And Now For Some Truth

[BillyBlackSheep]

It's interesting to me that multiple GamerGate people have linked me to that same site today. Especially when it's for the Association of Food Journalists of all things.I guess you people have been sharing links.

I remember reading a story about how a collection of critics were up in arms because their exclusive, advanced screening of The Avengers wasn't catered to their liking. They ended up raiding the hotel bar. I found that mental image amusing.

Now here's the part of the conversation that GamerGate folks tend to conveniently ignore. The line between entertainer/product reviewer/rumor mill attendant is incredibly blurry in every medium. How else do you explain a website like latino-review? What is the code of ethics to be applied to them, a site that features their own film reviews, considering that not only do they know people in the industry but their entire website depends on keeping those connections healthy because that's how they get all of their pre-release scoops?

And how is that any less of a bed buddies situation than the one that sites like the Escapist find themselves in?

It was the first link I got when googling "Food critic ethics", so, uh, blame google?

If you can give me a link to the story, I'll read it and form an opinion on it. Can't really comment on it like that.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with latino-review. It's a reviews site for latinos? I guess it's kinda sad that we apparently need this since other websites don't cater enough to that demographic? Honestly, I don't see what you mean, though. Do they live in the same apartment with their sources and healthy contacts?

What bed buddies situation with sites like The Escapist? Mind elaborating on that? You are being kind of vague here.

Sorry, I'll explain. Latino-review is a scoop site. Their major beat is rumors, essentially. Whenever you hear something like "Benedict Cumberbatch in talks to play Dr. Strange!" or "Planet Hulk to be next Marvel film?" there's a very good chance that it came directly from them before making the rounds to the rest of the internet. Start checking the sources at the bottom of articles and you'll notice their name come up a lot.

But they also release their own film reviews. That's pretty common, actually. I think ScreenCrush does the same song and dance. So what's their code of ethics? And how is that any worse than what what gaming websites pull in terms of unspoken industry connections? Heck, latino-review can't EVER release the names of their sources or which projects they worked on directly. And they've even been accused of just making stuff up on slow news days because of that.

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

I believe that it's critically important who fired the first shot. Or shots, in this case. It's not important to ending the discussion but it's very important to having the discussion. And especially going over the morality of it. You believe that nobody deserves that kind of harassment regardless of what they've done. Even if they engaged in the exact same behaviors against someone else. That's a noble sentiment and I respect you for it but it's one that I simply don't share.

If that makes me just as bad as the worst of the lot in the eyes of other people then that's just something I'll have to live with. But it's not a careless or thoughtless decision on my part.

By that logic, Leigh Alexander, Zoe Quinn, and Ben Kuchera deserved their harassment, something I highly doubt you believe. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, my friend. If you believe harassment is wrong, then don't make exceptions for it.

One more thing - both sides legitimately see the other as having fired the first shot. Both sides view the other as the more guilty party, as the real bully here. The very reasoning you're using here is the exact same reasoning the harassers in GG have been using to justify their actions. Does being a victim make it right to victimize others?

 

[BillyBlackSheep]

I believe that it's critically important who fired the first shot. Or shots, in this case. It's not important to ending the discussion but it's very important to having the discussion. And especially going over the morality of it. You believe that nobody deserves that kind of harassment regardless of what they've done. Even if they engaged in the exact same behaviors against someone else. That's a noble sentiment and I respect you for it but it's one that I simply don't share.

If that makes me just as bad as the worst of the lot in the eyes of other people then that's just something I'll have to live with. But it's not a careless or thoughtless decision on my part.

By that logic, Leigh Alexander, Zoe Quinn, and Ben Kuchera deserved their harassment, something I highly doubt you believe. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, my friend. If you believe harassment is wrong, then don't make exceptions for it.

One more thing - both sides legitimately see the other as having fired the first shot. Both sides view the other as the more guilty party, as the real bully here. The very reasoning you're using here is the exact same reasoning the harassers in GG have been using to justify their actions. Does being a victim make it right to victimize others?

I've had this conversation many times in my life. And every time I've come up with the same answer: being a victim affords you the right to retaliation. You may not believe that but it's what I believe. That's not some "side" talking. That's not blind rage. That's my earnest belief after having long considered the question.

 

[blackmanon4chan]

As far as your last paragraph goes... I don't even know, man. I don't know if English is your second language but it's clearly your worst language. You're going to have to figure out some way to fix that mess if you want me to answer... whatever it is that you're trying to ask me.

yeah 0k i get your jib now your the type to make swooping assumptions about others and not quite understand what they are getting at. English is my first language, but I've tried to turn your statement into a logical disproof, which is my bad assuming that everyone understands logic(mathematical), and not quite sure how to use symbols in the escapist, and i never really format, and i make run on sentences because i pay no attention to grammer, or spelllling . what I'm trying to say is that your all over the place and contradict yourself within your own statements, while denouncing everyone as less intelligent than yourself. you believe your own hype dude.

especially when i see you type

"My "lack of intelligence".

