Angry Birds Dev May Migrate To Ireland

[Karloff]

Angry Birds Dev May Migrate To Ireland

Rovio seeks low tax rates, may leave Finland.

It's not the call of the wild; it's the siren song of the tax dollar. Mikael Hed, Rovio Mobile's CEO and one of the three-man management team behind Angry Birds, has confirmed, in an Irish Times article, that the company is thinking of pulling up sticks and moving from Finland to Dublin. Nothing is written in stone, but Hed did say that the Irish authorities had made a very persuasive offer. Though Hed didn't go into great detail, the fact that Irish corporation taxes - at 12.5% - are about half the rates he'd expect to pay in Finland, will be a significant factor in Rovio's decision.

Some companies prefer to relocate their main offices, leaving their operations people in place, when relocating for tax purposes, but Hed did say that, if Rovio moved, some of its production crew would also end up in Ireland. Currently, Rovio employs about 400 people, most of them in Finland. "For now we have stayed in Finland," Hed said to the Times , "but [relocation] is on top of our minds."

If it does happen, it'd be as much a boon for Ireland as it is for Rovio. The Celtic Tiger really hasn't been doing that well on its austerity diet, and the country has been struggling to create professional jobs. The Irish Government has been trying to boost prospects by talking up its gaming cred, with the hope of doubling its game industry by 2014. A Finnish import would be a great boost to their bottom line, particularly if Rovio relocates production jobs as well as their head office.

Monty Python may have preferred to be in Finland [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rwc3VGvlRY], but will the Finns? When Rovio was just a fledgling, that 24.5% Finnish corporation tax probably didn't seem such a big a deal. Their profits have exploded since then, like a Blue Bird seeking bacon, and what was a relatively small nest egg has become a €75 million - over US$94 million - turnover, as of last year. Losing nearly a quarter of that to the government can't be fun. No wonder a home on the banks of the Liffey looks enticing!

Sources: Irish Times [http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/172105/Rovio_may_move_headquarters_to_Ireland.php]

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[Chrono212]

Doesn't PopCap have a big presence in Ireland too?

OT: Daymn, that's a low tax rate. Really where the "Celtic Tiger" economy came from.

 

[BrotherRool]

In some ways I wish companies wouldn't do this. If it were a case of these taxes driving companies out of business, well they'd have less awesome businesses in their country and the economy would suffer and people would see it and change it.

But the thing is, moving country is an expensive operation, so the companies who do it are the companies who are rich and want to be richer, and globally do we profit from this? Is more work done? Not really because Ireland doesn't profit by making companies more successful, it profits by convincing companies that are already successful in the world, to come to Ireland.

So the people who grew up on the Finnish education system, whose employees in the early days when it was three people in a room were kept healthy on Finnish healthcare and lived in the Finnish society and were kept safe by the Finnish army (lol) on Finnish roads, are now paying Ireland?

Like why should they even pay Ireland? They don't owe Ireland anything. What's the difference between this and Rovio locating their headquarters Rovioville or Atlantis, where the wise Atlanteans don't change any business tax at all? Conceptually it's not that different

 

[Pandalisk]

Just finished my geography exams for Leaving. Getting mighty sick of learning about our "12.5% corporate tax that encourages foreign investment! ". Never again.

With subsidies and the like Ireland is probably paying for Rovio. They pay the low corporation tax and they probably get a nice slice of CherryWood Estates or some place and other boons. Anyway, companies are fickle mistresses, patriotic loyalty isn't part of the gig.
Its all about being competitive.

....Think they'd employ me? :3

Doesn't PopCap have a big presence in Ireland too?

OT: Daymn, that's a low tax rate. Really where the "Celtic Tiger" economy came from.

Ayeeep, Footloose companies apparently adore us for it.
Now if only we didn't piss away all the money on empty housing estates and shopping malls..

 

[draythefingerless]

Why the fuck does this company need 400 employees?

 

[Chrono212]

But now they'll have to have the ice flown in and those birds aren't exactly good with landings!

Doesn't PopCap have a big presence in Ireland too?

OT: Daymn, that's a low tax rate. Really where the "Celtic Tiger" economy came from.

I don't know about that: Japan's rate is about three times that and they haven't exactly done badly for themselves. They can only attract existing successes not create their own. If Ireland really wants to get their mojo back, they need to focus on the beGuinness

Ireland doesn't have the cultural, language and geographic barrier for attarcting game businesses.

Japan has home-grown game companies, and there's some opinion that they're not doing so hot.

 

[Pandalisk]

I'm honestly surprised to hear about the gaming industry in Ireland.
the only game i was aware of produced in Ireland was this one game called "Folklore" i think? not a bad game actually.

 

[Chrono212]

But now they'll have to have the ice flown in and those birds aren't exactly good with landings!

Doesn't PopCap have a big presence in Ireland too?

OT: Daymn, that's a low tax rate. Really where the "Celtic Tiger" economy came from.

I don't know about that: Japan's rate is about three times that and they haven't exactly done badly for themselves. They can only attract existing successes not create their own. If Ireland really wants to get their mojo back, they need to focus on the beGuinness

Ireland doesn't have the cultural, language and geographic barrier for attarcting game businesses.

Japan has home-grown game companies, and there's some opinion that they're not doing so hot.

Well that's their own damn fault for not releasing half their original IP to American consumers.

As as for attracting video game business, Ireland can only do well when other countries are doing well and we've all seen the dangers of too much interdependence.

Indeed. Don't forget, there is the debt crisis that the Irish (among others) are still trying to sort out.

This could either be a shrewd or misguided use of tax breaks.

