Anarchy in London?

[Black Phoenix]

Oh and to the people against state funded universities. I have a reasonably high IQ and I have 2 high scored degrees I'm a BA/BSc but my family is working class and in no way would I have been able to afford university without help. Should I have been left to work in a factory? Is that what your saying?

Just got to ask, how did that work out for you (the two degrees I mean)? Just I'm considering doing a second degree after the one I'm currently on (got another year two go), but unless I can get the funding, it's a no-go. That said, it might be different for me anyway, given I'll be applying for the second degree after the funding changes come in.

More on topic: The last I heard about all the tuition fees changes, the government was having to backpedal somewhat, as every uni in the country wanted to set their fees at the highest level, and for some reason the utter idiots in government didn't expect that to happen, though i have no idea why not, it seems like blatant common sense to me. So now, they're supposed to be setting some limits themselves on it all. I heard all this from a lecturer at my current uni, but I'm not totally sure on the accuracy, as I've not seen or heard it anywhere else.

 

[ramboondiea]

no current generation student will be affected by the changes. none. (and they already pay fees).

.

actually thats not true, im a second year university student and i will be affected by the increase.

ot: they were just general riots at cuts, the peaceful protest went well, but like every protests people take advantage of the opportunity to cause a riot.

 

[RivFader86]

wouldn't call it anarchy as it happens in conjunction with a protest....unlike for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_Days

 

[spartandude]

Us Brits have a tendency to riot against these kind of policies. this protest was largely peaceful with just a few people being idiots. however i wouldnt be surprised if the next protest turns violent, the government needs to be reminded who votes for them, who they work for and who pays them.

 

[Lord Kloo]

Meh, this kind of stuff happens commonly over here in England..

TBH, if people don't like the cuts they should be providing the answer to the cuts and not just bloody protesting because its pointless, the politicians then just cut elsewhere or raise taxes and then everyone goes off the rocker again for different reasons..

Besides the guys up in Parliament rarely make such large changes as the ones wanted as it usually screws up lots of stuff.. and as much as I hate to say it:

Politicians are usually right in what they do.. the problem lies with the fact that the UK population is so diverse in its politics that anything a socialist government does is hated by our fascists and vice versa...

But thats Off Topic : so whats happening.. people don't like change, thats about it...

 

[Woodsey]

Spoiler

Man, I feel so bad for them. They're going to have to pay for their tuition like I do!

This is what happens when the entitlement mentality is threatened by removal of the teat.

EDIT: I actually do feel sorry for them, though I said that with sarcasm. For years they lived in a world where they were allowed to establish a feeling of entitlement, and now it's been taken away. Probably for their better, but it's a shame that the socialist government programs killed their spirits so much that they feel they MUST have the government nipple to suckle from.[footnote]Moderator Edit: Please be more respectful when posting. Thanks![/footnote]

Look, just because things are shit for you (this is like the third post I've seen you make along the same lines - you have it bad, so everyone else should) doesn't meant that's the way things should be.

People have the right to be educated as far as their intelligence permits them - monetary cost should factor into it as little as possible.

Oh, and the implementation of certain socialist ideas doesn't equate to a socialist government.

Well they shouldn't have voted for the people they voted for in the first place.
And acting all surprised when politicians don't keep their promises is rather confusing.

Technically, no one won the election.

 

[Numb1lp]

These protests were much bigger, much larger, and all over purported 'cuts' to help save Britain's economy.
Meanwhile the Government introduces tax cuts?
Hardly consistent with trying to store money.

But you have to understand that tax cuts improve the economy. The more money people have, the more they're willing to spend.

 

[Realitycrash]

So, is it the revolution yet or can I go back to sleep?
I hope something good comes out of this.

 

[Altaria87]

Oh well, once again a whole bunch of people fail to grasp that our country is very very poor at the moment. It's always the way, everyone likes the idea of saving money but no one wants the cuts to affect them personally.

Yes, no-one wants the cuts to effect them personally when Bankers are still 'earning' Billion pound bonuses and not getting punished in the slightest for getting us into this whole mess. Instead, the Coalition continue to trot out the party line "Labour got us into this mess" and destroy anything good Tony Blair accomplished (AKA, pretty much everything before Iraq)

 

[Spacewolf]

Spoiler

Man, I feel so bad for them. They're going to have to pay for their tuition like I do!

This is what happens when the entitlement mentality is threatened by removal of the teat.

EDIT: I actually do feel sorry for them, though I said that with sarcasm. For years they lived in a world where they were allowed to establish a feeling of entitlement, and now it's been taken away. Probably for their better, but it's a shame that the socialist government programs killed their spirits so much that they feel they MUST have the government nipple to suckle from.

not really the problem is that they are going up because their used to be a cap and now universities can once again be the reserve of upper class people who can aford such high tuition fees

 

[Sticky Squid]

If they wanted to protest against the Government they should just have gathered people and had them loudly play a very annoying song.

