, I'm ranting and getting all metaphor driven >.<

You make a true point that it is generational but it is mind boggling that someone could actively seek out that level of "health and safety". With all this stuff about safety being piled on life is essentially having the spontinaety and adventure stripped out leaving only survival of the species as the driving force. I hope the newer generation does indeed make a change for the better but I fear they could also be... brainwashed for lack of a better term and wrap themselves blindly in the cushy blanket of "safety". With luck it will be point and counterpoint. Before Vietnam there was that slightly repressive "grow up and become a business man like your daddy" then the protests of Vietnam and Social Rights then the Bush (or there about) era of fear campaigns. Hopefully there will be the rebuttal soon of a younger generation.

 

[TyrantGanado]

You make a true point that it is generational but it is mind boggling that someone could actively seek out that level of "health and safety". With all this stuff about safety being piled on life is essentially having the spontinaety and adventure stripped out leaving only survival of the species as the driving force. I hope the newer generation does indeed make a change for the better but I fear they could also be... brainwashed for lack of a better term and wrap themselves blindly in the cushy blanket of "safety". With luck it will be point and counterpoint. Before Vietnam there was that slightly repressive "grow up and become a business man like your daddy" then the protests of Vietnam and Social Rights then the Bush (or there about) era of fear campaigns. Hopefully there will be the rebuttal soon of a younger generation.

Agreed. Humans have so much more they get from life than simply survival. Less intelligent species make do with just living, humans have entertainment, adventure...all the stuff that makes life interesting and we're slowly stripping it back so that everything is 'safe' and there are no risks or anything. Life becomes uniform without it. You'd think we'd learn from dystopian fiction huh?

Also, on a related note, it's a bit paradoxical that we're so concerned with saving as many lives as possible while worrying about overpopulation.

 

[zfactor]

My arguement for all this order and whatnot is as follows:

People, as a whole, are complete and total dumbasses.

 

[Axolotl]

My arguement for all this order and whatnot is as follows:

People, as a whole, are complete and total dumbasses.

Surely that's an arguement for a less ordered world?

 

[zfactor]

My arguement for all this order and whatnot is as follows:

People, as a whole, are complete and total dumbasses.

Surely that's an arguement for a less ordered world?

It is an argument that the world allowed to run its course would desend into total anarchy, which is why some people (the non-dumbasses) are applying order (laws) to try and counter that. For the most part, it sort of works...

 

[Axolotl]

My arguement for all this order and whatnot is as follows:

People, as a whole, are complete and total dumbasses.

Surely that's an arguement for a less ordered world?

It is an argument that the world allowed to run its course would desend into total anarchy, which is why some people (the non-dumbasses) are applying order (laws) to try and counter that. For the most part, it sort of works...

No. What I mean is surely is "People, as a whole, are complete and total dumbasses" then surely a less ordered world is better?

 

[Flamezdudes]

I completely agree.

After seeing so many health and safety laws and restrictions on what people can do, i find it completely silly as we survived without these laws before, why create more restrictions? We should be allowed to be more free!

 

[zfactor]

My arguement for all this order and whatnot is as follows:

People, as a whole, are complete and total dumbasses.

Surely that's an arguement for a less ordered world?

It is an argument that the world allowed to run its course would desend into total anarchy, which is why some people (the non-dumbasses) are applying order (laws) to try and counter that. For the most part, it sort of works...

No. What I mean is surely is "People, as a whole, are complete and total dumbasses" then surely a less ordered world is better?

Well only if you like studid people doing stupid stuff all the stupid time (watch the end of Men who stare at goats). Also, this ordered world gave rise to the advancement of science, thus electricty, thus computers, thus the internet, thus how we are able to argue for or against order. So I'm for order.

 

[Axolotl]

My arguement for all this order and whatnot is as follows:

People, as a whole, are complete and total dumbasses.

Surely that's an arguement for a less ordered world?

It is an argument that the world allowed to run its course would desend into total anarchy, which is why some people (the non-dumbasses) are applying order (laws) to try and counter that. For the most part, it sort of works...

No. What I mean is surely is "People, as a whole, are complete and total dumbasses" then surely a less ordered world is better?

Well only if you like studid people doing stupid stuff all the stupid time (watch the end of Men who stare at goats). Also, this ordered world gave rise to the advancement of science, thus electricty, thus computers, thus the internet, thus how we are able to argue for or against order. So I'm for order.

But generall authority is rarely free of incompotence. If humanity is indeed full of idiots then I'd argue that society should have as little power over the individual as possibe.

 

[zfactor]

My arguement for all this order and whatnot is as follows:

People, as a whole, are complete and total dumbasses.

Surely that's an arguement for a less ordered world?

It is an argument that the world allowed to run its course would desend into total anarchy, which is why some people (the non-dumbasses) are applying order (laws) to try and counter that. For the most part, it sort of works...

No. What I mean is surely is "People, as a whole, are complete and total dumbasses" then surely a less ordered world is better?

Well only if you like studid people doing stupid stuff all the stupid time (watch the end of Men who stare at goats). Also, this ordered world gave rise to the advancement of science, thus electricty, thus computers, thus the internet, thus how we are able to argue for or against order. So I'm for order.

But generall authority is rarely free of incompotence. If humanity is indeed full of idiots then I'd argue that society should have as little power over the individual as possibe.

Oh God, are we going to be going back and forth for the next hour? I kind of have a class to get to...

