Anime, Games and Porn

[Paragon Fury]

So tonight's "Thinky Time" topic is: Anime, Games and Porn.

Sounds like a recipe for a fun night, don't it?

Well yes. But not in the way you're hoping. Put your pants back on.


I had the thought for this topic yesterday when on another forum I saw someone call anime "Japanese Porn". A notion which of course is oviously untrue (particularly since anime "porn" has its own name), but a notion many seem to hold about the style.

However, my hand was forced into making a topic after reading a comment in an article about Dead or Alive 5, where the person said that "these girls are just porn stars the way they dress and act, so many games of today are just glorified porn. The perverse boys who get off on this kind of stuff should just get themselves some regular porn and not encourage developers to keep making this kind of smut".


Now putting aside all the problems of the comment itself (if DoA is porn......then what is a beach on a sunny weekened? Or the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue?), a thought wormed itself into my mind; if we could really call this "porn"......why would people choose it over "regular" porn?

I gave it some thought, and this is what I came up with. I'm excluding the reason of "games are interactive", because that is too easy and I feel unrelated to anime and many other things.

The "porn" and scenes included in much of this entertainment is much cleaner and nicer than what is presented in "regular" porn. The situations presented are often perfectly innocent, but just happen to have a really hot girl who doesn't have the same clothing inhibitions we have in the real world (or are just hot enough to the point where a sweatshirt and sweatpants looks skimpy) or are just slightly risque' situations. Even when the situation is not intended to be innocent, it often comes off much cleaner and less nasty than "real" porn. Even seemingly "nasty" scenes in anime (hentai) and games are far toned down compared to "real" porn. Not saying those really nasty scenes as such exist in anime (hentai) and games, but they seem to be far less common.

The women in anime (hentai) and games look much better than the women in "regular" porn. Obviously this is the nature of a fantasy world.... Obviously they can't compete with this:

SFW.....but a wee bit awkward to explain, so look at your own risk.

Spoiler

http://www.sailormoonhentaiworld.com/images/hentai--aino-minako--bishoujo-senshi-sailor-moon--blonde-hair--blue-eyes--bow--breast-squeeze--breasts--castella--choker--earrings--hair-bow--huge-breasts--jewelry--long-hair--open-mouth--sailor-venus--smile--solo.jpg

But sometimes it feels like they aren't even trying.

Its also safer than "real" porn. Playing a video game or watching an anime and hit the wrong button? Probably just pause it or go back to the main menu. Press the wrong button while watching/looking at "real" porn? You're lucky if you don't wind up with spam for the rest of your life, endless pop-ups and a computer that flies around the room because its possessed by so many viruses.

Story. It might seem silly....but some of these animes (hentai) and games put a decent amount of effort into their stories beyond "Fuck ALL the things!".

Deniability. One can easily pass off Dead or Alive 5 or Cat Planet Cuties etc. as something harmless and tame or something else completely at the store or with their parents. The same can not be said for a copy "Titty Tits McGee".


Maybe I'm thinking about it too much. But you know what.....it was interesting, to say the least.

 

[Loop Stricken]

Don't everyone rush in at once.

I'm not sure what you're asking of us.

 

[Lectori Salutem]

It might be me having no attention span whatsoever at this moment, since I'm tired as hell, but what is the exact point you're trying to make/ question you are asking?

 

[Kushin]

Being animated/modelled gives the creator a LOT more control over their product. That's all porn actors are in a way, workers creating porn to the wishes of the director. But what if you cut out the actors and all the variables that can go wrong (Illness, STD's, Pregnancy and breaking rules of physics (See Monzetsu's work for the best example)) and then going 'Nope'

Sure it all comes down to personal taste, some like one, the other or both, but in a sense, the anime and games have a 'clearer' vision of what the director/author wanted to bring across, but 'regular' porn has the link to reality to allow you to imagine yourself in the porn role which anime and games have, but nowhere near as much.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I dunno. The internet is full of porn, but nude mods are extremely popular. Sure, a person could download the odd terabyte of high quality professional movies, but someone's attempt at drawing boobs on a 3D model? Yeah that's somehow more exciting for many people.

Now, I could sorta understand if you were maybe going to play the game anyway, and just decided to add porn to it, still seems a bit weird.

 

[Playful Pony]

Well I don't know.. I'm not above sexyness, I do like that. Unfortunately I have my own breasts to play with, and suddenly animated ones become a lot less interesting. ... I don't know how it is to not have breasts though.. It's a long long time since they grew in, and when they hadn't I had more important problems to worry about (which pony is the cutest, and which Super Mario 64 level kicks more ass).

