An Interesting Illegal Immigrant Case
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I would say, no they should not be allowed to, however they should be allowed to take the citizenship test, and really if you passed the bar exam how can you not pass the citizenship test?RJ 17 said:Or at least I think it is, the story can be found here:
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/24/11369925-can-an-illegal-immigrant-become-a-lawyer?lite
The short version: an illegal immigrant in the US has - at least according to this story - been a law abiding member of society and just in general a decent person. He took the Bar exam in Florida, passed it, but now the state supreme court is looking into whether or not an illegal immigrant can become a legally licensed lawyer.
As I've found that putting my own opinions into OPs in the off-topic section more often than not leads to my inbox being filled with quotes from different people all saying the same thing, I'll withhold my own thoughts on the matter for now and just leave it open to discussion.
So, my fellow Escapists, should an illegal immigrant who - as far as we can tell - has done nothing wrong (other than having been brought to the US when he was a child) be eligible to obtain a license to practice law?
All of these make the best Cop/Lawyer/Doctor/Etc because they have experienced first hand what they are fighting and they know how people feel in those situations and how they get around the rules.DevilWithaHalo said:
Actually we're okay with legal immigrants (albeit our whole system of immigration is fucked) we're just not very big on people who move here illegally and are able to take full advantage of our education/welfare system. Sadly the majority of our country's illegal immigrant population is Mexican[footnote]http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/publications/ois_ill_pe_2009.pdf (Go to page 4 for a breakdown of where most of our illegal immigrant population comes from)[/footnote]. A result of not only the poor shape their country is economically but because they share a very large border with us. Our own citizens aren't helping the situation either by exploiting them for damn near slave labor. The Mexican government isn't doing much to stem the tide either. I don't know if this is still in place but as far back as 2003 Mexico was actively encouraging its citizens to enter the US, by supplying them with ID cards that let them get driver's licenses and other such things here in the states.[footnote]http://legacy.utsandiego.com/news/mexico/20030924-2051-us-mexico.html (Quote also comes from this source)[/footnote] It may be a tool used by Mexican citizens who enter the states legally, but my gut tells me it's more for the ones who enter illegally. Especially when their president drops a real gem of a quote like this oneOneCatch said:
Now if I were him, I'd be practically punting my citizens across the border to keep raking in that money. It's just a bad situation all around, and no one group of people is responsible for it. Since Mexico is our biggest offender, and their government seems to be actively encouraging their citizens enter here illegally then they are the group that receives the most hell for it.Mexican President Vicente Fox -- 2003 said:
The excerpt from the poem The New colossus,
does not mean we have to be okay with people coming here illegally being the economic policy of our neighbor to the south.
Heh.....heheh........a lawyer? I'm sorry but if you want to start a career on hypocritical actions then I have to question your honesty. Do I really believe that he cares about the justice system? seeing as he felt it was ok to break it? I don't want that kind of person defending people in court, I'm sorry.
captcha: willy nilly
anyone remember Balloonshop? lol.
captcha: willy nilly
anyone remember Balloonshop? lol.
He should be deported to which ever country he hails fromRJ 17 said:
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/24/11369925-can-an-illegal-immigrant-become-a-lawyer?lite
The short version: an illegal immigrant in the US has - at least according to this story - been a law abiding member of society and just in general a decent person. He took the Bar exam in Florida, passed it, but now the state supreme court is looking into whether or not an illegal immigrant can become a legally licensed lawyer.
As I've found that putting my own opinions into OPs in the off-topic section more often than not leads to my inbox being filled with quotes from different people all saying the same thing, I'll withhold my own thoughts on the matter for now and just leave it open to discussion.
So, my fellow Escapists, should an illegal immigrant who - as far as we can tell - has done nothing wrong (other than having been brought to the US when he was a child) be eligible to obtain a license to practice law?
If he was truly unapologetic he wouldn't be trying to circumvent the law to stay. He would accept that he broke the law and accept the consequences of breaking it.
The illegal immigration issue in the US is just sticky as hell. The problem is that it has, much like abortion or religion or gay marriage, become a political tool to be wielded rather than a problem to be addressed one way or another.