 

[similar.squirrel]

I find it a bit strange that the President of a University [in Ireland, leastways] earns in excess of 200k.

 

[YesIPlayTheBagpipes]

just some protests really.

 

[Worgen]

Yes the wreck of the economy is caused by socialists and not by capitalist bankers giving themselves millions of dollars of pay and then having to be bailed out by the governments you so demonise.

Do me a favor, point out where I said the bankers were pristine? That's a bit off topic, but lets be honest, government programs were enticing the bankers to act in the way they did. Rating programs, the whole community housing acts, giving people loans who could never pay it back because they were in an "under-served" community (e.g. poor enough that they can't pay the loan back) caused a bubble to form.

After people saw just how bad the housing bubble was, they sold their toxic investments to other industries, and the whole thing went kablooie. The banks are at fault for being complicit, but the prime evil in that problem was the government.

you mean a company would game the system to get as much out of it as it could? NOO I refuse to believe it, ITS NOT POSSIBLE!!!!!

No, it wouldn't unless it was forced to. Why would they kill the goose that lays the golden eggs? Banking in America had been stable for nearly a century, and strangely enough, the Great Depression was also a product of government intervention into the market.

Banks act to make a profit in an environment of the economy, destroying it like a ponzi scheme doesn't maximize profits. Government acts only for political purposes, and frankly, almost none of the governing individuals have any experience acting in a real economic business before they're put in charge of the entire economy.

A business will destroy itself in the long run by trying to make as much money as it can quickly, just look at the example that is enron. Enron used creative accounting all over the place to make lots and lots of money quickly but ultimately destroyed itself in doing it, but the main problem was that it made a lot of other companies get onto the me too train. Most of the banks had been stable for a very long time but then the regulations of the industry started to be torn down by the champions of deregulation and eventually banks decided they wanted to get their paws into that fast money pot also.

your right about elected officials not having any experience with that sort of thing when they get elected, its pretty much impossible for them to have an expert level in anything to get elected since to get elected you need to be an expert in getting elected so that kind of prevents expertise in most other fields. But anyway thats actually why we have lobbyists, ideally the lobbyist is there to provide guidance on issues that are related to an industry or social group that the elected official might not know much about, altho in todays world the lobbyist is mostly just a mouth piece for whatever group hired it.

 

[YesIPlayTheBagpipes]

British Politics 101. The Tories (Conservative, right wing, very rich and posh, not as stupid or racist as the American Right wing.) joined in a Coalition with the Liberal Democrats (centre, although recently getting more right wing, relatively posh but not as posh as tories, relativly unimportant till now)
and have started to cut everything (which they were planning to do for years before the meltdown) using the ecnomic crisis as a justification, despite saying the exact opposite during the election. The Lib Dems have been a doormat to all this (despite saying the exact opposite during the election). The Coalition have been Gerrymandering up in Scotland and cutting Labour( left wing, ones who cocked everything up in the first place, althought with a new leader, "Red Ed") held areas, like Liverpool, by 10% whilst cutting Tory areas by less than 1%. Basically the Tories are rich so can afford private schooling and healthcare whilst cutting public-funded Healthcare and Education, meaning less taxes BUT the majority of people cannot afford private services and that is creating friction. there is also fighting within the Coalition and within the Lib Dems as the older generation like Menizes Campbell (former party leader, Olympic Gold Medalist) rebel against the younger leadership who are cow-towing down to the Tories. Scotland is largely unaffected, due to it's own Parliament and Scottish National Party government under Alex Salmond, who may just be a Jedi.

 

[ratman995]

People just don't understand economics especially thugs that riot, the cuts have to be made, even though i believe they are being cut too much in the core areas (Education, Security and Safety and Health) they had to be made. The government has to educate the country about the measures to make sure Britain gets in more debt than post-ww1 germany. So yeah in conclusion the cuts have to made, thugs don't understand and cuts are in the wrong areas.

 

[Wicky_42]

Well they shouldn't have voted for the people they voted for in the first place.

Erm we didn't I voted labour personally and the election was pretty much a 3 way split The Conservative party only got into power because they got support of the Liberal Democrats. They basically took power without the consent of the people. This non-democratic system is why some people want proportional respresentation in this country.

Oh. I somehow had stuck in my brain that (don't ask me how) Liberals promised not to raise these educational fees (WOW you can really tell I am neither English native nor un-tired) and then won the election and raised those fees. But if Conservatives are involved it makes more sense. Hope you have enough natural resources in the UK to be able to afford making education non-accessible to many.

