Analyst Says EA Investors "Betting Against" Old Republic

[SonicWaffle]

kinda off topic but does anyone know what this restored content mod is for KOTOR2 nostalgia has hit me like a mackerel to the face lately and im reinstalling old games and i saw something about it the other day.

I've been playing it on my Xbox lately, and I'd guess it was just putting in areas/quests that didn't make it to the finished game. Like on Nar Shaadaa, as you approach the Hutt's apartments, there are clearly two doors on the map leading to a seperate area but neither of the doors can be interacted with. There are a few NPCs around the place who have dialogue that seems like they're involved with quests, but it never goes anywhere. Considering that (or so I've read) the studio were under a lot of pressure to rush the game out, I'd assume there is plenty of unfinished content lurking around.

 

[Vrach]

"Nothing beat WoW so far, therefore it's likely will fail."

Fuck. If only I went to analyst school, I could've made a program to do my job within a few minutes ^^

Oh and heads up. Nearing a million forum users on the official site, take out the doubled accounts and add the much greater amount of people following and waiting for the game from the sidelines and it adds up to a pretty successful looking launch.

That's putting aside the fact BioWare are being very intelligent and saving most of their good stuff (end game info) at bay still. When the flood gates open up on the information, a release date and an open beta arrive (open beta seemingly being aimed at merely testing the servers, thus showing the product at it's pretty much best rather than the usual half baked beta crap) and PAX East presents their stuff in full shining light mere few months before the release, I'm guessing the numbers will start climbing fast

 

[Jonny49]

I'm calling it.

I second this. I want it to do well, but my hopes are low.

 

[SonicWaffle]

I'm talking universe, not games. I totally agree on the games you mention; I just don't think they do a lot for the "story of star wars." For that you have extended universe books (not always garbage, but often contradictory), KOTOR (great), the Original Trilogy (great), the new trilogy (awful), the new clone wars movie and show (awful)

Oh, I see what you mean now. Still, even the ones you mention don't do huge amounts for the overall story - considering that, by the timeframe we measure by (original trilogy), the KoTOR stuff is ancient history I can't see it being that relevant. Enjoyable, sure, but not really advancing the story at all. Plus (and this might just be me), it makes people in the Star Wars universe seem like idiots; KoTOR is a few thousand years before The Trilogy, right? Let's look at their tech. They have lightsabers, comms, droids that look and act very similar to R2D2 and C3PO, the Ebon Hawk is essentially the Millenium Falcon, goons who wear Stormtrooper-style armour, laser rifles and a whole host of other items that we know, or at least recognise the similarities to, from the original trilogy. What I took from this was that over thousands and thousands of years there had been virtually no technological advancement! The universe and it's scientists appear to have stalled at a time that, comparably, would be like us using pre-Christian technology. It may be a small thing, but it always bugged me...

Oh, and as for the EU books, X-Wing: Rogue Squadron & Wraith Squadron books are awesome. 'nuff said!

 

[SonicWaffle]

Oh and heads up. Nearing a million forum users on the official site, take out the doubled accounts and add the much greater amount of people following and waiting for the game from the sidelines and it adds up to a pretty successful looking launch.

The thing is, a successful launch doesn't mean a whole lot. Plenty of MMO games have a successful launch, but eventually people get bored and go back to WoW. The trick is hooking people in so they keep paying their fees, it's no good to have 5 million people play for the first week and then 500 every week after that.

You're right about BioWare, though - not a company to rush a product, and when they deliver, by God they deliver. If anyone can do it, they can.

 

[Sixcess]

A big launch will be easy for this title. Holding onto those numbers for more than a couple of months... that's going to be difficult, if not impossible. The Star Wars IP won't cut it alone - just look at SWG for proof of that - and Bioware's expertise is all in single player, which I'm still thinking just isn't going to translate well into an MMO.

It all depends how many subscribers they've decided they need to be a success. If they can break even with a long term of 100-150k then maybe... maybe they'll do okay. If they're depending on maintaining over a million for the long haul then they're fucked, and may as well start consolidating servers now to save time later.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for it though, if only because if this one crashes and burns that's the end of mega-budget P2Ps, because if this one fails what can possibly succeed?

 

[theriddlen]

You people liked KotOR. And it was the Bioware that created it. There is chance they will be successful again.