I'm not bothered if people like this stuff. I do find it silly though, a lot of it anyway. My roomie will loudly proclaim that the particular anime he was watching when I came downstairs to see what was up was "perfectly inocent and cool" until the very moment I walked in, when suddenly that really large-breasted girl with the absurdly short skirt trips on something invisible and we all get to enjoy a well-drawn panty shot (with ALL the details...). He gets even more redfaced when the anime girl gets up, breasts jiggling towards an awkward camera angle. I'm not bothered by this. I am a bit bothered that fans of the stuff so desperately defend it and tries to pass it off as something more grown-up and serious. It's sexyness. You liek sexyness. Just admit it. Maybe you like the story too, and you enjoy science fiction, highschool drama or whatever... I find it hard to believe that he honestly thinks the short skirts and full breasts are just an inconvenient downside that has to be suffered trough to enjoy the rest of the show. I know little about anime, but my female friends asure me it's not hard to find ones that doesn't have this.

My post is getting long... Bad, nobody will read it and debate with me. That makes me sad X3. Again I don't mind that people enjoy this stuff. It's not illegal, it's not even repulsive really... Heck I read yaoi manga. Furry yaoi manga even... That's much more perverted, but I can admit to that. Some are a bit over the top though... And if you want to have a good laugh, read Mister Mistress. It's so hillarious it's practically impossible to get turned on cause your too busy laughing X3.

 

[Phasmal]

You sure typed a lot of words and said next to nothing.
What on earth is this supposed to be about?

 

[peruvianskys]

What kind of fucking person considers that udder-bearing nymph "cleaner" or otherwise more wholesome than a real person? I consider that way, way creepier and sexually debased.

 

[Akytalusia]

well damn. here i was under the impression that porn was defined as a depiction of sexual interactions, but when i looked it up, according to dictionary.com anyway, it's actually a WIDE umbrella term for anything that's meant to create or satisfy a desire for something. anything. television commercials/internet ads are all porn by this definition... >.> is that right? either i'm missing something, or dictionary.com's been hacked. >.> i don't even know what to believe anymore. o.o;;

 

[Playful Pony]

It's true, though, due to Murphy's Law. Every TV show or movie will have a few moments that you'd be embarrassed to be seen watching, and which you definitely DON'T want other people to think of as representative of the whole work. And these are inevitably the scenes that happen to be playing whenever roomies/parents/etc. show up and want to know what you're doing.

I really want to believe this! I mean, sometimes when he ducks into my room and I'm playing a game just having done something really badass, and he catches me in time to see me fire an entire magazine into the wall besides my enemy and then be knifed in the face... I know those moments!

I want to believe, but I can't... It's just EVERY time I come down there X3. There is always an upskirt shot, always big jiggly boobs or a girl that happens to spill cooking oil on her breasts. Maybe a button pops off in a very "convenient" place, or a scene is for whatever reason drawn from the viewpoint of a pebble on the ground, looking UP into the cluster of schoolgirls in uniform...

What can I say. I want to respect his animes as decently written works with good stories and interesting characters. I really do, but they make it so damn hard! XD Not as hard as the sexy, sexy furrymanga guy decorating my desktop background right now, but still....

 

[hermes]

Although I don't agree with the original comment, this question is easy to ask:

why would people choose it over "regular" porn?

Because its safer. Not cleaner (I don't know/don't wanna know what you mean by it), but its easier to access and in a way guiltless.

People that got into that side of Dead or Alive (or, for what it matters, any other example of borderline erotic anime/games) did it because they were teenagers and lived with their parents at the time. As such, and in a time when Internet porn was nowhere near as common, having a game box or a DVD box with some cartoon was relatively easier to sneak by and justify to your parents, than a hardcore porn DVD box. As a kid, you could more easily convince your parents than Rumble Roses and Dead or Alive are popular, decent fighting games, or Highschool of the Dead is a deep, if a little dark, but mostly safe anime. Also, they were easier to access. You could go to a rent store and get it without much of the clandestine feeling.

In the end, people knew that these "clandestine porn" sold a lot, and many took advantage of it. Why do you think many of the victims of horror films in the 80s were topless women? Many series were built around kids and teenagers avoiding guilt. Jason literally targeted teenagers having sex. I don't want to sound utterly old or a pervert, but people in their 30s remember what it was like to sneak up on a Friday night to see some TV show our parents didn't let us see, and the reasons were simple: cheap violence and/or cheap nudity.

