Another reason P2P hosted games are Trouble !!

[Captain_Caveman]

Yes, yes, I'm sure most of you have heard the outcry of the PC gaming community's concern over Modern Warfare 2's use of P2P (Peer 2 Peer) hosted games. Effectively making one player run the server and the game at the same time.

This is done supposedly by running quick tests to see what each person's upload speed is.

However, the problem with this is that home internet connections do not have constantly rated speeds. They fluctuate & available bandwidth can change dramatically, especially if more than one person uses the connection at a time, or decides to use the connection after a game starts. Since there is no option to choose who hosts the game there is no way to avoid becoming the host, even if you know ahead of time you wont be able to host it w/o incurring lag on everybody.

Another recent example comes in the way of Comcast's new throttling system. If they detect you're using close to your upload or download capacity for more than 15 mins they will reduce it to 1/2 speed until your internet activity slows significantly for 15 mins.
see: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1050238/comcast-internet-throttling-running

Now imagine this, you join a game because IW.NET (or any P2P hosted game) determined a host. This host has enough bandwidth to support a multiplayer match, however during the match their ISP (internet service provider) throttles the bandwidth and suddenly they don't have enough bandwidth to support the game.
So everybody's accuracy gets screwed up, people start rubberbanding, people start getting DCed, etc...

With dedicated servers this would never be the case.

What do you all think? Are game companies pushing multiplayer in the wrong direction in the name of saving themselves $ to boost their profits?

 

[Ocelot GT]

Is Modern Warfare 2 the only PC game doing this?

There's some other PC games with P2P matchmaking but DoW 2 and Borderlands max out at 4 and 6 players so it's not as big an issue. Although I get horrendous lag in Borderlands with anything more than 3 players, 2 players is perfect. So I'm afraid MW2 MP for me will be unavailable, despite IW claiming it now lets ppl play their game :<

Curse my Australian internet.

 

[Fenring]

Is Modern Warfare 2 the only PC game doing this?

Rage will be, but it'll probably have something where you can say you don't want to host or something.

 

[Dys]

The P2P system isn't that huge of an issue if it's given the same support it is on the console counterparts, console gamers get by fine using it (though xbox live is beyond shit, PSN seems usable on my connection). The real problem is who's going to fund it? There's no sony or microsoft wanting the P2P service to be a sucess on the PC. It can be done well. Though I'm yet to play a PC P2P or xbox live game that isn't atrocious, PSN gets off light because I've only played a few games and they aren't ever huge multiplayer maps. I suppose best case scenario only Australia gets horribly fucked by this 'inititive', and we're not that big of a market so uhh, fuck us?

I'm far more worried about the emerging trend of 'no lan' and, in MW2s case, 'no console'. The no console thing especially ruins that game as computers are not consoles and custom settings are often necissary.

*edit* Apparently I'm confusing people. When I say "computers are not consoles and custom settings are often necissary" what I mean is, the removal of the option to alter game settings via console (the ` button menu that allows the input of various commands) directly lessons the experience for PC gamers. Not all PCs are born equal and as such they each have different needs and tweaks. While all console gamers are garunteed a playable experience straight out of the box, PC gamers are not. I'll skim right past all the various reasons why effects or settings may create problems on a PC and skip right to the point, if light setting 1B is creating a visual glitch, it makes sense that we be able to turn it off. I'm well aware that the inclusion of console commands adds extra work(however little) for the devs, but if they are not prepared to release the game as it should be on the PC, they shouldn't at all. The PC is a difficult platform to work with, if you aren't up to the challenge then do what so many other devs have done in the past, and not work with it.

 

[Kollega]

Seriously,people. Dedicated servers are better for PC. It's because they're more flexible. And as we know,main benefit and drawback of the PC in many regards is it's diversity.

The no console thing especially ruins that game as computers are not consoles and custom settings are often necissary.

What does that mean?

 

[Cherry Cola]

God, not another thread complaining about this...

We get it, p2p hosted games suck compared to dedicated servers, this is like the tenth thread about this I've seen this month.

 

[RanD00M]

The no console thing especially ruins that game as computers are not consoles and custom settings are often necissary.

I´m sorry but...WHAT?

 

[Worgen]

even with just a few ppl lag can get really annoying, in dow2 its annoying but since its an rts its still playable but when someone decides to try hosting l4d its an unplayable mess, pc games really benefit from having dedicated servers, altho on the plus side all this weirdness has made me look more at bad company 2 and so far that one looks pretty wicked

 

[shadow skill]

This whole thing has little to do with the platform this mechanism is employed on and everything to do with the type of game. Any game that requires precise timing like FPS' or fighting games is going to suck with P2P. Most Ps3 exclusive shooters use dedicated servers, the exception that jumps out at me is Uncharted 2 but that is a game with a relatively small number of players. (About the size of L4D I think.) Sony at least seems to understand that if you want anything above ten players to work (Talking FPS here.) you need to have servers to manage the connections.