 

[Zeraki]

I really want to play this game, I loved Kotor and I love just about everything Bioware makes but I can't see myself paying a subscription fee for it. And this is coming from someone who has played WoW off and on for a few years now(account currently frozen.) I'll probably just wait for a free trial to come out and try it then to see if it's worth it.

 

[Matt K]

The thing is, a successful launch doesn't mean a whole lot. Plenty of MMO games have a successful launch, but eventually people get bored and go back to WoW. The trick is hooking people in so they keep paying their fees, it's no good to have 5 million people play for the first week and then 500 every week after that.

You're right about BioWare, though - not a company to rush a product, and when they deliver, by God they deliver. If anyone can do it, they can.

Exactly. DC Online had a seemly greta launch but from what I've been hearing it will be lucky to retain a fraction of that number after a few months. And considering the amount of money they've rumored to spend on this title (development, advertising and support), they'll have to keep a good sized player base for a while to even break even.

Also, if this launches opposite say Guild Wars 2 then it's done for considering that lack of fees for the later.

My betting money for this to fail. No hard feeling for those looking forward to it (because it sounds interesting enough) but I have a feeling it'll be going to way of Cryptic's games (which isn't a bad thing I mean Free to Play and all).

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Its too bad the game isn't based on the Star Wars everyone knows.

Bullshit, that was the reason why KOTOR was so much better than any other Star Wars game. It was set in its own time period, with its own aesthetic that still fit with the universe.

This game looks exactly like stuff out of the movies, which bothers me. The republic troops look exactly like Clone Troopers, despite the fact that this game takes place at least three thousand some years before Clone Troopers even existed.

TOR looks good, but visually I find it repulsively generic.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Sorry EA, if I was a betting man, I'd follow that bet. Lucasophobia has already taken some of your customers, and unless you absolutely trounce WoW from the first week, you're going to lose this one.

/facepalm

They're never going trounce WoW immediately, nor are they aiming to, nor is it necessary. They've even said they're not looking at it as a competitor because there's no point right now.

Given how much money they've put into it, they need to do it fast or something else will steal their thunder. That's why they've got to trounce. All the people they're looking to jump into it are those jumping out of MMOs. And who will jump out of this one very quickly.

There's a limited customer base and they have to grab it really quickly or it'll die. DCUO is still struggling with internal issues, but if they'd delayed it, they wouldn't have got the huge player base to lose from.

 

[MrGalactus]

Well, the money isn't the important thing, so who cares. If I was to make a game I wouldn't care if I lost money so long as it was good and contributed something to gaming

 

[Ickabod]

All the other failed MMO's had a common problem. Bugs! If you want an MMO to be a success then those first couple of days had better kick butt and had better work. You only get once chance at a first impression with an MMO and if that one fails then poof your game is toast. It's not a secret why WoW succeeded, it worked and had a lot of content to dive right into that allowed you to get comforatable with the game.

Will SWToR succeed? If it works, and actually brings something new to the table in the genre than sure it will. If it's in bad need of a day one patch, all of user reviews will flame the game as not working and half of the potential customers won't ever bother.

You get once chance EA, you should know that by now. I'd buy more shares in your company if I had more faith, but sadly I don't. Here is to hoping you let Bioware do their jobs.

 

[Woodsey]

Sorry EA, if I was a betting man, I'd follow that bet. Lucasophobia has already taken some of your customers, and unless you absolutely trounce WoW from the first week, you're going to lose this one.

/facepalm

They're never going trounce WoW immediately, nor are they aiming to, nor is it necessary. They've even said they're not looking at it as a competitor because there's no point right now.

Given how much money they've put into it, they need to do it fast or something else will steal their thunder. That's why they've got to trounce. All the people they're looking to jump into it are those jumping out of MMOs. And who will jump out of this one very quickly.

There's a limited customer base and they have to grab it really quickly or it'll die. DCUO is still struggling with internal issues, but if they'd delayed it, they wouldn't have got the huge player base to lose from.

Actually, the whole point of TOR is to allow for a singleplayer experience within an MMO, and other than EVE (which is really nothing like WOW and the other stuff out there) I'm a total MMO noob, and I'll be getting it. Why? Because of that "singleplayer" experience within it.

And they don't need to do it immediately for fear of someone else stealing their thunder, this is Star Wars and BioWare with EA's backing. You couldn't hope for a better situation. And like I said, that singleplayer experience inside the MMO is going to keep people hooked, and if it is good then I can't see people being easily pulled away from that when they have the best of both worlds.

