Anita Sarkeesian states that sexism against men is impossible

Lightknight

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Anita Tweeted this last month and it does not appear to have been covered so I thought I'd bring it up for discussion:

https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/533445611543363585

[tweet t=http://twitter.com/femfreq/status/533445611543363585]

In case she ever decides to back down and delete it:
"There?s no such thing as sexism against men. That's because sexism is prejudice + power. Men are the dominant gender with power in society."

What she is trying to talk about is that because she views men as having the power in society that sexism against men doesn't exist if sexism is to be defined as power+gender-based prejudice. The implication being that women do no hold institutional power. This is an attempt to redefine a term in a way that prevents people from being able to use it if they were born male. The attempt to redefine it to rob male victims of sexism as being able to call it such should be seen as atrocious.

I find this to be terribly sexist. Implying that all women are powerless and have no control over government or society while all men are in power and have absolute control is not only stereotyping individuals but making the insane claim that gender-based hatred that we call sexism only exists if you were born one way. It is somewhat disgusting that this hasn't been covered in media, honestly. This is a significant step away from gender equality into misandry. This kind of sexism in all it's forms should be reported on and despised by civil society. This doesn't harm the cause of equality itself, but it should certainly tarnish her own personal reputation.

I've noticed other individuals begin to start inserting the "power" bit as being necessary to be sexist or racist. It's about as nonsensical as claiming that Hispanic individuals can't be racist against black individuals because they're not in power. Of course racially based hatred and gender based hatred can come from anyone of any race or gender. And members of all races and genders can absolutely have enough power to negatively impact others base on their prejudices. How bigoted to claim otherwise, seriously.

The attempt to redefine terms like sexism or racism to meet one's own condition is crazy. Sexism is not defined as one having power. It is "prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex." (google search: Sexism definition) Simple as that. If you are stereotyping, prejudiced for/against, or practicing discrimination towards an individual based on their sex, then you are sexist. You could be a female CEO of a massive corporation or some guy in a trailer park with no legs and still accomplish being a sexist bigot. Institutional sexism which does require power can be accomplished by anyone against anyone under which they have control. A female manager can choose not to hire a person because they're male just as easily as a male manager can do the opposite and both would be easy examples of institutions in which power+prejudice are accomplished.

What's more is that men commit sexism against other men. That is the most blatant contradiction for Anita. Some laws and regulations are absolutely in place to harm men. That's direct institutional power. There are also significant cultural/social stereotypes and prejudices that negatively impact real people's lives all the time.

Instances of Institutional Sexism and Social Sexism:
-Men are expected to be the one who pays for date nights even though women have full access to income now.
-In some countries (UK, for the most recent example) and certain industries, men ages 20-30 make less than their female counterparts without any explanation besides sexism. This is largely ignored because the disparity flips at older age ranges as other factors start to take effect.
-Men are commonly shown less compassion than females starting at an early age.
-A blind eye is frequently turned towards men who suffer from domestic violence regarding women who hit men while a spotlight is shone on men who hit women. (I have been in an abusive relationship where the girl would full-out punch me, knowing that even though I am immensely stronger than her that I would not strike back because of gender roles. It is not socially acceptable for me to acknowledge it or that it does hurt both emotionally and physically even though it may not hurt as much physically as a dude my size taking the swing)
-Men are expected to work longer hours, relocate more frequently, take on more dangerous assignments, in addition to keeping a smaller portion of their check due to common obligations (for example, I pay my household's bills out of my paycheck while my wife's paycheck is for spending and savings, this is a common practice in which males may not have as ready access to their partner's bank account as I do)
-Men are required to sign up for military draft and women are not.
-Men are expected to risk their lives in situations of confrontation or danger to protect others and are considered cowards if they fail to do so.
-Men have fewer scholarship opportunities than women to the point that women graduating with degrees now outweigh males graduating with degrees.
-Aside from just domestic violence, it is more socially acceptable for violence to occur against men than it is against women (For example, GTA 5 was not taken off the shelves of target and kmart because of violence against people, it was removed for violence against women even though GTA's story-based violence is almost entirely against men if not entirely so. This sends the message that Target and Kmart are ok with violence against men)
-Women get preferential treatment in custody hearings and divorce settlements.
-Males are expected to be taller, smarter, more athletic and make more money than his spouse and is thought less of when he fails in any of those areas.
-Males are conditioned to not admit weakness or express emotions.
-Males are significantly more likely to commit suicide than females (4 times more likely). Most of the reasons for this disparity are generally considered social pressures and expectations that place men at a disadvantage where seeking social support is concerned.
-Male on male violence is treated as a sport and men who don't participate in it are frequently looked down on by their peers.
-While males do suffer rape (particularly in prison), there is even more stigma towards males admitting it than females due to the additional societal demand of males not showing weakness.
-There are certain jobs that men are still looked down on as being feminine, very similar to jobs that women are culturally discouraged from taking. (I have a personal story to tell you about the time I made straight-As in premed before announcing that I was interested in becoming a Nurse for a few years before going full-doctor. It may be telling that I am now in computer sciences as to how that announcement turned out)
-Light forms of male subservience (helping others carry heavy objects, opening a door, etc) are seen as chivalrous/gentlemanly and not generally required to be reciprocated.
-Men who commit the same crime a woman commits will face harsher punishments.
-Males are expected to forgo basic comforts so that women can enjoy them (sitting down, going first in line or through a door, and various small but still existent things).