 

[burymagnets]

Anime, Games and Porn pretty much sums up my entire existance but I've never found them to bleed into one another

I think sexy anime is MORE dangerous, cause other people are gonna be less understanding. If I saw that picture of Sailor Moon was open on a mate's desktop I would think they were pretty weird, whereas if it was regular porn I would assume it was an accident, and think that they were just stupid.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

well damn. here i was under the impression that porn was defined as a depiction of sexual interactions, but when i looked it up, according to dictionary.com anyway, it's actually a WIDE umbrella term for anything that's meant to create or satisfy a desire for something. anything. television commercials/internet ads are all porn by this definition... >.> is that right? either i'm missing something, or dictionary.com's been hacked. >.> i don't even know what to believe anymore. o.o;;

You're slightly off on what that particular definition means. It's more like "something pretty to look at," although that doesn't quite cut it either. Point being, pictures of awesome guitars can be termed "guitar porn," despite not having anything sexual about them. Ditto for "car porn" and "<link=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SceneryPorn>scenery porn." You might even term chick flicks or even something like Katawa Shoujo[footnote]yes, Katawa Shoujo has elements of regular porn too... except that it rarely steps beyond what would count as R-rated material, and again, the actual sex is incidental, something that happens because of the plot instead of the other way around[/footnote] "emotion porn," since what draws most people to them are the emotions they engender. I don't know, I guess what I'm getting at is "hollow substitute for the real thing that's still better than nothing if it's all you can get?"

 

[Risingblade]

Well sometimes we like the tease, the catch is much more enjoyable when you have to chase.

 

[Therumancer]

So tonight's "Thinky Time" topic is: Anime, Games and Porn.

Sounds like a recipe for a fun night, don't it?

Well yes. But not in the way you're hoping. Put your pants back on.


I had the thought for this topic yesterday when on another forum I saw someone call anime "Japanese Porn". A notion which of course is oviously untrue (particularly since anime "porn" has its own name), but a notion many seem to hold about the style.

However, my hand was forced into making a topic after reading a comment in an article about Dead or Alive 5, where the person said that "these girls are just porn stars the way they dress and act, so many games of today are just glorified porn. The perverse boys who get off on this kind of stuff should just get themselves some regular porn and not encourage developers to keep making this kind of smut".


Now putting aside all the problems of the comment itself (if DoA is porn......then what is a beach on a sunny weekened? Or the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue?), a thought wormed itself into my mind; if we could really call this "porn"......why would people choose it over "regular" porn?

I gave it some thought, and this is what I came up with. I'm excluding the reason of "games are interactive", because that is too easy and I feel unrelated to anime and many other things.

The "porn" and scenes included in much of this entertainment is much cleaner and nicer than what is presented in "regular" porn. The situations presented are often perfectly innocent, but just happen to have a really hot girl who doesn't have the same clothing inhibitions we have in the real world (or are just hot enough to the point where a sweatshirt and sweatpants looks skimpy) or are just slightly risque' situations. Even when the situation is not intended to be innocent, it often comes off much cleaner and less nasty than "real" porn. Even seemingly "nasty" scenes in anime (hentai) and games are far toned down compared to "real" porn. Not saying those really nasty scenes as such exist in anime (hentai) and games, but they seem to be far less common.

The women in anime (hentai) and games look much better than the women in "regular" porn. Obviously this is the nature of a fantasy world.... Obviously they can't compete with this:

SFW.....but a wee bit awkward to explain, so look at your own risk.

Spoiler

http://www.sailormoonhentaiworld.com/images/hentai--aino-minako--bishoujo-senshi-sailor-moon--blonde-hair--blue-eyes--bow--breast-squeeze--breasts--castella--choker--earrings--hair-bow--huge-breasts--jewelry--long-hair--open-mouth--sailor-venus--smile--solo.jpg

But sometimes it feels like they aren't even trying.

Its also safer than "real" porn. Playing a video game or watching an anime and hit the wrong button? Probably just pause it or go back to the main menu. Press the wrong button while watching/looking at "real" porn? You're lucky if you don't wind up with spam for the rest of your life, endless pop-ups and a computer that flies around the room because its possessed by so many viruses.

Story. It might seem silly....but some of these animes (hentai) and games put a decent amount of effort into their stories beyond "Fuck ALL the things!".

Deniability. One can easily pass off Dead or Alive 5 or Cat Planet Cuties etc. as something harmless and tame or something else completely at the store or with their parents. The same can not be said for a copy "Titty Tits McGee".


Maybe I'm thinking about it too much. But you know what.....it was interesting, to say the least.

To answer your question the first thing you have to understand is that "porn" refers to something very specific. To be pornographic a work must be offensive, and without any redeeming value. This is why so few things are actually banned. What is called "porn" by most people is NOT true pornography but rather "adult entertainment material".

Something like "Dead Or Alive" will never be considered pornography becaause it has obvious redeeming merits in terms of it being a fighting game and standing well on those merits as a form of general entertainment. Not to mention the fact that it does have a story even if it's fairly obtuse and generally involves having to immerse yourself in the universe beyond what you see in the games themselves.