To elaborate a little, back in the early 2000s Labour was elected, promising not to INTRODUCE tuition fees - higher education was free before. The only thing previous generations had to pay for were their accommodation (thus neatly undermining arguments about student's 'entitlement' issues).

By 2004 that same government introduced tuition fees at around £3000. Back-stabbing politicians, right?

Since then, the price has been slowly creeping up, just a few tens of pounds a year.

In 2010's elections the Liberals ran with a promise to CUT tuition fees completely within a couple of years, signing pledges and all that good stuff. They felt secure in these promises because they didn't think they had a chance in hell of gaining political power.

The Conservatives came out of the elections with just about half the seats - enough to allow them to form a government, but they'd be completely hamstrung in Parliament. Labour and the Liberals considered a coalition to form a government by combining, but even then their combined seats wouldn't give them a majority, so the only solid government that could be formed was a Liberal/Conservative coalition. Two ideologically opposed parties, with almost opposite stances on a range of issues, including tuition fees. Which the Liberals conceded on to the Conservative's demands. As they did on most issues.

Basically, the Liberal's student votes, won through a campaign of tuition fee cuts went on to help form a government that those voters actually strongly opposed.

Wonderful example of democracy in action, and should hopefully explain some of the anger in the student protests last year :/

OT: loving how many people assume it's students protesting and that obviously they are all entitled twats. Yay for exercising your democratic right to protest - instantly be considered scum by ignorant prats!

These protests are against the cuts, and of course since it's not students protesting obviously it's not about entitlement -.-U

Honestly, if tax dodging by just a few of the larger corporations was clamped down on all these stupid raising fees and heavy cuts that seriously adversely affect the large bulk of the population could be avoided. But, of course, it's easier to take away stuff from the poor than it is to get the rich to part with any of their wealth. Ironically.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Alot of people quoted me so I think I should do some sort of blanket response perhaps.

My BA is in History and my BSc is in Information Technology a few days ago I got a job as a web designer and researcher (for the government ironically) so yeah it paid off. I also worked in a supermarket from year 11 in high school (for ease of americans) to 2 years after university. I would have liked to have gone for a phd but unfortunately my dad passed away from cancer quite suddenly during my finals and I slipped a grade, shit happens I guess :/

I think certain things in society should be a given, free healthcare and helping those with good grades to reach thier full potential as just two. My grandma (90) is just as intelligent as me and she was put in a mill from when she was 14 years old I really wouldn't like to go back to those days when truly capitalism was in charge.

People will take advantage of charity but it tends to be the most ignorant who do (the chavs of britain) so how does taking away education help that? We should think as a society, we are all on this planet together and yes people are assholes but surely treating them like crap makes you just as bad.

Oh and my mum went to the marches becuase of job cuts, she lost her job but luckily is old enough to get volutary redundancy some of her friends weren't so lucky. It wasn't about student fees really just so you know.

 

[Wicky_42]

Man, I feel so bad for them. They're going to have to pay for their tuition like I do!

This is what happens when the entitlement mentality is threatened by removal of the teat.

EDIT: I actually do feel sorry for them, though I said that with sarcasm. For years they lived in a world where they were allowed to establish a feeling of entitlement, and now it's been taken away. Probably for their better, but it's a shame that the socialist government programs killed their spirits so much that they feel they MUST have the government nipple to suckle from.

"Derp, I worked sooooo hard so I could pay for my own way, so why shouldn't everyone else?"

I dunno, why don't you ask their parents how much their fees were? Oh, that's right - until 2004 higher education was FREE for EVERYONE who wanted a place, and had been for generations.

Perhaps you should ask those politicians who implemented the tuition fees to pay the same amount of money for the education they had all those years ago - oh wait, by that education they've been able to comfortably pay not only for their own education but also many others' as well through their higher tax band - it's almost as if heavily subsidising higher education leads to a more educated, better paid, economically stronger workforce whose benefits go beyond the cost of educating them in the first place.

When these new fees get tripled just 6 years after their introduced, who do these students think they are getting pissed? I mean, it's not like they voted for a party that promised to abolish them and then teamed up with an ideologically opposite party to triple them, right? OH WAIT, it's exactly like that.

Of course, your knee-jerk response to the mention of protests being "Entitled students derp" just shows how well that self-paid education is doing for you, what with this being 500,000 normal members of the populace protesting against the government's campaign of cuts to jobs, spending, pensions, support etc whilst allowing major corporations to dodge the vast majority of the taxes that they should be paying.

 

[Magikarp]

I think violent protestors should be shot. It might be a bit extreme, but a coin covered firework could easily blind or kill a policeman who isn't wearing a riot helmet.