Sexism and Institutional Sexism do exist against men.
 

Thaluikhain

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As mentioned last time this came up here, she is very clearly talking about institutionalised sexism. Yes, she's having trouble expressing a complicated issue inside the confines of twitter.
 

madwarper

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Lightknight said:
Anita Tweeted this last month and it does not appear to have been covered so I thought I'd bring it up for discussion:
Bring what up for discussion?

She made a statement that is wrong. It's in the same vein that some have made that you can't be racist against whites, which is just as wrong. And, I'm forced to question the intelligence of anyone that makes such a statement.

However, I don't see any discussion value. "Someone on the internet said something stupid. In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet. Film at eleven."
 

one squirrel

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Lightknight said:
Anita Tweeted this last month and it does not appear to have been covered so I thought I'd bring it up for discussion:

https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/533445611543363585

[tweet t=http://twitter.com/femfreq/status/533445611543363585]

In case she ever decides to back down and delete it:
"There?s no such thing as sexism against men. That's because sexism is prejudice + power. Men are the dominant gender with power in society."

I find this to be terribly sexist. Implying that all women are powerless and all men are in power is not only stereotyping individuals but making the insane claim that gender-based hatred only exists if you were born one way. It is somewhat disgusting that this hasn't been covered in media, honestly. This is a significant step away from gender equality into misandry. This kind of sexism in all it's forms should be reported on and despised by civil society. This doesn't harm the cause of equality itself, but it should certainly tarnish her own personal reputation.

I've noticed other individuals begin to start inserting the "power" bit as being necessary to be sexist or racist. It's about as nonsensical as claiming that Hispanic individuals can't be racist against black individuals because they're not in power. Of course racially based hatred and gender based hatred can come from anyone of any race or gender. How bigoted to claim otherwise, seriously.
This prejudice + power thing has been going on for some time. It's just a way to marginalize some groups that could otherwise also be victims of sexism.

Wait a minute, I feel like there is something slightly off: Last time I checked, prejudice + power = racism. No, apperantly it's sexism. That means according to Anita, racism is sexism. If we follow that line of reasoning to it's proper end, that means men and women are different races! Now I am getting really exited, what will Anita teach us next?
 

SOCIALCONSTRUCT

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Lightknight said:
It isn't just Anita saying this, this is the consensus within feminism.

Lightknight said:
In case she ever decides to back down and delete it:
You could always take a screen shot and upload it to imgur or some similar service.
 

Queen Michael

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She's wrong. According to the Merriam-Webster, sexism is "unfair treatment of people because of their sex." At no point does it say it has to include power. I'm a feminist, but I'm a feminist who knows how to look things up in a dictionary.
 