To be honest I think people who complain about "naughty boys and their porn" or whatever are just trying to get a rise out of people. To be honest I wouldn't even need the fingers on one hand (maybe not even one of the fingers come to think of it) to count the legitimate criticisms of adult entertainment material or claims on how it effects men or objectifies women in the last 15-20 years. It's a platform people jump on when they want a few minutes of fame and a platform. It's an easy position to "go through the motions" of for lulz. I mean all you have to do is look at Yaoi (pretty well defined here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/120166-10-Year-Old-Borrows-Steamy-Gay-Sex-Manga-From-Local-Library ) to see it's pretty much universal. Even complaints about rape in fiction are pretty much BS, especially when directed at men, because again within the context of fantasy it's kind of universal. Whether something is defined as "rapey" and perhaps dismissed as not fitting someone's tastes, or the result of some major outcry isn't the result of a real issue, but how much attention someone wants. In general the basic consensus is that fantasy is fantasy, for "adult entertainment" including the really dark stuff, to be a problem requires the consumer to be pretty heavily flawed to begin with, and chances are anything would have set them off eventually. If it wasn't so called "porn" it would have been the Teletubbies or other sanitized entertainment if that was all he had, because the person in question is just plain broken, the trappings of his eventual misfire are irrelevent as anything at hand will be used.


As far as the differance between live porn, and animated/drawn porn, it's entirely a matter of perspective. Not everyone finds everything to be a turn on. Anime and cartoon porn is highly stylized, and someone who isn't into those things to begin with is not likely to find works expressed that way to be paticularly appealing. If your into "Hentai" or whatever your pretty much part of a fringe. Like it or not the current dominante generation (The Baby Boomers still) were not raised with animation/comics/etc... being viewed as a valid form of entertainment for adults. As a result drawn pornography that is stylized that ay seems disturbing as they associate the style with children. As the Boomers pass on and Generation Y comes into it's own (Generation X was skipped) we'll probably see attitudes towards animation, sequential art, etc... change, including in terms of it as a form of sexual entertainment. Of course such change is very slow, so it's not like any of us are going to wake up and find people thinking hentai isn't bloody wierd compared to an old fashioned skin mag. It hasn't sunk into fringe things like adult entertainment yet, but you are starting to slowly see animation being a bit more accepted, it's just a very slow process as it involves something contrary to the attitudes of the generation still holding most of society's money and power structure. The 30-40 something Gen Xers who should be running things are the "lost generation", right now you literally have a lot of old men in their 60s and older from the previous generation keeping going with increased medical technology and holding the reins of power and defining what society is. When they croak it will be all about what Gen Y thinks and I think you'll see more radical changes than anyone is expecting because they will have grown from Gen X.

Also as a side point, people QQ about angst nowadays, but one thing you have to understand is that Generation X (back in the 1990s when most were younger especially) is the long generation. A generation knowing it didn't matter and was going to amount to nothing due to simple sociology. A lot of the employment problems and such right now are simply because you have an entire generation that grew up without the jobs and duties they were supposed to assume opening up as their parent's generation never stepped down due to increasing lifespans. Hence all the kids living with their parents, deadbeats, impotent rage, and a desire to matter any wa possible, even if through violence. The young angst of the past is mocked right now as Generation Y actually has a future overall, it's hard to get into the whole "doomed", or "emo" mentality of the 1990s and such when that perspective just doesn't apply to you. Just as we see a shift in the focus of youth entertainmnt with people say mocking 1990s comic characters for their angst, we're going to see a shift in what kinds of entertainment are popular. The generation that can make a huge mockery about the angst of 90s comic characters obviously read and care about comics in order to do so, the same applies to things like Cartoons and Anime.

 

[Shuguard]

Well yes. But not in the way you're hoping. Put your pants back on.

Jokes on you, my pants are already on my head.

But back to the topic. I'm not exactly getting what you are trying to say. Is it something to convey, justify, express, discuss?
I wouldn't exactly consider DoA as porn, I mostly see it as bikini shots and boob physics. Unless there's some form of penetration or nudity, it's probably just a young male's(or female for equal opportunities) fantasy.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

There is a huge desire "out there" to have gaming be seen as a very serious and worthy thing.

One class of things that are not generally seen as being serious and worthy are bikini models. Even if they fight each other, actually, especially if they fight each other and especially if mud is involved.

Problem solved. I have unravelled the gordian knot of why this is an issue.

 

[Souleks]

I think the term your looking for is Ecchi its basically erotic games and anime.

 

[Paragon Fury]

Well yes. But not in the way you're hoping. Put your pants back on.

Jokes on you, my pants are already on my head.

Well, you'll just have to put them back on your body.

 

[xshadowscreamx]

games,anime and porn, well i have come to the right place, now just add rock music and we have a perfect party... porn is best when theres a story.\, especially if its immorally challenging to watch.