 

[An Ceannaire]

"The Irish Government has been trying to boost prospects by talking up its gaming cred, with the hope of doubling its game industry by 2014"

Really? I'm surprised our government even knew we had a games industry. Sure, there's no real big indigenous players (unless you count Havok), but theres a serious influx of big companies from abroad (Blizzard, Red5, Popcap etc)

 

[Mortuorum]

So the people who grew up on the Finnish education system, whose employees in the early days when it was three people in a room were kept healthy on Finnish healthcare and lived in the Finnish society and were kept safe by the Finnish army (lol) on Finnish roads, are now paying Ireland?

Like why should they even pay Ireland? They don't owe Ireland anything. What's the difference between this and Rovio locating their headquarters Rovioville or Atlantis, where the wise Atlanteans don't change any business tax at all? Conceptually it's not that different

I think you're confusing personal income tax with corporate income tax. Theoretically, the millions of dollars the founders of Rovio have paid in personal income tax has been adequate to cover the social benefits they've received from the Finnish government. And if any of them continue to reside in Finland, they will continue paying those personal income taxes, even though it's a certainty that the net value of benefits received will be insignificant compared to what they're paying in. That's what you get for living in a modern, developed country.

You say that they don't owe Ireland anything. So what? The business entity Rovio doesn't owe Finland anything either, unless they took out a loan form them they haven't repaid. They've paid their (outrageous) taxes for several years now, which has certainly adequately compensated the Finish government for the roads and utilities leading to their place of business. If a country doesn't provide an atmosphere that allows your business to thrive (through excessive legislation, taxation, union favoritism or other interference) it only makes sense to pack up and move elsewhere... assuming you live in a country where you have that freedom.

 

[BrotherRool]

So the people who grew up on the Finnish education system, whose employees in the early days when it was three people in a room were kept healthy on Finnish healthcare and lived in the Finnish society and were kept safe by the Finnish army (lol) on Finnish roads, are now paying Ireland?

Like why should they even pay Ireland? They don't owe Ireland anything. What's the difference between this and Rovio locating their headquarters Rovioville or Atlantis, where the wise Atlanteans don't change any business tax at all? Conceptually it's not that different

I think you're confusing personal income tax with corporate income tax. Theoretically, the millions of dollars the founders of Rovio have paid in personal income tax has been adequate to cover the social benefits they've received from the Finnish government. And if any of them continue to reside in Finland, they will continue paying those personal income taxes, even though it's a certainty that the net value of benefits received will be insignificant compared to what they're paying in. That's what you get for living in a modern, developed country.

You say that they don't owe Ireland anything. So what? The business entity Rovio doesn't owe Finland anything either, unless they took out a loan form them they haven't repaid. They've paid their (outrageous) taxes for several years now, which has certainly adequately compensated the Finish government for the roads and utilities leading to their place of business. If a country doesn't provide an atmosphere that allows your business to thrive (through excessive legislation, taxation, union favoritism or other interference) it only makes sense to pack up and move elsewhere... assuming you live in a country where you have that freedom.

But that's not true, the countries governments income is a sum of all their taxes bother personal and corporate. To be honest I've never even heard of a government saying their corporate tax is only to be used on non-personal services. What does that even mean? I mean defense, transport, education are all things that are just as important to Rovio as a company as they are to the individuals.

What's more the existence of Rovio as a company has been fostered by the Finnish system. What I'm saying is Finland have created something, they put the systems in place that allowed these people to be brilliant people. This is why there are much less successful Sierra Leone gaming industries, because they don't have the same environment to Finland.

And in truth peoples personal incomes aren't enough to pay for this stuff, it's not equal. Someone who goes through Uni experiences a lot more money from their government than someone who dropped out of education at an early age. And the idea is countries who've succesfully done this can then get some money from what they've done to do it for the next generation.

My biggest problem with what your saying is, why should Rovio pay at all? If they've repaid society then why the heck should Ireland be allowed to charge them money? Ireland aren't creating any wealth at all.

Like humans are lazy, we don't have perfect systems, but in a perfect world, everyone would make money by doing something useful, and Ireland haven't done a darn thing useful here.

 

[NeonWraith]

Yeah, Ireland doesn't actually encourage start ups in any meaningful way. They just attract established companies wanting smaller tax bills, which is what their whole economy was built on for years. One of the reasons Ireland will have trouble getting a bailout is because it refuses to raise the corporate tax rate, which will be guaranteed to be a bailout condition if/when (delete as appropriate) they need one.

 

[The Last Nomad]

I may not like angry birds and everything it has done to the gaming industry but my need for a job may require me to apply should they come to Ireland.

 

[NeonWraith]

I feel obligated to point out that if they do move, it'll most likely be a lot like when the BBC moved to Salford Quays; they wont actually create jobs beyond the cleaning staff and maybe security. All the talent they'll just transplant from Finland.

Another likely option is pointed out by the OP: They'll rent an office out somewhere and make it their HQ, and keep development in Finland, meaning they'll just have a (probably very nice) office full of admin staff and flying visits from high ups.

 

[ElPatron]

Good for them. Companies do that all the effing time so I don't really care anymore. I might have cared when I was a "14 year old Marxist prick".

In some ways I wish companies wouldn't do this. If it were a case of these taxes driving companies out of business, well they'd have less awesome businesses in their country and the economy would suffer and people would see it and change it.

That would be the case to say "Too late for them" and keep taxes high. Unless there is something in the water in Finland that actually prevents politicians from becoming complete morons.

 

[Racecarlock]

"Migrate! Get it? Because he made angry birds? Migrate? We still suck at jokes!"