EternallyBored

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This thread was stupid the first time, and it's still stupid now. It's the same dumb power politics redefinition of racism/sexism that has existed since the 80's, it holds some minor academic value on macro level studies, but sociology and humanities majors pushing it on the general public is still dumb.

Anita pushing the view does not make her nearly as terribly sexist as you think though, this redefinition of sexism still acknowledges that men can face bigotry, hatred, and discrimination, the entire concept is just substituting the concept of institutional or societal macro level sexism for being the only definition of sexism.

Seriously, dragging up this month old dead topic was a bad idea, and this thread is just going to die in flames like the last one, I can only hope this one dies faster.
 

Phasmal

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madwarper said:
However, I don't see any discussion value. "Someone on the internet said something stupid. In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet. Film at eleven."
I'm going to have to agree with this.

She's wrong. I think I can see the point she was trying to make, buried in there somewhere, but she quite clearly cocked it up.

`Woman says thing` isn't that intriguing, especially when pretty much everyone is agreed that what she said was clearly incorrect.
But I suppose we have to report on every minute detail of this woman's life.

I would be irritated at her, because I often find the things she said wrong and I dislike how she is made to dominate the discussion of gender when video games are involved. But then I remember that it's just the people who won't shut up about her that make her look so prominent. So she has my begrudging sympathy, I guess?

I don't even know any more.
 

Thaluikhain

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SOCIALCONSTRUCT said:
It isn't just Anita saying this, this is the consensus within feminism.
Uh, no. Perhaps certain elements of it, but feminism (as a whole) has little in the way of consensus about anything.
 

Lightknight

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thaluikhain said:
As mentioned last time this came up here, she is very clearly talking about institutionalised sexism. Yes, she's having trouble expressing a complicated issue inside the confines of twitter.
Not what she said. She redefined sexism as requiring power. She said there's no such thing as sexism against men.

You can try to walk it back and maybe she tried to walk it back. But she said that it can't happen against men. That's not institutional, that's broad and sexist. Even institutionally, as Topaz Fusion stated there are absolutely institutional scenarios today already where it is specifically in place. Additionally, there are all kinds of micro-environments where sexism or racism is completely institutionalized. I once worked in an environment where the employees hired were about 85% Black or Hispanic and over 90% female. That was an institutionalized sexist and racist environment.

So it doesn't make sense to wave her off as just having trouble talking about "institutional sexism". At no turn does it make sense and that isn't what she said.
 

JoJo

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SOCIALCONSTRUCT said:
It isn't just Anita saying this, this is the consensus within feminism.
Says who? I'm a feminist and I don't agree with this. As far as I know it's just a definition some American sociologists thought up that was then adopted by the usual suspects on Tumblr. I'm not a fan of this definition as it's very easy to misinterpret as saying that discrimination against the majority group is okay and talking about power dynamics muddies the water when it's a lot easier to just say that discrimination because of sex or gender is wrong, period. The real world just isn't that black and white.
 

Barbas

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That was on the 15th of November. It's wrong. I think plenty of people are aware of it. Please don't bring it up again on the 8th of December when we've all moved on.

All you did was point out a statement from ignorance and give us your opinion on it. There's nothing to discuss. I could do the same thing, once a day for the remainder of the year, with a copy of The Daily Mail.

SOCIALCONSTRUCT said:
Lightknight said:
It isn't just Anita saying this, this is the consensus within feminism.
Which feminism? Or do I not want to know what you think feminism is?

I was once told the consensus among Republicans was that gays should be rounded up and put into camps, but I think the person who told me that was uninformed about Republicans.
 

EternallyBored

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SOCIALCONSTRUCT said:
Lightknight said:
It isn't just Anita saying this, this is the consensus within feminism.

