Andrew Cuomo's implosion

Agema

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I would argue that scientists usually aren't good at arguing because they can't convey an idea that impacts the general public.
One might argue that scientists are good at putting a case to scientists, and journalists are good at putting a case to the public. And then there are some scientists good at putting a scientific case to the public, and a handful of journalists who understand science well enough to put a scientific case accurately to the public.
 

tippy2k2

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I would argue that scientists usually aren't good at arguing because they can't convey an idea that impacts the general public.

As to the suicide topic, it was always weird to me that cancelling lockdowns would decrease suicide. If you're being forced into work that could lead to Covid, you are going to be stressed about your health and finances. If you go anywhere near your family, you could kill them. You could die just by buying lunch. That sounds like it could increase suicides to me.

It also weirded me out that Trump solution wasn't putting money into mental health services
That's because as Americans, all we need is some good old fashioned boot straps to pull our sadness out of our bodies!

It's amazing how versitile boot straps are!
 

Buyetyen

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As to the suicide topic, it was always weird to me that cancelling lockdowns would decrease suicide. If you're being forced into work that could lead to Covid, you are going to be stressed about your health and finances. If you go anywhere near your family, you could kill them. You could die just by buying lunch. That sounds like it could increase suicides to me.

It also weirded me out that Trump solution wasn't putting money into mental health services
Speaking as someone who has been suicidal in the past, pretty much this. There are few things more aggravating than being volun-told to be someone else's bad faith bargaining chip.
 

Mister Mumbler

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That's because as Americans, all we need is some good old fashioned boot straps to pull our sadness out of our bodies!

It's amazing how versitile boot straps are!
In order to get the most sadness pulling power out of your boot straps, it's best to tie them in a sort of circular shape.
 
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Dirty Hipsters

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Lockdown is bearable (but not fun) for people who already have a spouse, children or other people nearby to spend their lockdown time with or who, like us gamers, can just get on discord and play some games with our friends. But for the people who get their daily human interaction from talking to their workmates, the cashier in the grocery store or random people on the street taking people hostage it is a catastrophe.
Fixed that for you.
 

Agema

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Generally speaking, isolation does really weird things to peoples psyches. Humans are meant to meet and interact with other humans on a regular basis, because it does wonderful things to us physiologically, and to not do so does the reverse, it causes a ton of psychological issues. One of the biggest issues we meet in modern psychiatry is isolated people without regular contact with friends or family, because it massively exacerbates underlying mental health problems and causes suicidal ideation. Loneliness kills.

Lockdown is bearable (but not fun) for people who already have a spouse, children or other people nearby to spend their lockdown time with or who, like us gamers, can just get on discord and play some games with our friends. But for the people who get their daily human interaction from talking to their workmates, the cashier in the grocery store or random people on the street it is a catastrophe.
I'm quite highly introverted, so broadly I'm mostly happy not speaking to people to much and I'll amuse myself. However, I have noticed the less I've been speaking to people under lockdown (excluding my wife), the less I even want to. I think it is a warning that I could just slip away into self-isolation quite easily. I also think it's going to be a lot of effort for me to get back into normal social contact when it ends.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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There was nothing really wrong with the initial statement you complained about, which makes protesting it even more pointless when you accept Trump spent his time propounding misinformation and bad policy.
Actually there was it's a common bit of misinformation saying Trump made a claim he actually didn't.

You want to bash Trump for poor handling of it or other statements go ahead but bash him for what he actually has said not for what he didn't but dishonest hacks chose to claim he did because they failed at basic listening and understanding 101
 

Dwarvenhobble

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One might argue that scientists are good at putting a case to scientists, and journalists are good at putting a case to the public. And then there are some scientists good at putting a scientific case to the public, and a handful of journalists who understand science well enough to put a scientific case accurately to the public.
It's more Scientists are used to working with specific complex terms while journalists if they did their job are meant to try and break this down into a digestible explanation. What actually tends to happen is they try for the most salacious sensational story they can make often not accurate to what was actually said or the scientific reality of what's happening or is even possible.

Science reporting.png
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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Speaking as someone who has been suicidal in the past, pretty much this. There are few things more aggravating than being volun-told to be someone else's bad faith bargaining chip.
As some-one else who has been suicidal in the past and can look back and make the joke (yes I'm sure some of you are unhappy to hear I never followed through on it to a serious degree).

One of the worst things is sitting up on the roof of a 4 story building alone and just realising how alone you are up there with just your thoughts and just how easy it would be to not have to deal with things anymore if you just let yourself slide off that roof.

Feeling socially isolated can be awful and with some people living alone if they're not doing zoom calls or stuff they can feel very alone even now in the age of social media (which in itself can be more isolating thanks to the mobs on there now).
 

Agema

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What actually tends to happen is they try for the most salacious sensational story they can make often not accurate to what was actually said or the scientific reality of what's happening or is even possible.
Like any news, it depends heavily on the journalist and newspaper - the more reputable, the more they take accurate reporting seriously. A person who gets their science from tabloids deserves all the salacious misinformation he or she gets.

However, even at the better end it genuinely is a limiting factor that the average science journalist in a major news organisation doesn't have a science degree - although you'd hope they pick some stuff up over the years with experience. Never mind the other journalists who for whatever reason find themselves needing to cover a science story despite no meaningful experience at all.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Like any news, it depends heavily on the journalist and newspaper - the more reputable, the more they take accurate reporting seriously. A person who gets their science from tabloids deserves all the salacious misinformation he or she gets.