That is why humanity does not have power over itself. Systems of order have power over humanity (laws, customs, etc), created by the few non-dumbasses that have roamed the world.

 

[demoman_chaos]

He who gives up freedom for security gets neither.

I'd rather have idiots hurting themselves with knives than knives be banned outright, for example.

 

[Gigaguy64]

I can see what your getting at.
and i agree that there are some laws that are just stupid and need to be done away with.
though i don't see how having a sign that warns about a steep hill is restricting people.
Just making them aware, i know some people who wouldn't even know what the word steep meant.

Many of the laws are looking out for people as a whole.
Your actions can have devastating consequences for many people, not just yourself, and laws try to avoid those consequences.

You don't haft to be breaking a law to live Differently or Dangerously.
Just be yourself and make up your mind to enjoy life.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

My arguement for all this order and whatnot is as follows:

People, as a whole, are complete and total dumbasses.

Surely that's an arguement for a less ordered world?

It is an argument that the world allowed to run its course would desend into total anarchy, which is why some people (the non-dumbasses) are applying order (laws) to try and counter that. For the most part, it sort of works...

No. What I mean is surely is "People, as a whole, are complete and total dumbasses" then surely a less ordered world is better?

Well only if you like studid people doing stupid stuff all the stupid time (watch the end of Men who stare at goats). Also, this ordered world gave rise to the advancement of science, thus electricty, thus computers, thus the internet, thus how we are able to argue for or against order. So I'm for order.

But generall authority is rarely free of incompotence. If humanity is indeed full of idiots then I'd argue that society should have as little power over the individual as possibe.

Ug. We tried this already. It's where we came from. People with tremendous means fucking enslaved and indentured most of us. It sucked balls. We fought against it, and life is better for the vast majority of people.

The world is too small for libertarianism. You don't live in the woods by yourself. Your community isn't isolated from the world at large. Like it or not, we're all connected at this point. Every market has some degree of access to every other market. Without rules and regulations in place, unscrupulous people will strive to oppress (or profit from the oppression) of others. That's human nature. Government is what prevents this from happening.

These threads always start in one place ("laws against obvious shit are stupid, dumb people are making everything too stuff" - probably true) and end up somewhere else ("the government has dumb people in it, so no one should be able to tell me what to do evar!" - utterly fucking idiotic). It's a subtle shift, but I think it's pretty goddamned stupid to turn on the very concept of government by/for the people when most of us would be living HORRIBLE lives without such assistance.

 

[L4hlborg]

I kinda like order. Taking the concert example, some people like to enjoy the music and not get rammed in the back by a horde of drunken fans. Pretty much everything cool that ever happens on DVD usually means that somebody loses their spot to someone else and kinda misses out on what's happening.

Not having any restrections would pretty much just lead to a state of idiots doing stupid shit and a few people being glad of not seeing a sign that a hill is steep. Not very ideal.

Sure laws have mistakes, but that's why thinking people exist to make them better.

 

[C95J]

everything now is about the law, and the media isn't helping with everything. And now, thanks to some stupid, ignorant people who can't live their life without committing a serious crime, and parents who can't raise their kids properly, and the media, who blow everything way out of proportion. We all have to live our lives with strict rules attached to everything, and are becoming more and more enclosed in a ever shrinking prison that is our own lives.

Damn the world!

Live life to it's fullest, never look back.

 

[Wintermoot]

maybe its to make sure they dont get sued if somebody was stupid emough to ignore the signs

 

[Keava]

It's called civilization. The more civilized we become the higher is our need of order and regulations. The reason is simple, we want to have less on our heads to worry about, when a law tells you exactly what you can and what you cannot do, you don't have to think about it. Everything is decided upfront and you can live your own life.

As for the examples you gave in however, they are pretty irrelevant. The concert thing is mainly artists issue. If you go for some indie/underground gig you will see such stuff going on, you will see the artist actually interacting with the fans on more personal level than simple shout outs to no one specific.

The steep hill sign actually has it's use because it gives you the angle of the hill. I doubt that just by looking through the windshield, while driving 50 miles per hour in a place you are not familiar with you can judge whenever the hill is 35% or 45% and as far as i know it actually does make a difference.

The last bit about assault, well that's very American really.With all respect you tend to have really odd law interpretation every now and then.

The question is what you, as a citizen can do about it? First of all responsible voting, second participation in different groups or non government organizations, be active in your country and maybe you will move some of the bricks forward, fight with ignorance, promote education, do something. Complaining on forums won't change the world.

 

[Axolotl]

Ug. We tried this already. It's where we came from. People with tremendous means fucking enslaved and indentured most of us. It sucked balls. We fought against it, and life is better for the vast majority of people.

The world is too small for libertarianism. You don't live in the woods by yourself. Your community isn't isolated from the world at large. Like it or not, we're all connected at this point. Every market has some degree of access to every other market. Without rules and regulations in place, unscrupulous people will strive to oppress (or profit from the oppression) of others. That's human nature. Government is what prevents this from happening.

These threads always start in one place ("laws against obvious shit are stupid, dumb people are making everything too stuff" - probably true) and end up somewhere else ("the government has dumb people in it, so no one should be able to tell me what to do evar!" - utterly fucking idiotic). It's a subtle shift, but I think it's pretty goddamned stupid to turn on the very concept of government by/for the people when most of us would be living HORRIBLE lives without such assistance.

That wasn't what I was saying but thanks for putting words in my mouth.