Lightknight said:
In case she ever decides to back down and delete it:
You could always take a screen shot and upload it to imgur or some similar service.
Oh for fu-, no it is not the consensus within feminism, not even close, it is a specific branch of power politics that crops up in academic feminism from time to time since the 80's, and it is fiercely criticized by academic feminists for the same period of time. It is a part of some feminist philosophies, just like TERF's are, but it is no where near a consensus, it isn't even a clear part of the philosophy and many feminists have stood firmly against the concept for decades. The entire power politics system is not even close to unchallenged within modern feminist theory, and there is still heated academic debate about its validity, especially within the last 5 years as it has gained supporters and detractors on both sides of the debate.
 

NemotheElvenPanda

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And feminists and her supporters wonder why so many people have an issue with Anita. Sure, you can talk about institutionalized sexism, but even then that has a negative impact on men vis-a-vis men's conviction rates versus' women's conviction rates alongside work mortality, health, homelessness, and poverty rates, domestic court decisions and paternity laws, how there are no where near as much resources for male victims of rape or abuse if they even get that kind of attention at all. Call it a result of the patriarchy or whatever word you use to describe an unequal society, but sexism does exist against men. It may not be as prominent or as pervasive on men as it is with women, but it is a reality lots of guys deal with. Sexism is not a cut and dry issue. If affects literally everyone and different ways that all deserve attention. Unfortunately all this will do is bring asshole MRAs and asshole Tumblrites out of their basements and muddle the issue even further. Obviously this isn't an attitude shared by all or even most feminists, but it is one you hear A LOT on college campuses.
 

Lightknight

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madwarper said:
Lightknight said:
Anita Tweeted this last month and it does not appear to have been covered so I thought I'd bring it up for discussion:
Bring what up for discussion?

She made a statement that is wrong. It's in the same vein that some have made that you can't be racist against whites, which is just as wrong. And, I'm forced to question the intelligence of anyone that makes such a statement.

However, I don't see any discussion value. "Someone on the internet said something stupid. In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet. Film at eleven."
A person who makes a living fighting for gender equality is making statements that are decidedly sexist. This is regular news and I wanted to see how some people would defend her statement here. Surely there are people who believe this and I'd like to see how they can justify being OK with bigotry.

thaluikhain said:
SOCIALCONSTRUCT said:
It isn't just Anita saying this, this is the consensus within feminism.
Uh, no. Perhaps certain elements of it, but feminism (as a whole) has little in the way of consensus about anything.
Exactly, feminists come in all sorts and sizes and sexes. A lot of feminists would back the heck away from someone making sexist comments like this one because it is actually sexism against both men and women to imply that women can't obtain power in society in meaningful ways. Feminism done right really is just about equality. Not about putting men down to put women up. You will run into bad eggs in any cause you go to. I'm sure Ghandi's peaceful sit-ins had a few pick pockets in their midst.

Queen Michael said:
She's wrong. According to the Merriam-Webster, sexism is "unfair treatment of people because of their sex." At no point does it say it has to include power. I'm a feminist, but I'm a feminist who knows how to look things up in a dictionary.
Exactly, this should not be seen as any kind of detraction of the validity of feminism but this should certainly be looked at as an example of someone going too far in the name of a good cause.

People should honestly be mad about this. Like Donald Sterling's insane racist comments, this should be entirely unacceptable.
 

WeepingAngels

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So many people are thread hating. If you don't want to discuss this, then don't but clearly some people are invested in not letting anything be discussed that might make Anita look bad.

I think that's telling.

She said what she said, trying to spin it into something more acceptable just shows your damn bias!
 

The Lunatic

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This is why people take issue with people like Anita and others commonly refereed to as "Third Wave Feminists".

It's an incredibly toxic statement that adds nothing more than to prove how out of touch this is with any form of humanity.
 

Lightknight

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WeepingAngels said:
So many people are thread hating. If you don't want to discuss this, then don't but clearly some people are invested in not letting anything be discussed that might make Anita look bad.

I think that's telling.

She said what she said, trying to spin it into something more acceptable just shows your damn bias!
I think it is important for us to at least consider that she could have mentioned something else. But her wording is pretty damning to say the least. There is no easy way to extrapolate a positive message it could mean and even through the most arduous of hurdles we still see sexism on her part. It's pretty bad.