"Firth".

You are a brilliant comedic mind."

dude did you just use a typo to verify your intelligence? really? common son


also

with much the same language as each other, inform me that no, nobody was ever doxxed by them

does not equal

" DENYING IT EVER HAPPENED."

your statements:

"minority of intelligent people"

&

"minority of ACTIVE harassers"

&

"big majority of idiots"

this conflicts with your statement:

"Even though there's miles of evidence that that happened they wanted it known that history played out according to their own very selective memories and that they were never guilty of even the slightest bit of antagonism"

as you are now admitting to a minority of harassers. so which is it? You admit that there are a minority of actual harassers, yet the rest are not. but those who use the hashtag must forever be brought down by their minority. in which case i guess you MUST acknowledge the fact that people on you "side" have been attacking gamergaters and can not get past it. or that the primary person on the anti-gg side who was "Exposing" sock accounts turned out to actually be a sock account(a_real_girl_irl). do you think its kinda foolish to hold you accountable for the actions of those that you dont condone.... well actually im guessing you do condone them given your thief comment.



going forward with your statements

which they REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE, it is completely silly that they are complaining about getting doxxed themselves

this does not equal

with much the same language as each other, inform me that no, nobody was ever doxxed by them

saying it wasn't me is not denying it existed, it is saying it wasn't me. as in why are you bringing up the actions of others saying this when i condemn them and don't like them. you are bringing this up just to derail the overall sentiment, to be honest gg's have been doing this as well; i.e. harassment from the anti-gg side doesn't mean that misogyny isn't still bad(their overall platform).

basically your under the assumption that this is a group... it is not, it is just people using a hashtag to state that they agree with something.

my last paragraph:: to be honest from your original statement of:
"I still think that GamerGate members complaining about getting doxxed is like a thief complaining about getting shot while breaking into someone's house."
makes me not want to take you seriously.
maybe you need another situation, but this one is wrong, and really off putting. basically your saying they deserve it. is that really what you mean? are you actually a ghoul in disguise?

Secondly im guessing your making the same mistake many on the "anti"-side make in that thinking "SJW", as a derogatory label, is an anti-feminist sentiment. is this true?

also dude, i see your comments and your quickness to call everyone stupid, and immediately know why people where hostile towards you.

ps. crap half way threw i started to turn this back into a logical disproof, Ive already had to go threw and remove all my if's and iff's

 

[BillyBlackSheep]

As far as your last paragraph goes... I don't even know, man. I don't know if English is your second language but it's clearly your worst language. You're going to have to figure out some way to fix that mess if you want me to answer... whatever it is that you're trying to ask me.

yeah 0k i get your jib now your the type to make swooping assumptions about others and not quite understand what they are getting at. English is my first language, but I've tried to turn your statement into a logical disproof, which is my bad assuming that everyone understands logic(mathematical), and not quite sure how to use symbols in the escapist, and i never really format, and i make run on sentences because i pay no attention to grammer, or spelllling . what I'm trying to say is that your all over the place and contradict yourself within your own statements, while denouncing everyone as less intelligent than yourself. you believe your own hype dude.

especially when i see you type

"My "lack of intelligence".

"Firth".

You are a brilliant comedic mind."

dude did you just use a typo to verify your intelligence? really? common son


also

with much the same language as each other, inform me that no, nobody was ever doxxed by them

does not equal

" DENYING IT EVER HAPPENED."

your statements:

"minority of intelligent people"

&

"minority of ACTIVE harassers"

&

"big majority of idiots"

this conflicts with your statement:

"Even though there's miles of evidence that that happened they wanted it known that history played out according to their own very selective memories and that they were never guilty of even the slightest bit of antagonism"

as you are now admitting to a minority of harassers. so which is it? You admit that there are a minority of actual harassers, yet the rest are not. but those who use the hashtag must forever be brought down by their minority. in which case i guess you MUST acknowledge the fact that people on you "side" have been attacking gamergaters and can not get past it. or that the primary person on the anti-gg side who was "Exposing" sock accounts turned out to actually be a sock account(a_real_girl_irl). do you think its kinda foolish to hold you accountable for the actions of those that you dont condone.... well actually im guessing you do condone them given your thief comment.



going forward with your statements

which they REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE, it is completely silly that they are complaining about getting doxxed themselves

this does not equal

with much the same language as each other, inform me that no, nobody was ever doxxed by them

saying it wasn't me is not denying it existed, it is saying it wasn't me. as in why are you bringing up the actions of others saying this when i condemn them and don't like them. you are bringing this up just to derail the overall sentiment, to be honest gg's have been doing this as well; i.e. harassment from the anti-gg side doesn't mean that misogyny isn't still bad(their overall platform).

basically your under the assumption that this is a group... it is not, it is just people using a hashtag to state that they agree with something.

my last paragraph:: to be honest from your original statement of:
"I still think that GamerGate members complaining about getting doxxed is like a thief complaining about getting shot while breaking into someone's house."
makes me not want to take you seriously.
maybe you need another situation, but this one is wrong, and really off putting. basically your saying they deserve it. is that really what you mean? are you actually a ghoul in disguise?