 

[Captain_Caveman]

The P2P system isn't that huge of an issue if it's given the same support it is on the console counterparts, console gamers get by fine using it (though xbox live is beyond shit, PSN seems usable on my connection). The real problem is who's going to fund it? There's no sony or microsoft wanting the P2P service to be a sucess on the PC. It can be done well....

i agree w/ a lot of what you said but this i don't. it's not a matter of just how well it can match people. XBL probably has the most advanced P2P matchmaking taking even ISP & locale into account. But, that still cant fix the problem of if you wanted to play w/ a friend{s} who lived in another state, used a different ISP, etc..

And it still doesn't solve the problem of ISP's throttling peoples upload once they start hosting a game.

Take for the Comcast example in my OP. Comcast will reduce your upload by 1/2 [http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1050238/comcast-internet-throttling-running], half the speed that the matchmaking service rated you for when it picked you for host. That can have devastating effects on the QoS (Quality of Service [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality_of_service]) of peoples connections and play havoc w/ a multiplayer game.

 

[Arbitrary Cidin]

Oh boy, PC gamers, I feel so bad for you. Why, little old me wouldn't know what that's like on my Xbox 360, would I? Stop acting spoiled and try to focus more on the aspects of gaming, not bandwidth and lag. I've never played a single game with dedicated servers in my life, and I'm a happy multiplayer gamer.

 

[shadow skill]

Oh boy, PC gamers, I feel so bad for you. Why, little old me wouldn't know what that's like on my Xbox 360, would I? Stop acting spoiled and try to focus more on the aspects of gaming, not bandwidth and lag. I've never played a single game with dedicated servers in my life, and I'm a happy multiplayer gamer.

Stop acting like a jackass because you can't see how a game filled with lag might put a damper on any fun to be had.

 

[Wicky_42]

Oh boy, PC gamers, I feel so bad for you. Why, little old me wouldn't know what that's like on my Xbox 360, would I? Stop acting spoiled and try to focus more on the aspects of gaming, not bandwidth and lag. I've never played a single game with dedicated servers in my life, and I'm a happy multiplayer gamer.

Hah, because Pc gamers are used to fast servers they should suck it up and downgrade to console p2p gaming because *you're* used to it?! Fuck off, lol.

 

[TPiddy]

Seriously,people. Dedicated servers are better for PC. It's because they're more flexible. And as we know,main benefit and drawback of the PC in many regards is it's diversity.

The no console thing especially ruins that game as computers are not consoles and custom settings are often necissary.

What does that mean?

PC Gamers, you reap what you sow. The removal of dedicated servers was in large part due to the huge amount of piracy going on.

 

[shadow skill]

Seriously,people. Dedicated servers are better for PC. It's because they're more flexible. And as we know,main benefit and drawback of the PC in many regards is it's diversity.

The no console thing especially ruins that game as computers are not consoles and custom settings are often necissary.

What does that mean?

PC Gamers, you reap what you sow. The removal of dedicated servers was in large part due to the huge amount of piracy going on.

That makes sense. Really, that's like saying you should rape your girlfriend or boyfriend because they don't put out as often as you'd like. How would the removal of dedicated servers affect piracy? I would imagine that most people who would pirate the game would not play it online because of the fact that they pirated it. Explain to me how removing a feature that is quite integral to a good experience is supposed to make people buy this particular product more?

 

[TPiddy]

PC Gamers, you reap what you sow. The removal of dedicated servers was in large part due to the huge amount of piracy going on.

That makes sense. Really, that's like saying you should rape your girlfriend or boyfriend because they don't put out as often as you'd like. How would the removal of dedicated servers affect piracy? I would imagine that most people who would pirate the game would not play it online because of the fact that they pirated it. Explain to me how removing a feature that is quite integral to a good experience is supposed to make people buy this particular product more?

Actually, your analogy is incorrect in this case. The removal of dedicated servers was a result of piracy, and an attempt to cut down on piracy. Apparently having dedicated servers makes the game easier to pirate and mod and cheat on and that's what led to the removal of them. So PC owners reap what they sow. To modify your analogy to fit this case, it would be like your girlfriend refusing to give you any more head because you raped her, and not the other way around.

 

[Captain_Caveman]

PC Gamers, you reap what you sow. The removal of dedicated servers was in large part due to the huge amount of piracy going on.

That makes sense. Really, that's like saying you should rape your girlfriend or boyfriend because they don't put out as often as you'd like. How would the removal of dedicated servers affect piracy? I would imagine that most people who would pirate the game would not play it online because of the fact that they pirated it. Explain to me how removing a feature that is quite integral to a good experience is supposed to make people buy this particular product more?

Actually, your analogy is incorrect in this case. The removal of dedicated servers was a result of piracy, and an attempt to cut down on piracy. Apparently having dedicated servers makes the game easier to pirate and mod and cheat on and that's what led to the removal of them. So PC owners reap what they sow. To modify your analogy to fit this case, it would be like your girlfriend refusing to give you any more head because you raped her, and not the other way around.

WRONG!!
P2P doesn't prevent piracy. Log In servers do. They could have accomplished the same thing w/ a log in system, like for example the one BF2 has had for 4+ years.

Or, another example. Look at Steam. Steam games use dedicated servers. But they have authetication. Multiplayer can't be played on pirated Steam games.