Anyone else hate SRPG Efficiency grinding?

[Colt47]

Kind of hard to describe it, but I ran into this when I got Valkyria Chronicles (great game, by the way). Essentially, you come across a guide to how to get all the best stats or how to get the absolute best rank, and then the game turns into a routine of following specifically laid out strategies and timed events. Heck, I think Persona 3 Portable ended up having the same efficiency grind issue as well, and that is more of a classic RPG with a relationship sim tagged in.

People usually say if it makes the game not enjoyable don't follow the guide, but it's sort of like opening the flood gates and letting the water out, and then having someone say just close the gate and you wont get wet. o o;

 

[Orange12345]

I just played the game how I wanted, it's a strategy game the fun is figuring out a way to accomplish things on your own with your own soldiers and tactics

 

[The Eupho Guy_v1legacy]

Yeah I do, although I'm not sure Persona 3 Portable has it.

Disgaea 2 was pretty bad for it, especially if you wanted level 200 items, which was a real chore. As there were no level spheres (Which were introduced in Disgaea 3), the only way to earn the 100 bonus levels you needed was to go into every available bonus room and hope you got an event that granted a few bonus levels each. Didn't the right event? Reset the game and try again. Bonus room didn't appear? Reset the game and try again. Disgaea 3 made it easier with the level spheres and reverse pirating, but then Disgaea 4 raised the item level cap to 300. ._.

Mind you I don't mind normal grinding. My first ending on the Vita port of Disgaea 3 was the one you get for defeating the map Strongest Overlord for the second time before chapter 4, I think. By the end of chapter 3 I had unlocked the Hall of Ordeals (generally, the Ordeals maps are used for post-game grinding, the enemies start at around level 250. Chapter 3 enemies are around level 15 or 20) and was grinding Ordeals 4 to complete the class special move list.

 

[Colt47]

Yeah I do, although I'm not sure Persona 3 Portable has it.

Disgaea 2 was pretty bad for it, especially if you wanted level 200 items, which was a real chore. As there were no level spheres (Which were introduced in Disgaea 3), the only way to earn the 100 bonus levels you needed was to go into every available bonus room and hope you got an event that granted a few bonus levels each. Didn't the right event? Reset the game and try again. Bonus room didn't appear? Reset the game and try again. Disgaea 3 made it easier with the level spheres and reverse pirating, but then Disgaea 4 raised the item level cap to 300. ._.

Mind you I don't mind normal grinding. My first ending on the Vita port of Disgaea 3 was the one you get for defeating the map Strongest Overlord for the second time before chapter 4, I think. By the end of chapter 3 I had unlocked the Hall of Ordeals (generally, the Ordeals maps are used for post-game grinding, the enemies start at around level 250. Chapter 3 enemies are around level 15 or 20) and was grinding Ordeals 4 to complete the class special move list.

Yeah, I've heard that before about Disgaea 2 which was why I never ended up buying the game. Persona 3 Portable kind of has it, though the regiment doesn't involving grinding items as much as timing and grinding the right relationships in the correct order in order to get access to the best persona. It's so bad you basically don't have any time to do what you want outside of the regiment until a good ways later into the game. Fire Emblem is mostly dealing with when to promote people and who to use over others in order to maximize experience and stats, while Valkyria Chronicles it's largely following specific movement patterns and reloading the game until a shot actually hits.

 

[The Eupho Guy_v1legacy]

Yeah I do, although I'm not sure Persona 3 Portable has it.

Disgaea 2 was pretty bad for it, especially if you wanted level 200 items, which was a real chore. As there were no level spheres (Which were introduced in Disgaea 3), the only way to earn the 100 bonus levels you needed was to go into every available bonus room and hope you got an event that granted a few bonus levels each. Didn't the right event? Reset the game and try again. Bonus room didn't appear? Reset the game and try again. Disgaea 3 made it easier with the level spheres and reverse pirating, but then Disgaea 4 raised the item level cap to 300. ._.

Mind you I don't mind normal grinding. My first ending on the Vita port of Disgaea 3 was the one you get for defeating the map Strongest Overlord for the second time before chapter 4, I think. By the end of chapter 3 I had unlocked the Hall of Ordeals (generally, the Ordeals maps are used for post-game grinding, the enemies start at around level 250. Chapter 3 enemies are around level 15 or 20) and was grinding Ordeals 4 to complete the class special move list.

Yeah, I've heard that before about Disgaea 2 which was why I never ended up buying the game. Persona 3 Portable kind of has it, though the regiment doesn't involving grinding items as much as timing and grinding the right relationships in the correct order in order to get access to the best persona. It's so bad you basically don't have any time to do what you want outside of the regiment until a good ways later into the game. Fire Emblem is mostly dealing with when to promote people and who to use over others in order to maximize experience and stats, while Valkyria Chronicles it's largely following specific movement patterns and reloading the game until a shot actually hits.

Oh, that. I forgot about trying to get that persona on the first cycle in P3P. I've always done that on the second cycle and beyond, when I don't have to worry about raising stats, which gives me a little bit more freedom to play the game how I want to and still max out s-links.