However, even at the better end it genuinely is a limiting factor that the average science journalist in a major news organisation doesn't have a science degree - although you'd hope they pick some stuff up over the years with experience. Never mind the other journalists who for whatever reason find themselves needing to cover a science story despite no meaningful experience at all.
I dunno Theranos and other stuff managed to keep being spread and pushed. Even when they do report on it they might throw people who were exposing things under the bus with dodgy editing jobs

 

fOx

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It seemed to be the SOP for a bunch of places (or maybe it just seems that way because my governor, a Democrat, did the exact same thing). A lot of them for whatever reason decided "Hey, you know that highly infectious disease that fucks the shit out of seniors? Well if they catch it, better send them back to the Senior Homes!!!"

Like...I don't even know what the logic would have been at the time that made them think it was a good idea. If the hospitals were filling up, at the very least keeping COVID positive seniors away from other seniors would have been a good idea. We may not have the knowledge of COVID like we do now but I don't think there was anyone even at the beginning of this that thought that seniors would have no issues dealing with COVID...

I'm also not sure why this is blowing up in Cuomo's face and not Waltz's (my governors) or other governors who did this. Is it just because Cuomo tried to hide it or was something extra done in New York that wasn't done in many other places?

Note: I'm not absolving Cuomo (or my governor or any other who did the same thing); I'm merely curious why Cuomo is getting dragged through the coals and not all these other guys/gals in charge.
You know that's a very good question. Certainly Cuomo was caught covering it up and he certainly was better known before the scandal hit, but there really should be a nationwide reckoning as to why this happened.
Because cuomo got #metoo'd, and this is just extra fuel for the fire. If he hadn't gotten caught for sex crimes, no one would care about the cover up or seniors, except their families.

That's why your governors won't get punished. That's why my governor won't be punished.

I'll take justice where I can get it. Let him burn in the deepest, darkest pit of hell.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Because cuomo got #metoo'd, and this is just extra fuel for the fire. If he hadn't gotten caught for sex crimes, no one would care about the cover up or seniors, except their families.

That's why your governors won't get punished. That's why my governor won't be punished.

I'll take justice where I can get it. Let him burn in the deepest, darkest pit of hell.
Republicans has been on about the seniors for many months. So have some what I'd say fallen Democrats.

Cuomo being #Metooed is just and excuse to distance from him considering most aren't new allegations. Hell #Metoo is a partisan movement now afterdistancing itself from Rose due to her saying the woman accusing Joe Biden should be supported and not see people act to suppress the story or call her a liar.

My best guess now. When Trump was in power Cuomo was seen as politically good because his negligent harmful actions helped push up the death total and the blame could be placed on Trump for now handling things well. Now Trump is out of office they need to show a difference and suddenly Cuomo's incompetence and negligence is being exposed and it doesn't look good for the Democrats so he's no longer useful as a tool for them so they want him out.
 

tstorm823

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Republicans has been on about the seniors for many months. So have some what I'd say fallen Democrats.

Cuomo being #Metooed is just and excuse to distance from him considering most aren't new allegations. Hell #Metoo is a partisan movement now afterdistancing itself from Rose due to her saying the woman accusing Joe Biden should be supported and not see people act to suppress the story or call her a liar.

My best guess now. When Trump was in power Cuomo was seen as politically good because his negligent harmful actions helped push up the death total and the blame could be placed on Trump for now handling things well. Now Trump is out of office they need to show a difference and suddenly Cuomo's incompetence and negligence is being exposed and it doesn't look good for the Democrats so he's no longer useful as a tool for them so they want him out.
I was ready to like this post up until the suggestion that people were trying to make the death toll rise. That's a little extreme. I'll give you gross negligence, I'd suggest Democrats were so focused on suggesting Trump's actions were paradoxically both insufficient and unneeded, they failed to prioritize actually doing the right thing, and Cuomo was king of this. "You didn't send nearly enough respirators, but also we don't need your hospital boat!" *puts patients in nursing homes*. And like, politics over people's lives is bad enough, you don't have to over-sell it and act like people wanted more deaths.
 

crimson5pheonix

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The FBI is now investigating Cuomo and his corporate shield law that got written in across the country.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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I was ready to like this post up until the suggestion that people were trying to make the death toll rise. That's a little extreme. I'll give you gross negligence, I'd suggest Democrats were so focused on suggesting Trump's actions were paradoxically both insufficient and unneeded, they failed to prioritize actually doing the right thing, and Cuomo was king of this. "You didn't send nearly enough respirators, but also we don't need your hospital boat!" *puts patients in nursing homes*. And like, politics over people's lives is bad enough, you don't have to over-sell it and act like people wanted more deaths.
I just keep remembering Moviebob and realising there are likely more people like him out there "No bad tactics only bad targets" or others pushing for some "Greater Good" approach under the belief that far more people would die due to Trump if people didn't take action..........It's not a nice thought but I think Cuomo wont be the only one found to be doing this but he's the only one being focussed on right now.
 

Avnger

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I just keep remembering Moviebob and realising there are likely more people like him out there "No bad tactics only bad targets" or others pushing for some "Greater Good" approach under the belief that far more people would die due to Trump if people didn't take action..........It's not a nice thought but I think Cuomo wont be the only one found to be doing this but he's the only one being focussed on right now.
Tell us about the Jewish Space Lasers (tm) next! I mean as long as we're inventing conspiracies out of thing air...