Honestly, he shouldn't be allowed and be deported. I don't like that solution, but that's what the law is. The law is wrong, and it needs to be changed, but also long as its a great political tool for either side of the US politics game, it won't be.
I feel that as long as you pay taxes you have a place in this country. if you don't pay taxes you don't deserve to live here. I don't care who you are or where you are from,(Foreign or U.S) if you don't pay taxes you need to get the hell out and stop stealing jobs.
Not in an individual case. I would support a policy where illegal immigrants who have spent a long time in the country without a criminal record could seek permanent residency but NOT citizenship. You can't just deport all of them, but there has to be some sort of punishment for breaking the law, and that would be the forfeiture of the possibility of citizenship, although their children could become citizens. It also lets you revoke that privilege for those who end up committing crimes later. Then you would have to aggressively enforce all future immigration laws to stop yourself from having to do this every twenty years or so.
This guy is getting screwed, and it sucks, but when you start making law or rules based on extreme circumstances, you end up with bad law or policy.
This guy is getting screwed, and it sucks, but when you start making law or rules based on extreme circumstances, you end up with bad law or policy.
Nope. Illegal immigrants should be deported, because if you let them stay, it sends the message that it's okay to go around the legal way of getting into this country, i.e. sponsorship or lottery. My parents were legal immigrants who got in through my aunt getting chosen in the lottery, and then she sponsored my parents, so I have no sympathy for border jumpers. Wait in the damn line like everyone else, or get sent back.
I would like to point out a few things that many of you seem to be ignoring:
-He has not broken any laws or committed fraud (Not deporting yourself is not a criminal offense).
-He has not been hiding from the system, he's traveled officially through several institutional layers for his education.
-The Florida bar doesn't require citizenship, only official documentation of your immigration status.
-He has not broken any laws or committed fraud (Not deporting yourself is not a criminal offense).
-He has not been hiding from the system, he's traveled officially through several institutional layers for his education.
-The Florida bar doesn't require citizenship, only official documentation of your immigration status.
I understand how some people can fathom that fighting fire with fire is a good idea. Until you stop and consider something; why is making more fire going to stop other fire? Water works better. In the same vein, if you want someone to avoid doing something, you don't teach them that even if they do it everything can turn out well; you teach them to not do it.artanis_neravar said:
It's not actually all that hard. It's the time it takes that is the real crux. The US actually has one of the most lax systems in the world. I suggest google; check out the US and Mexico respectively and then tell me which is easier to gain citizenship to.Evil Smurf said:
The first isn't accurate at all, while not specifically his fault, he has lived in this country with no documentation; which is a criminal offense.GrandmaFunk said:
The second is simply a prime example of how idiotic our system is.
The third, although true from a requirement point of view, still points out that he was unable to provide any documentation whatsoever.
So actually, yah, he was in violation of the law in residing in the country and taking advantage of the system without documentation regarding his status. He even plainly admits it, did you sort of skip over that? If he wasn't in violation of the law, this wouldn't even be an issue. Kind of a requirement of the discussion.
Indeed, I don't get why he hasn't just been deported in the first place if this case has gone to the courts.Kendarik said:
I sympathise because he was brought here as a child. It wasn't like he was an adult and though, "fuck it, I'll just illegally go to the US".
But on the other hand, he is an illegal immigrant and should be treated as such (deportation) as him staying could cause many loop-hole and problems for others seeking to live in the USA.
But on the other hand, he is an illegal immigrant and should be treated as such (deportation) as him staying could cause many loop-hole and problems for others seeking to live in the USA.
They do, but at least this way they aren't saying "You're full of shit because of x, y, and z" in various ways.TheBobmus said:But don't people just quote you anyway?RJ 17 said:
OT: He personally hasn't done anything wrong if he was a minor when brought to the country, so yeah sure, let him be a lawyer.
Please provide which specific statute of federal or Florida state laws he has broken.DevilWithaHalo said:
Just because his immigration status is open to deportation does not actually imply any broken laws.
There's a specific reason why government publications and communications have stopped using the term "illegal immigrant" and instead use "undocumented immigrant": because it doesn't lead people to falsely conclude that laws were automatically broken to attain that state.