Sorry. But stop trying to think you can dethrone WoW. It will never happen. They look at companies like Blizzard and think they can recreate the same - if not better - degree of quality, fun and balance that a company has several years of experience, patching and thorough understanding of the strengths and faults of the product within the space of a week. It just won't happen. It's a ridiculous money sink. You have to be lucky to have an MMO survive the initial hype, let alone the first week. It really saddens me to see a big name like Bioware try to dip their fingers into the moneypot of the niche MMO market.

Be prepared for them to lose a tonne of money and for the quality of their products to diminish. Goodbye Bioware, it was great while it lasted.

They've even said on videos posted on the Escapist THAT THEY DO NOT SEE THEMSELVES AS WOW-KILLERS. That's an entirely community-driven concept, I don't think they've even mentioned WoW at any point even for reference.

 

[HellspawnCandy]

This game has taken it's sweet time in the making process, which is a freaking good idea. Warhammer was disappointing at best. I can't say I have much faith in this game knocking out WoW, but I think it'll be a decent player in the field. Victory is making a profit, not knocking WoW from it's throne.

 

[Raithnor]

I'm talking universe, not games. I totally agree on the games you mention; I just don't think they do a lot for the "story of star wars." For that you have extended universe books (not always garbage, but often contradictory), KOTOR (great), the Original Trilogy (great), the new trilogy (awful), the new clone wars movie and show (awful)

Oh, I see what you mean now. Still, even the ones you mention don't do huge amounts for the overall story - considering that, by the timeframe we measure by (original trilogy), the KoTOR stuff is ancient history I can't see it being that relevant. Enjoyable, sure, but not really advancing the story at all. Plus (and this might just be me), it makes people in the Star Wars universe seem like idiots; KoTOR is a few thousand years before The Trilogy, right? Let's look at their tech. They have lightsabers, comms, droids that look and act very similar to R2D2 and C3PO, the Ebon Hawk is essentially the Millenium Falcon, goons who wear Stormtrooper-style armour, laser rifles and a whole host of other items that we know, or at least recognise the similarities to, from the original trilogy. What I took from this was that over thousands and thousands of years there had been virtually no technological advancement! The universe and it's scientists appear to have stalled at a time that, comparably, would be like us using pre-Christian technology. It may be a small thing, but it always bugged me...

Oh, and as for the EU books, X-Wing: Rogue Squadron & Wraith Squadron books are awesome. 'nuff said!

It's basically a "Medieval Stasis"-trope, sort of like how in D&D hundreds of years can pass without any significant technological development. The idea is that the Star Wars Universe reached an average level of technology about 20,000 years before the original trilogy. Certain advanced technologies are discovered, lost, and rediscovered as the plot (or metaplot) mandates.

The KoTOR era begins 50 years after the Tales of the Jedi Series from Dark Horse. The TOTJ-era in the comics was very stylistically different from the modern Star Wars era. When they decided to make KoTOR more emphasis was put on making familiar to Star Wars fans who didn't read the obscure comics. That's why one of the classes in TOR looks like a Clone Commando (but isn't a clone).

If you accept KoTOR-era as "Star Wars without Lucas post-RotJedi meddling" it becomes a lot more palatable that a lot of the more recent Lucas-driven projects.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

And like I said, that singleplayer experience inside the MMO is going to keep people hooked, and if it is good then I can't see people being easily pulled away from that when they have the best of both worlds.

Know why I would never write anything based on Star Wars? Because there's so many differing interpretations. And there's meeting them as well.

Take here for instance. The Escapist is a hot-bed for Star Wars, even some of the 'earlier' films, but what's the feeling in this thread?

It's not good, is it?

Like I say, there's gonna need to be a WoW-trouncing event to get this to the point of wonder. Psychonauts was great but didn't get the return. Vampire: Bloodlines had a wonderful single-player game but didn't get the return.

It's not that I want it to fail, I just don't think there's enough support out there to get back what they've put into it. And it's due to the competitors - even if they're not competing against them.

 

[octafish]

snip

OT: I loved, loved, loved KoTOR, but I'm not buying this. I dislike the idea of paying subscription fees, along with the grinding aspects of your average MMO, so much as I'd love to head back to the Old Republic it just isn't going to happen. Even with a fantastic dev like BioWare helming the project, I'd still much rather have KoTOR 3.

Here, here, I just wanted to finish Revan's story. Once the game semi-flops and goes free to play like LOTR Online I may try it.

 

[thiosk]

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