 

[TrevHead]

Haven't played VC 1 or played with a guide but I recently started playing VC 2 and grinding for certificates burnt me off the game that I shelved it to play something else, The fact that they randomly drop makes it all the worse.

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Yeah I do, although I'm not sure Persona 3 Portable has it.

Disgaea 2 was pretty bad for it, especially if you wanted level 200 items, which was a real chore. As there were no level spheres (Which were introduced in Disgaea 3), the only way to earn the 100 bonus levels you needed was to go into every available bonus room and hope you got an event that granted a few bonus levels each. Didn't the right event? Reset the game and try again. Bonus room didn't appear? Reset the game and try again. Disgaea 3 made it easier with the level spheres and reverse pirating, but then Disgaea 4 raised the item level cap to 300. ._.

Mind you I don't mind normal grinding. My first ending on the Vita port of Disgaea 3 was the one you get for defeating the map Strongest Overlord for the second time before chapter 4, I think. By the end of chapter 3 I had unlocked the Hall of Ordeals (generally, the Ordeals maps are used for post-game grinding, the enemies start at around level 250. Chapter 3 enemies are around level 15 or 20) and was grinding Ordeals 4 to complete the class special move list.

Yeah, I've heard that before about Disgaea 2 which was why I never ended up buying the game. Persona 3 Portable kind of has it, though the regiment doesn't involving grinding items as much as timing and grinding the right relationships in the correct order in order to get access to the best persona. It's so bad you basically don't have any time to do what you want outside of the regiment until a good ways later into the game. Fire Emblem is mostly dealing with when to promote people and who to use over others in order to maximize experience and stats, while Valkyria Chronicles it's largely following specific movement patterns and reloading the game until a shot actually hits.

Keep in mind, in Disgaea 2 you could still do everything with less than perfect equipment. The grinding is something most people do only to see how high they can get the damage to be.

Also, as a rule, I'd say to play the game without any guide the first time (don't even look for any, unless you get stuck), then when you want to play it again, look at a guide.

 

[Something Amyss]

Depends on how necessary the best grades/ranks/items are.

If it's mandatory to do well, it kills the game for me.

Otherwise...meh.

 

[Colt47]

Also, as a rule, I'd say to play the game without any guide the first time (don't even look for any, unless you get stuck), then when you want to play it again, look at a guide.

Yeah, it's a good rule to have. I think it's more a problem with older titles, since when you go out to find reviews if the game is worth it the search results turn into a few reviews with a mine field of "player suggestions" and "game strategies". Especially games like Persona 3 and 4, which not only have guides, but manga and anime adaptations.

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Also, as a rule, I'd say to play the game without any guide the first time (don't even look for any, unless you get stuck), then when you want to play it again, look at a guide.

Yeah, it's a good rule to have. I think it's more a problem with older titles, since when you go out to find reviews if the game is worth it the search results turn into a few reviews with a mine field of "player suggestions" and "game strategies". Especially games like Persona 3 and 4, which not only have guides, but manga and anime adaptations.

I don't know, I think it's awesome if the side material (in your example, anime and manga) actually inspires the player to try something they wouldn't otherwise have thought of (extra bonus points if it works!). And I doubt they can spoil much apart from the story, as they probably don't cover game mechanics in those, so they don't count as guides.

 

[Colt47]

Also, as a rule, I'd say to play the game without any guide the first time (don't even look for any, unless you get stuck), then when you want to play it again, look at a guide.

Yeah, it's a good rule to have. I think it's more a problem with older titles, since when you go out to find reviews if the game is worth it the search results turn into a few reviews with a mine field of "player suggestions" and "game strategies". Especially games like Persona 3 and 4, which not only have guides, but manga and anime adaptations.

I don't know, I think it's awesome if the side material (in your example, anime and manga) actually inspires the player to try something they wouldn't otherwise have thought of (extra bonus points if it works!). And I doubt they can spoil much apart from the story, as they probably don't cover game mechanics in those, so they don't count as guides.

It's more so that the property is so popular it's basically impossible to avoid spoilers. =p

 

[theultimateend]

Yeah I do, although I'm not sure Persona 3 Portable has it.

Disgaea 2 was pretty bad for it, especially if you wanted level 200 items, which was a real chore. As there were no level spheres (Which were introduced in Disgaea 3), the only way to earn the 100 bonus levels you needed was to go into every available bonus room and hope you got an event that granted a few bonus levels each. Didn't the right event? Reset the game and try again. Bonus room didn't appear? Reset the game and try again. Disgaea 3 made it easier with the level spheres and reverse pirating, but then Disgaea 4 raised the item level cap to 300. ._.

Mind you I don't mind normal grinding. My first ending on the Vita port of Disgaea 3 was the one you get for defeating the map Strongest Overlord for the second time before chapter 4, I think. By the end of chapter 3 I had unlocked the Hall of Ordeals (generally, the Ordeals maps are used for post-game grinding, the enemies start at around level 250. Chapter 3 enemies are around level 15 or 20) and was grinding Ordeals 4 to complete the class special move list.