Secondly im guessing your making the same mistake many on the "anti"-side make in that thinking "SJW", as a derogatory label, is an anti-feminist sentiment. is this true?

also dude, i see your comments and your quickness to call everyone stupid, and immediately know why people where hostile towards you.

ps. crap half way threw i started to turn this back into a logical disproof, Ive already had to go threw and remove all my if's and iff's

... I seriously tried to read every word of what you just typed and it's a complete mess. The few bits that I could recognize as actual sentences were clearly arguments from a total lack of reading comprehension. You seem to be trying to argue for some kind of logical fallacy but you actually don't know what I've even typed. Are you dyslexic? I'm sorry, I just really have no idea how to respond to you.

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

I've had this conversation many times in my life. And every time I've come up with the same answer: being a victim affords you the right to retaliation. You may not believe that but it's what I believe. That's not some "side" talking. That's not blind rage. That's my earnest belief after having long considered the question.

If you seriously believe that, then the people in GamerGate that are harassing others are justified in their actions. That belief of yours absolves GamerGate of every wrong thing they have done, because they are victims too.

To quote Ghandi again, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

 

[BillyBlackSheep]

By that logic, Leigh Alexander, Zoe Quinn, and Ben Kuchera deserved their harassment, something I highly doubt you believe. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, my friend. If you believe harassment is wrong, then don't make exceptions for it.

One more thing - both sides legitimately see the other as having fired the first shot. Both sides view the other as the more guilty party, as the real bully here. The very reasoning you're using here is the exact same reasoning the harassers in GG have been using to justify their actions. Does being a victim make it right to victimize others?

I've had this conversation many times in my life. And every time I've come up with the same answer: being a victim affords you the right to retaliation. You may not believe that but it's what I believe. That's not some "side" talking. That's not blind rage. That's my earnest belief after having long considered the question.

If you seriously believe that, then the people in GamerGate that are harassing others are justified in their actions. That belief of yours justifies every wrong thing that GamerGate has done, because they are victims too.

To quote Ghandi again, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.[/quote]

I can see how you would come to that conclusion. However, I personally think it's quite clear that the GamerGate people began a campaign of harassment and only stopped after they had built up enough steam to no longer feel that they had to rely on such tactics. That and because they suddenly felt the sting of retaliation. It's possible that they'd still be leading attacks against people if people hadn't pushed back.

I am confident that their reading of history, while clearly different, is so warped as to be easily dismissed.

 

[blackmanon4chan]

... I seriously tried to read every word of what you just typed and it's a complete mess. The few bits that I could recognize as actual sentences were clearly arguments from a total lack of reading comprehension. You seem to be trying to argue for some kind of logical fallacy but you actually don't know what I've even typed. Are you dyslexic? I'm sorry, I just really have no idea how to respond to you.

Ok i forgot people dont actually know logic, they only know these "fallacies" that they read on Wikipedia. Ok layman's terms your not smarter than everyone else. You run into hostility online on these forums because you think your opinion is the right one and all others, no matter the argument, are wrong. Your just stubborn.


Real logic: (p--> (g&r)) r), is my statement valid?

Like i said halfway through my writing i tryed making a actual logical proof (just forgot to translate it back to normal speech).
Edit: unnecessary final comment

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

I can see how you would come to that conclusion. However, I personally think it's quite clear that the GamerGate people began a campaign of harassment and only stopped after they had built up enough steam to no longer feel that they had to rely on such tactics. That and because they suddenly felt the sting of retaliation. It's possible that they'd still be leading attacks against people if people hadn't pushed back.

I am confident that their reading of history, while clearly different, is so warped as to be easily dismissed.

Both sides have their own warped idea of how this all started. It's not anywhere near as clear-cut as you claim, otherwise this whole maelstrom would've died by now.

Everything you are saying about GG is precisely what they've been saying about it's critics - that they're rewriting history and manipulating the facts to spin a story, that their story is so warped as to easily be dismissed, that GG is the one pushing back against people who are attacking them, that the campaign of harassment is against GG and always has been. Both sides are doing the exact same crap for the exact same reasons. Do you not see how this is making everything worse? I hate to be so rude, but do you even care if things ever get better? If all of this fighting and harassment ever stops? Why are you doing the exact same thing that you are condemning others for? What's your goal here?