Maxing out a piece of gear in Disgaea 4 is SO fast.

Similarly you can hit level 9999 in Disgaea games extremely fast.

Level 9999 in 5-10 minutes of light grinding Ordeals.

 

[The Eupho Guy_v1legacy]

Yeah I do, although I'm not sure Persona 3 Portable has it.

Disgaea 2 was pretty bad for it, especially if you wanted level 200 items, which was a real chore. As there were no level spheres (Which were introduced in Disgaea 3), the only way to earn the 100 bonus levels you needed was to go into every available bonus room and hope you got an event that granted a few bonus levels each. Didn't the right event? Reset the game and try again. Bonus room didn't appear? Reset the game and try again. Disgaea 3 made it easier with the level spheres and reverse pirating, but then Disgaea 4 raised the item level cap to 300. ._.

Mind you I don't mind normal grinding. My first ending on the Vita port of Disgaea 3 was the one you get for defeating the map Strongest Overlord for the second time before chapter 4, I think. By the end of chapter 3 I had unlocked the Hall of Ordeals (generally, the Ordeals maps are used for post-game grinding, the enemies start at around level 250. Chapter 3 enemies are around level 15 or 20) and was grinding Ordeals 4 to complete the class special move list.

Maxing out a piece of gear in Disgaea 4 is SO fast.

Similarly you can hit level 9999 in Disgaea games extremely fast.

Level 9999 in 5-10 minutes of light grinding Ordeals.

I actually never tried to max out weapons in Disgaea 4. Personally I found the item world to be a bit too... busy? The item world has always been a bit hit and miss for me.

Also, I know you can power level Ordeals. It works even better in the Land of Carnage, where you can go from level 1 to mid 5000's in one map.

 

[piinyouri]

I did this with Makai Kingdoms.
I grinded on the last level of the story mode 1000 times.
No, I know, because it kept track in the corner of the screen.

Grind grind grind that level to get enough whatthefuckeveritwas to make food dungeons so that I can actually level up.
A few levels.

Holy shit how did I ever play that game.

OT: No, I would NEVER do that shit again.

 

[Daaaah Whoosh]

I used to play EVE Online by the seat of my pants, selling items at whatever station I found myself in and going into missions with my favorite guns and ammo. Then I realized everyone else used a myriad of wikis and spreadsheets to calculate the best places to sell things, the best things to sell, and the best things to take into any mission. It kind of killed the game for me, because there was no longer a sense of exploration and discovery. Everything had been analyzed and assigned a series of numbers, and everyone else was just plugging them into the variables and hitting execute. Strangely enough, I was still addicted to EVE online, and only a subscription renewal error saved me from utter destruction.

 

[Colt47]

I used to play EVE Online by the seat of my pants, selling items at whatever station I found myself in and going into missions with my favorite guns and ammo. Then I realized everyone else used a myriad of wikis and spreadsheets to calculate the best places to sell things, the best things to sell, and the best things to take into any mission. It kind of killed the game for me, because there was no longer a sense of exploration and discovery. Everything had been analyzed and assigned a series of numbers, and everyone else was just plugging them into the variables and hitting execute. Strangely enough, I was still addicted to EVE online, and only a subscription renewal error saved me from utter destruction.

Ironically there isn't much of a difference between that and the behavior at end game raiding in World of Warcraft. Every class is a giant spread sheet of numbers and abilities, and there is only one correct way to deal damage with each damage dealing job. Tanks have Threat per Second, and the ones with the most flexibility are healers. In fact, I'd argue WoW is largely to blame for expounding the feeling of having to do things the best way possible in other RPGs, which significantly reduces the fun factor in those other titles as well.

 

[Trek1701a]

In SRPGs, I just play the strategies that I think will work. If I miss an item or don't get the best grade, then I don't. To me, if a game is made, such that, you can't go through the game without getting the best items/times/grades, then there is problem with the game. People aren't perfect. Anyway, a lot of the time to get the best numbers you have to do things (take a out of the way route, go through the enemy instead of kill them (especially when the game is specifically made to reward you for # of enemies killed), etc.) that are not even out of the box thinking, let alone conventional. If the ability to go back and replay the mission later exists, maybe I would, but otherwise, I just keep going.

 

[Colt47]

In SRPGs, I just play the strategies that I think will work. If I miss an item or don't get the best grade, then I don't. To me, if a game is made, such that, you can't go through the game without getting the best items/times/grades, then there is problem with the game. People aren't perfect. Anyway, a lot of the time to get the best numbers you have to do things (take a out of the way route, go through the enemy instead of kill them (especially when the game is specifically made to reward you for # of enemies killed), etc.) that are not even out of the box thinking, let alone conventional. If the ability to go back and replay the mission later exists, maybe I would, but otherwise, I just keep going.

I actually wish they would have the mission grading scale a feature of "New Game +" rather than a feature of the first play through, and completely detach it from any key decision points in games. This is especially true if the game has some kind of "Best End" scenario. Can't say I've ever been happy when a game dangles a good end in front of you and then says, "all you need is all S ranks in every mission!"